"Cereal Killer" grain mill

Yakima 728
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@Solbes: Great post. Those pics are really helpful. Do those tripod legs help the base fit over a bucket, or something?
 
Yup they are for helping keep it seated on a bucket or bowl. For me it fits pretty well with a large plastic bowl that I already have. Two legs are in and one is just out.
 
What I wrote to the place I bought mine.... I'm not impressed.

I gotta tell you that I'm not all that impressed with the Cereal Killer Grain Mill. It was cheap and I guess you get what you pay for.
Here's a list of the issues I've noticed.

- Crank handle is too short. It takes a good bit of torque to pull the grain thru the rollers and this handle is just not long enough to do it. You can't keep any momentum going when your hand is traveling such a small diameter ark. Have you guys tried it? Now I realize most are using a drill or a motor to spin the roller. But the handle does not work so why include it. The customer is paying for it and it is totally useless.

- Play or slop in the bushings. I'd say there is .005 to .010" clearance between the bushing ID and the roller shaft OD. So you set the clearance with a feeler gage and what happens when the grain goes thru? It forces the roller out ward increasing the gap. The Machining quality is poor at best. The finish on the roller spindles (part that rides in the brass bushings) is coarse not polished like it should be. This will cause bushing wear and the bushing / roller slop (gap) will only increase with use. Poor Machining!

- Hopper attachment is weak. It is attached with two small machine screws into two half slots in the tin. The clamping force provided by the two small screws is low and any for or aft force on the hopper causes the hopper to break free from the mill spilling the hopper contents onto the floor.

In it's "as made" condition this grain mill is "rough". Obviously the "manufacturer" did little to no testing with it. It looks like he just copied someone else's design and went ahead with it thinking his design was good. If he would have put this mill in the hands of some brewers he would have discovered it's short comings.
 
nckellys said:
What I wrote to the place I bought mine.... I'm not impressed.

I gotta tell you that I'm not all that impressed with the Cereal Killer Grain Mill. It was cheap and I guess you get what you pay for.
Here's a list of the issues I've noticed.

- Crank handle is too short. It takes a good bit of torque to pull the grain thru the rollers and this handle is just not long enough to do it. You can't keep any momentum going when your hand is traveling such a small diameter ark. Have you guys tried it? Now I realize most are using a drill or a motor to spin the roller. But the handle does not work so why include it. The customer is paying for it and it is totally useless.

- Play or slop in the bushings. I'd say there is .005 to .010" clearance between the bushing ID and the roller shaft OD. So you set the clearance with a feeler gage and what happens when the grain goes thru? It forces the roller out ward increasing the gap. The Machining quality is poor at best. The finish on the roller spindles (part that rides in the brass bushings) is coarse not polished like it should be. This will cause bushing wear and the bushing / roller slop (gap) will only increase with use. Poor Machining!

- Hopper attachment is weak. It is attached with two small machine screws into two half slots in the tin. The clamping force provided by the two small screws is low and any for or aft force on the hopper causes the hopper to break free from the mill spilling the hopper contents onto the floor.

In it's "as made" condition this grain mill is "rough". Obviously the "manufacturer" did little to no testing with it. It looks like he just copied someone else's design and went ahead with it thinking his design was good. If he would have put this mill in the hands of some brewers he would have discovered it's short comings.
Click to expand...

good review...do yourself a favor and try a JSP maltmill, i have been using one for 15 years and it has never failed me....even though the developer is not very good at marketing I think its one of the best mills out there for the money....our homebrew club recently did a bulk buy on these and everyone is happy....also dont bother with the adjustable one, the non-adjustable one works just fine for any grain:
MaltMill, grain mill
 
nckellys said:
What I wrote to the place I bought mine.... I'm not impressed.

I gotta tell you that I'm not all that impressed with the Cereal Killer Grain Mill. It was cheap and I guess you get what you pay for.
Here's a list of the issues I've noticed.

- Crank handle is too short. It takes a good bit of torque to pull the grain thru the rollers and this handle is just not long enough to do it. You can't keep any momentum going when your hand is traveling such a small diameter ark. Have you guys tried it? Now I realize most are using a drill or a motor to spin the roller. But the handle does not work so why include it. The customer is paying for it and it is totally useless.

- Play or slop in the bushings. I'd say there is .005 to .010" clearance between the bushing ID and the roller shaft OD. So you set the clearance with a feeler gage and what happens when the grain goes thru? It forces the roller out ward increasing the gap. The Machining quality is poor at best. The finish on the roller spindles (part that rides in the brass bushings) is coarse not polished like it should be. This will cause bushing wear and the bushing / roller slop (gap) will only increase with use. Poor Machining!

- Hopper attachment is weak. It is attached with two small machine screws into two half slots in the tin. The clamping force provided by the two small screws is low and any for or aft force on the hopper causes the hopper to break free from the mill spilling the hopper contents onto the floor.

In it's "as made" condition this grain mill is "rough". Obviously the "manufacturer" did little to no testing with it. It looks like he just copied someone else's design and went ahead with it thinking his design was good. If he would have put this mill in the hands of some brewers he would have discovered it's short comings.
Click to expand...

Interesting observations. I haven't had a chance to try mine since it came in, but I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing?

I did attach my cordless drill just to play with it a bit and noticed there was a bit of a wobble in the shaft - like it's off-center slightly. Has anyone else noticed anything like that?
 
nckellys said:
What I wrote to the place I bought mine.... I'm not impressed.

I gotta tell you that I'm not all that impressed with the Cereal Killer Grain Mill. It was cheap and I guess you get what you pay for.
Here's a list of the issues I've noticed.

- Crank handle is too short. It takes a good bit of torque to pull the grain thru the rollers and this handle is just not long enough to do it. You can't keep any momentum going when your hand is traveling such a small diameter ark. Have you guys tried it? Now I realize most are using a drill or a motor to spin the roller. But the handle does not work so why include it. The customer is paying for it and it is totally useless.

- Play or slop in the bushings. I'd say there is .005 to .010" clearance between the bushing ID and the roller shaft OD. So you set the clearance with a feeler gage and what happens when the grain goes thru? It forces the roller out ward increasing the gap. The Machining quality is poor at best. The finish on the roller spindles (part that rides in the brass bushings) is coarse not polished like it should be. This will cause bushing wear and the bushing / roller slop (gap) will only increase with use. Poor Machining!

- Hopper attachment is weak. It is attached with two small machine screws into two half slots in the tin. The clamping force provided by the two small screws is low and any for or aft force on the hopper causes the hopper to break free from the mill spilling the hopper contents onto the floor.

In it's "as made" condition this grain mill is "rough". Obviously the "manufacturer" did little to no testing with it. It looks like he just copied someone else's design and went ahead with it thinking his design was good. If he would have put this mill in the hands of some brewers he would have discovered it's short comings.
Click to expand...

Does the barley crusher have the same issues except for the crank handle? Alot of people are happy with their barley crushers and I thought this was a better alternative from reading other posts. I'm mostly concerned with the build quality of the roller assembly.
 
steve071 said:
Does the barley crusher have the same issues except for the crank handle? Alot of people are happy with their barley crushers and I thought this was a better alternative from reading other posts. I'm mostly concerned with the build quality of the roller assembly.
Click to expand...

I don't believe any of the four listed complaints applies to the BC. The roller axles are polished, fit comfortably tight in the bronze bushings, the hopper screws don't pick up slots but go through holes and won't fall off the mill, and the crank is plenty long enough (though I will say I only used it once before I used an 18V XRP drill, which was before I motorized the mill)...

Cheers!
 
I will have to say the screws holding on the hopper do allow it to come loose. A little adjustment in the ol home garage shop fixes that. I don't know about the other things. I've used it 4 times and it still works the same.
 
mistercameron said:
Do any other CK owners see the same things?
Click to expand...

I ordered the Cereal Killer the weekend after Thanksgiving. Shipped in 2 days to my door, for free. The transaction and order process were great, so I've got nothing but good things to say about Adventures in Homebrewing. However, after getting some hands on with the Cereal Killer the shortcomings and defects were too much to overlook. I agree totally with NCKELLYS report.

The crank handle is definitely worthless. I'd rather get $5 off and know that I have to use a drill than even attempt to use the crank. It's just too damn short to get any kind of leverage.

The upper parts of the hopper were decent and fastened with rivets. It was fairly light gauge metal, you could easily bend it with your hands. The flaps that sit over the rollers were not bent correctly on mine. I had to adjust the angle to get the hopper base to sit flush with the block. The hopper isn't attached very well to the block. The nuts had less than 1/4" of hopper to grab onto. I had to add washers to get it secured.

The base was made from 3/4" birch plywood. It was fairly solid and nicely sanded. Not that a base has to be pretty but the top layer of the birch was chipped all up. I'll give that a pass though.

The dingy grey steel rollers seemed to spin fine with no issues on tolerance. My XRP drill was able to grab onto the shaft fine. However, when I went to set the gap, about 30% of the active roller on the side opposite the handle was out of round by about .017". You could see changes with the naked eye. So even when setting the gap to .039 in the middle of the variance, I would get gap fluctuations down to .031 up to .047. That was a major defect and deal killer. I requested an RMA and they gladly offered a full refund.

Make no mistake, the Cereal Killer is an economy roller mill and you will get what you pay for. Will it crush grain? Yes. Will it last you a lifetime? Maybe. Can you expect any precision or consistency from it? Not from the one I got.

After that experience I bit the bullet and ordered a Monster Mill 2 with hopper. I was thoroughly impressed with the quality and machining of the MM. It was worth a shot trying the Cereal Killer, but I don't regret spending the extra money on the MM2.
 
HalfmoundBrewer said:
The dingy grey steel rollers seemed to spin fine with no issues on tolerance. My XRP drill was able to grab onto the shaft fine. However, when I went to set the gap, about 30% of the active roller on the side opposite the handle was out of round by about .017". You could see changes with the naked eye. So even when setting the gap to .039 in the middle of the variance, I would get gap fluctuations down to .031 up to .047. That was a major defect and deal killer. I requested an RMA and they gladly offered a full refund.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity, did they offer to replace the defective roller or the entire mill? If so, was it the other issues (which seem relatively minor, to me) that prompted you to turn down that offer?
 
I talked to Jason about my wobbly shaft and he said first to check that the gap was the same on both sides. He said sometimes cheaper drills aren't quite to straight, especially when the chuck is backed out all the way, so double check that.

I'm out of town so I can't check my own mill, but I'm very pleased with how Jason is handling my issues, at least.
 
Does anyone have any thoughts on home made versions using concrete formed rollers? I found a few forums on ohter sites discussing the possibilities. Wasn't sure if anyone had some experience here with this.
 
BigPoppa502 said:
Does anyone have any thoughts on home made versions using concrete formed rollers? I found a few forums on ohter sites discussing the possibilities. Wasn't sure if anyone had some experience here with this.
Click to expand...

I believe there's a thread on here showing how to make one. I've seen a few around the web and they do work.
 
hercher said:
Out of curiosity, did they offer to replace the defective roller or the entire mill? If so, was it the other issues (which seem relatively minor, to me) that prompted you to turn down that offer?
Click to expand...

I'd agree, the sloppy hopper mounting was a minor issue, although irritating.

I didn't ask them about a replacement roller or another mill. I just didn't feel like taking another chance on a replacement given the poor quality control and workmanship of the first one.
 
Solbes,
thanks for the pictorial. I got a Cereal Killer for Christmas. I hope that the workmanship is fine on mine. I think overall I will be happy with it, it just seems a little quirky... but hey that's perfect for me. This being my first mill I had no idea how to hone in on the crush I want and as my first batch with it I made a Bavarian hefeweizen today. I had mixed my grains, bad idea. Next time I brew with a large proportion of wheat, which is about 50% of the time, I will be grinding the wheat alone and then adjusting the rollers for the barley. I was trying to use a 3/4 dead cordless drill and it kept slipping, so after about 45 minutes of frustration I ran out to the garage and stole my boyfriends corded hammer drill, Amazing! But like a total girl I didn't tighten the thumb screws enough and the gap slipped open as I was crushing. Rookie mistake. Sooo, with a double decocted 2 1/2 hour mash I got 64% efficiency, when I've been at about 69-70% with this recipe in the past. Sad. I will of course not give up on it yet, I think putting the washers in the hopper, and really tightening the screws before running the super powered drill will make a huge difference. But what do I know, this was my first time. :)
 
mcbethenstein said:
Solbes,
thanks for the pictorial. I got a Cereal Killer for Christmas. I hope that the workmanship is fine on mine. I think overall I will be happy with it, it just seems a little quirky... but hey that's perfect for me. This being my first mill I had no idea how to hone in on the crush I want and as my first batch with it I made a Bavarian hefeweizen today. I had mixed my grains, bad idea. Next time I brew with a large proportion of wheat, which is about 50% of the time, I will be grinding the wheat alone and then adjusting the rollers for the barley. I was trying to use a 3/4 dead cordless drill and it kept slipping, so after about 45 minutes of frustration I ran out to the garage and stole my boyfriends corded hammer drill, Amazing! But like a total girl I didn't tighten the thumb screws enough and the gap slipped open as I was crushing. Rookie mistake. Sooo, with a double decocted 2 1/2 hour mash I got 64% efficiency, when I've been at about 69-70% with this recipe in the past. Sad. I will of course not give up on it yet, I think putting the washers in the hopper, and really tightening the screws before running the super powered drill will make a huge difference. But what do I know, this was my first time. :)
Click to expand...

Next time that happens just run the grain through the mill a second time. The easy way to set the gap is using a credit card to set the gap and tighten down the thumb screws. Get a cheap corded adjustable speed drill from harbor freight if you don't have one and run it slowly. Run a little grain through and look at the crush. Then adjust the gap if needed.
 
I got a chance to try out my CK this past weekend and... I'm a little disappointed.

The active roller seems to be off-center (as others have experienced). Using a set of feeler gauges, there was a very noticeable difference as I spun the roller by hand. When I attached the drill, it became more noticeable both visually and audibly.

As everyone has mentioned, the handle is absurd. Way too short to be of any use. That's not a big issue for me, since I planned all along to motorize it. Since I didn't have a chance to get that far, I just attached the drill for now.

I didn't find the hopper to be a very big deal. Mine seemed to be fitted properly and held about 8 pounds of grain no problem. It's thin metal but it's adequate, in my opinion.

I've been working a lot of overtime this week and I haven't had a chance to contact Jason regarding the roller yet, but I plan on it. I know these things happen, but the bottom line is that it's not a satisfactory product in it's current state.

Honestly, if I can get a roller in there that runs true, I'll be satisfied with this purchase. Hopefully I'll be able to report back with good news.
 
I checked my rollers and both the active and passive don't turn true. The gap range was off by about 0.010 to 0.014 as the rollers turned (Eg, the measured gap was from 0.029 to 0.039 in the same spot while turning, another I measured at 0.016 to 0.031). I also tried a second drill today and it was exhibiting the same problems as the first drill - the roller shaft wobbled.

I will say this - Jason has been very receptive and helpful. If you have any concerns, just give him a call or shoot him an email. Whether you end up keeping your CK or not, Adventures in Homebrewing seems like a pretty good place to shop.
 
mistercameron said:
...
I will say this - Jason has been very receptive and helpful. If you have any concerns, just give him a call or shoot him an email. Whether you end up keeping your CK or not, Adventures in Homebrewing seems like a pretty good place to shop.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. I contacted him regarding my trouble, and he responded very quickly with help. I'm very pleased with their customer service.
 
So if the CK seems to have regular issues with the rollers being out of round or not turning true, have any Barley Crusher owners experienced similar problems? Also, have any CK owners gotten these issues resolved by AIH?
 
I ordered one before seeing this thread. I am hoping that since mine is back ordered until 2/1 that an improved version will be sent. If not I will be sending it back and ordering a barley crusher. I had not planned on a grain mill but for 90 bucks with free shipping I could not say no. Now I am hooked on the idea of bulk grain so I will have to end up with a grain mill even if it costs me a bit more.
 
Its probably more of an issue with the bearings being pressed into off center holes than the rollers being out of round... they're probably just knurling bar stock which has been die-extruded. The company should replace these as this is a clear defect.
 
bottlebomber said:
Its probably more of an issue with the bearings being pressed into off center holes than the rollers being out of round... they're probably just knurling bar stock which has been die-extruded. The company should replace these as this is a clear defect.
Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with the manufacturing process, but it would seem that off center holes in the frame would still produce true rolling unless you mean to say the bearings aren't true, which would make sense. On the other hand, taking the extruded stock and cutting it down to the shaft could produce the same results if the roller wasn't centered well on the lathe.

At this point it doesn't matter exactly what's wrong with individual components. I'm going to consider the BC or some other mill. I just don't think this first round of CKs are ready.
 
mistercameron said:
I'm not familiar with the manufacturing process, but it would seem that off center holes in the frame would still produce true rolling unless you mean to say the bearings aren't true, which would make sense. On the other hand, taking the extruded stock and cutting it down to the shaft could produce the same results if the roller wasn't centered well on the lathe.

At this point it doesn't matter exactly what's wrong with individual components. I'm going to consider the BC or some other mill. I just don't think this first round of CKs are ready.
Click to expand...
No you're right, if the holes in the frame were out of position the rollers would still spin true. I mean that the holes in the rollers are off the centerline of the roller, making it spin eccentrically. I don't have the mill so I can't inspect it, but Im reasonably sure if you were to check the rollers with a micrometer you would find that the knurled sections were round. My guess is that they clamped over the knurls in a chuck or collet and tried to bore the holes. Its hard to get good concentricity when you're clamping on knurls especially if it was a 3 jawed chuck.
 
I'll just throw my hat in and say my CK seems to be doing just fine. It's hooked up to a pulley system on mounted bearings, so there's no strain on the shaft, if that may be what's throwing it out in everyone else's using a drill or the handle. Probably not, if people were checking it as soon as they got it, just trying to find a similar thread in the problems. I've thrown 30lbs through mine so far and it's still held 0.035 on each side just fine, with no wobble.
 
I also noticed that the rollers were not absolutely true. Not sure if this is a problem for someone like me because the difference is minimal from what I can tell. I did try a test and took 25 grains and ran it though. All 25 got the bugger squished out of them. Then I tried a hundred grains. There might have been one grain that was not squished completely of that bunch. I was using "special-B" which seems very brittle so I will try it again using regular two row. Unless I start seeing a lot of whole grains coming through the mill I am happy. If I were trying to eek out every little bit of efficiency it might be a bigger issue. Next time I am in the store I will ask about this and see what can be done if anything. I do know that some have bought this mill for $79 and I would say it was a great value for the money. I am thinking along the same lines as mentioned earlier that the holes were bored in the rollers while in a jig or chuck. Anyway I am completely happy with mine and it cost me $99. But if it can be improved I am all for that as well.

Happy Brew Year!!!!
Mike
 
So I got a Cereal Killer for Christmas and used it for the first time today. Yes, my rollers seem to be a little off center (you can definitely see the wobble when you put a drill on it) but I decided to go ahead and give it a shot before contacting AIH. I set the gap to 0.035" and measured at both ends of the roller to try and get an even gap. The gap doesn't look too bad but you can see that it gets larger and smaller as the rollers turn.

Everything started off pretty fine but then I noticed that the mill got very easy to turn. Upon further inspection, I found out that the passive roller was stuck and the active roller was just spinning grinding the grain as opposed to crushing it. I cleared out the hopper and rollers and found that it was grain getting stuck at the ends of the passive rollers that was causing the issue. I was able to keep a good crush going by only feeding a cupful of grain in at a time directly above the roller gap. This allowed the passive roller to turn with the active roller when grain was between them. If there was too little grain between them, the passive roller wouldn't "bite" and spin with the active roller. I plan on modifying the hopper so that it directs grain directly to the roller gap, blocking the ends of the passive roller, and see how that works out.
 
Usually I just fill the hopper to the brim and start grinding. The passive roller on mine does stick once in a while when a grain gets stuck on the side of the roller. You do not need to empty it. All I do is (turn of the drill of course) and reach underneath the mill on the output side. Then spin the passive roller with your finger. It really takes barely any effort and maybe one full spin forward and/or backward. Literally takes me less then 15 seconds from the time it happens to the time it is back up and running. I do not plan on modifying my hopper as this occasional hick-up barely registers on my frustration meter.

BTW - Stopped by Adventures in Homebrewing today. Jason was busy at his other store in Ann Arbor but there were several friendlies that took the time to discuss the roller business with me. I let them know what I thought the issues with the rollers were. They appreciated the feed back and will need to investigate. Will post any beneficial feedback that I might get.

This is my opinion not theirs... It may come down to a matter of money. They are trying to provide a decent product for a very reasonable price. This requires cost effective manufacturing. You can't expect to pay for a Pinto and have a Cadillac delivered. They are probably lucky to break even on this item. But a good business is willing to do that to keep customers coming back to stock their brewing shelves with other things. While this mill is not the best in the industry it sure is a solid piece of equipment for a regular Joe like me.
 
From the start, my passive roller would not turn easily by hand even without grain in it. Never thought anything about it seeing as how I'd never used a mill before. While I had my boil going tonight, I decided to look a little closer at the mill and see what might be going on.

I took the hopper off to get a better look and cleared out the stuck grain from one end of the passive roller. I noticed that the passive roller was really offset to one side, so I decided to take that whole roller out. I cleared all off the grain/powder out and put the roller back in. This time I made sure that the passive roller was evenly spaced between the two walls that hold it.

I think that this may be the key for that passive roller because it is no longer offset to one side. Before this fix it was too tight to one side causing it to turn very difficulty while the other side had a gap so large that full grain kernels could slip right in. The roller turns very easy by hand now. I don't think I'll mess with the hopper like I mentioned before and just give the mill another shot with passive roller centered.

When the passive roller was turning, the cereal killer worked great. Hopefully, making sure that passive roller is properly centered will keep it rolling!
 
caphector said:
Has anyone had good experiences with this mill? It's currently on sale for $89, and if I stand a chance of getting a good one I might get it.
Click to expand...

Sure, se people have reported no problems, but I'm not certain they went into the same detail. You can always buy and return it of it doesn't work out. I think they have some work to make these things consistently. I'm on the fence about getting a replacement, but right now I'm leaning toward another mill. I just don't want to deal with another potentially finicky mill. Even if the gap is set correctly, are there other manufacturing defects? Who knows. It's a brand new product.
 
caphector said:
Has anyone had good experiences with this mill? It's currently on sale for $89, and if I stand a chance of getting a good one I might get it.
Click to expand...

I think it will work great after my adjustments. Don't trust the "factory defaults" of the mill. Take the time to check out the moving parts and set the gap correctly.

I think my issue was with the passive roller being stuck to one side. If you can't spin the rollers freely by hand with no grains, make sure the rollers are centered in the mill. When I had both rollers turning, this mill did a great job.

The off-centered or wobbly roller didn't have a big impact on my brew. In fact, I saw a 7% increase in efficiency compared to getting my grains crushed at my LHBS. 70% to 77%.
 
I cancelled my order a long time ago when the negative comments started rolling in. I ended up getting a crankenstein 2A for $99. I don't see any of these issues with the crankenstein. No wobble, even gap and set up perfectly to work great right out of the box. Don't have to worry about centering the rollers or the passive roller not spinning. Got great crush with wheat (chocolate) and 2-row with only one gap setting. I'm sure the monster mill and the maltmill are even better but I think what I have is good enough for the price.
 
I bought this as my first mill for the $89 shipped price. I have not used it yet, but the passive roller was canted so I took it all apart and made some adjustments. Now it looks to work great.

Also they have started adding a rubber o-ring to the roller that will contact the passive roller and keep it moving.

I think I'll be happy with it after tweaking the rollers a little.
 

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