Mini Mash System for Extract Brewers

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RichBrewer

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This idea came to me while posting in this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=8748
I think we as a team should figure out how to design and build a mini mash system that extract brewers could use to do partial mashes when they brew.
I want to say right off the top that this isn't intended to slam extract brewers. If you enjoy the hobby by doing extract only then by all means stay with it but if you are doing extract with steeped grains this method might not be much more difficult or take much longer. If it works it will make your home brew better.
We need input from everyone.
From the extract brewers:
- Would you be interested in a mini mash system?
- How much would you be willing to spend to build this system?
- What would you want this system to do for you?
From AG and experienced brewers:
-Would a mini mash system even work?
- What procedures and equipment would work best?
- Would the addition of a bit of pale 2 row help in the mash? (Maybe 1 or 2 pounds)
- What would its limitations be? (adjuncts may not work too well)

I think this system should:
1. Not be too costly to assemble so there is not a big expense to step up to PM.
2. Create about 2 to 3 gallons of wort. The malt extract could be added to this in a fairly small brew pot.
3. Be fairly simple to use and not extend the brewing session too long.
4. Strait forward assembly with parts that would be easy to get.

Brewsmith found this link for a 2 gallon cooler. I think this is a good start. for the mash/Lauter tun.
http://www.igloo-store.com/product_detail.asp?T1=IGL+LEG+2G+BLUE&HDR=personbeverage
The cooler will need to contain 3 to 5 pounds of grain and the strike water needed to mash it. (5 pounds of grain would take about 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 gallon of water)
A false bottom is needed to strain the wort. What would be best? stainless steel braided hose? A type of false bottom? a manifold made from copper pipe? Any other suggestions? (Thanks again Brewersmith)

What procedures would make this work best? I would say a simple infusion mash at about 150 to 155 degrees and batch sparging with 170 degree water. After the sparge is done the brewing session would be the same as pure extract.

If this would work, I think it would be a system for brewers who either don't have the time or don't want to hassle with doing a full all grain brew. It might be good as well for anyone who wants to step up to AG but wants to first learn through PM brewing.
I would love to get input from everyone. :mug:
 
Cheap and easy would suggest to me a cheap cooler and a hose braid. Should work well for partial. I think you hit it right on the head with a simple infusion mash at about 150 to 155 degrees and batch sparging with 170 degree water. Even cheaper would be a bucket and a bucket grain mesh bag. Or even just a pot and sparge thru a colander or something. Never tried that but bet it would work.
 
Extract/steeping brewer here.

I don't think it would be worth the trouble. I've done a 'mini-mash' a couple of times, which just consisted of sticking my grain in a bag (obviously there was some 2-row in the mix), submerging that in water of the right temp for 1-2 hours, then giving it a rough rinse.

Because I rely on extract for all my fermentable anyway, this is really just to impart some more complex flavours to the brew, and it seems to work fine.

Just my two cents...
 
Shambolic said:
Extract/steeping brewer here.

I don't think it would be worth the trouble. I've done a 'mini-mash' a couple of times, which just consisted of sticking my grain in a bag (obviously there was some 2-row in the mix), submerging that in water of the right temp for 1-2 hours, then giving it a rough rinse.

Because I rely on extract for all my fermentable anyway, this is really just to impart some more complex flavours to the brew, and it seems to work fine.

Just my two cents...
Very good point. However, I think you would get more out of your specialty grains if they were mashed and sparged in this manner. Plus you could use grains like Munich malt which must be mashed.
 
I started mini-mashing to get fermentables for two reasons, to add more depth to the beer-in-a-can kits I was using and to learn the mechanincs of AG which is where I knew I would end-up. In the end I was mashing about 4-5lbs of grain in a big pot on the stove, monitoring the temp closely. Then I would rinse the grains in a big colander a couple times with water at 170F. I think its a great idea Rich, if I were to do it again I may go a bit more complicated in the lautering process, but I learned enough about grain-beds and stuff doing it the cheap way. I also learned exactly how I wanted my full-size AG setup to be.
 
I'll do a partial mash or two a year with my bottling bucket and large mesh bag. Brewing in the summer at 110-120°F in the shade prevents the need for a cooler due to low temp shifts. I agree that its a great way to increase knowledge of the brewing process, give more control over the specifics of the beer without all the time and expense of AG.

Wild
 
First, I'll say up front that I know little about the process being pretty new to the scene. Second, as a partial mash brewer, where I steep my grains in muslin bags at 170 degrees for a period, rinse them with 170 degree water, and then add my dry malt, extract and hops, I'll say I'm pretty happy with the quality of my brew.

That said, last night I was talking to my home brew guy and he said that, to do a mini mash, all I would need is a small pot, a small spigot drilled into it, and one of those mini bazooka T strainers. I couldn't figure out how he described recirculating the water to sparge the grain but it sounded pretty easy. From what he said, I could start my wort in one pot while getting the mini mash going in another, saving maybe a half hour of the process. So, this could be interesting as I get into the bigger batches.
 
Robbw said:
That said, last night I was talking to my home brew guy and he said that, to do a mini mash, all I would need is a small pot, a small spigot drilled into it, and one of those mini bazooka T strainers. I couldn't figure out how he described recirculating the water to sparge the grain but it sounded pretty easy. From what he said, I could start my wort in one pot while getting the mini mash going in another, saving maybe a half hour of the process. So, this could be interesting as I get into the bigger batches.
I'm thinking you could get one of those 2 or 3 gallon coolers with a SS braided hose for cheaper than the bazooka strainer.
To recirculate the wort you just open the spigot on the mash/lauter tun and fill a small glass container. You then very gently pour the wort back into the mash/lauter tun. You repeat this until the wort comes out some what clear. You would then drain the tun into your brew pot. When it is done draining you add more water to the tun, stir it up, let it settle, and then recirculate again. This whole procedure is repeated until you have used all of the sparge water. I think you could apply heat to the pot once you are about half way done sparging and you could also add the malt extract (with heat off).
 
i personally do not want any extra equipment to store/clean. i will probably use the pot and strainer method even though i won't get the best efficiency it's still better than just steeping...right?
 
bootytrapper said:
i personally do not want any extra equipment to store/clean. i will probably use the pot and strainer method even though i won't get the best efficiency it's still better than just steeping...right?
That method works but you can't use malt that requires a mashing process (like Munich) and as you said straining isn't as efficient. If you are satified with the beer you make you should certainly stay with the method you currently use.
 
Ive steeped in every brew Ive done except one. I think this is a great idea for those of us who will eventually get into all grain.

Now a question about the coolers posted above. How to you go about adding the steel braid to the spigot on one of those?
 
I throw my grains in a bag and let them stew for an hour. When it's time to remove them, I have a tea kettle with hot water that I use to sparge my grains. No problems so far. I've even done some HEAVY grists.
 
JimmyBeam said:
Ive steeped in every brew Ive done except one. I think this is a great idea for those of us who will eventually get into all grain.

Now a question about the coolers posted above. How to you go about adding the steel braid to the spigot on one of those?
The spigot would be removed then either a bulk head fitting or a rubber stopper would be installed. A plastic tube the diameter of a racking cane would be inserted through the rubber stopper. Tubing could be used to attach the manifold and to the outlet to contain a valve and to drain into the kettle.
Any other ideas?
 
If you guys come up with something, I'll happily try it to see if it improves the end result and/or the process.
 
I'd be interested. I've been looking into moving up to partial mash brewing so this interests me quite a bit. I'm not sure what I'd be willing to spend. Partial mash brewing would be the way for me to go for the indefinite future as I don't see AG being very practical for me with the limited storage space, etc I have right now.

--Aaron
 
I would be HIGHLY interested in this for two of the main reasons already mentioned. To get more out of the specialty grains you would use in the process in my mind would translate to better flavors in the beers you would be brewing. Making it economical to do even makes more sense.

Time constraints. 10 year old son, 2 year old son. God help me. (at least the youngest wants to help me wash bottles.) Along with SWMBO taking night classes...

Time be precious in my land... But again in my mind, the extra time is worth the better tasting brew...

So who's the guinea pig? (I can't, I don't have time right now... :D )

It's a superb idea.


Ize
 
I will look around for components and see of I can get a parts list and a rough cost. The more I look at it, I would say a three gallon cooler would work best.
 
I found this Rubbermaid 3 gallon cooler at walmart for $18.45
2967-3galloncooler1.jpg
 
RichBrewer said:
I found this Rubbermaid 3 gallon cooler at walmart for $18.45
2967-3galloncooler1.jpg
A 48 qt Ice Cube or a 5 gal round Rubbermade is <$22.00 at the same store. :)
Going AG isn't really all that much $$.



:mug:
 
Mudd said:
A 48 qt Ice Cube or a 5 gal round Rubbermade is <$22.00 at the same store. :)
Going AG isn't really all that much $$.



:mug:
I'm not looking at cost alone. The 5 gallon is a viable option for someone who knows they are going AG but even then, the 5 gallon may be too big for PM brews. The grain bed might be be too shallow. Experts chime in here. :mug:
If the 5 gallon cooler works for PM then great. I will caution everyone though. For all grain brewing the 10 gallon cooler works much better. A 5 gallon Mash/Lauter tun can be too small for big beers.

I was also looking for a smaller cooler that takes up less room for folks who are limited on space. I would think the 3 gallon would be better for home brewers who don't plan on going AG for awhile or at all.
 
RichBrewer said:
I'm not looking at cost alone. The 5 gallon is a viable option for someone who knows they are going AG but even then, the 5 gallon may be too big for PM brews. The grain bed might be be too shallow. Experts chime in here. :mug:
If the 5 gallon cooler works for PM then great. I will caution everyone though. For all grain brewing the 10 gallon cooler works much better. A 5 gallon Mash/Lauter tun can be too small for big beers.

I was also looking for a smaller cooler that takes up less room for folks who are limited on space. I would think the 3 gallon would be better for home brewers who don't plan on going AG for awhile or at all.
Also, remember that it's not just about the cooler. If you go to AG you will need a larger brew kettle which will require you to get an out door propane cooker that will heat that much wort. This is a lot more equipment and expense that I'm trying to eliminate.
With what I'm proposing, the only extra equipment the extract brewer will need is a smaller cooler with a strainer/false bottom. They can sparge into their current brew pot then proceed like they normally do for extract brewing.
There could also be some money savings on ingredients as well. Malted grains could take the place of some of the malted extract.
Take a look at this recipe I found in the Sep/Oct 1998 Zymurgy:

3.5 LBS two row pale malt
1.5 LBS Munich malt
.5 LB 30 degree Crystal malt
.5 pound Wheat malt
3.5 LBS Extra Light Dried Malt Extract.
The recipe calls for an infusion mash of the grains. There are 6 pounds of grain. You can mash with 1 1/2 gallon of water at 170 degrees giving you a mash temp of about 155 degrees. Water absorbed during the mash: about .6 gallons. Sparge would be 3 gallons giving you about 3.5 gallons in the brew pot. Once the DME is added you would probably be in the 4 gallon range. I would think a 20 quart kettle would handle 4 gallons of wort.
If you just steeped the grains you would have to eliminate the Pale malt and the Munich malt. LME or DME would have to be used to make up for this. I figured 3 more pounds of DME. What is the cost of LBS DME as opposed to the 5 pounds of grain? 3 LBS DME is about $12.00. 3 1/3 LBS pale malt is about $1.00 per pound and Munich $1.50 a pound. Total cost for grain- about $5.75 saving about $6.25 on this batch. The system would pay for itself in about 4 brews. Your beer would be better if you use the Munich malt.
 
RichBrewer said:
I'm not looking at cost alone. The 5 gallon is a viable option for someone who knows they are going AG but even then, the 5 gallon may be too big for PM brews. The grain bed might be be too shallow. Experts chime in here. :mug:
If the 5 gallon cooler works for PM then great. I will caution everyone though. For all grain brewing the 10 gallon cooler works much better. A 5 gallon Mash/Lauter tun can be too small for big beers.

I was also looking for a smaller cooler that takes up less room for folks who are limited on space. I would think the 3 gallon would be better for home brewers who don't plan on going AG for awhile or at all.
OK, Point taken.
How long does your oven stay warm or hold temp?
Does your oven have a warming setting that will hold @ 150F?
My oven has a low setting of170F. I can pre heat to 170 while adding
170F water to my mini mash grains.
Turn off the oven, put my dutch oven with minimash grain, covered with towels into the oven and let it sit for 60 min. Strain thru a colander lined with 3 - 4 layers of cheese cloth, into boil kettle.
Replace grains, add sparge (Batch) water, stir, wait, drain and strain.

Hot break and Irish Moss takes care of any cloudiness.

That is my mini mash procedure when I don't steep or AG it!!

All stuff around the house, only had to buy extra cheese cloth.



:mug:
 
Mudd said:
OK, Point taken.
How long does your oven stay warm or hold temp?
Does your oven have a warming setting that will hold @ 150F?
My oven has a low setting of170F. I can pre heat to 170 while adding
170F water to my mini mash grains.
Turn off the oven, put my dutch oven with minimash grain, covered with towels into the oven and let it sit for 60 min. Strain thru a colander lined with 3 - 4 layers of cheese cloth, into boil kettle.
Replace grains, add sparge (Batch) water, stir, wait, drain and strain.

Hot break and Irish Moss takes care of any cloudiness.

That is my mini mash procedure when I don't steep or AG it!!

All stuff around the house, only had to buy extra cheese cloth.



:mug:
That works for you and that's great but I would like to see of we can build a system that is more efficient and easier to use. :mug:
The Mash tun made with a Rubbermaid cooler does not need to be in the oven. Hot water heats the grain and the insulated cooler maintains the temp.
 
I use a little mini lauter Tun, "Phil's mini Lauter Tun" goes for about 25$ Basically just a 2 gallon bucket, a false bottom, and tube with hose adjustable clamp, mine came with a lid. Works great for 5 pounds of grain. I have done the dousing the grains in the water, but this is the next step I suppose. My first wheat partial mash in which I used this system, should be bottling next weekend. Basically steeped at 150-160* I forget exact #s, and then sparged with 180* which only brought the temp up to ~165* at best. Then boiled, and I boiled the malt, although they say you don't have to, I thought it prudent to at least sterilize the extract for the last 15 minutes or so of an hour boil. Then filled it up with 5 gallons of cool water at the end.


Mini-mash-sm.jpg


I got mine from Annapolis home brew, a local home brew shop (LHBS?),

http://www.annapolishomebrew.com/shopmashing.asp

they have great instructions as well as I think some great partial mash recipes. I forget precisely, but it was like 4 pounds pale malt extract/wheat malt extract, and then 5 lbs wheat/malt don't know precisely their recipe... But all their premade recipes have an option for all extract with steeping grains, partial mash, or all grain. The Partial mash is based on the Phil's mini lauter tun.
 
RichBrewer said:
A
What is the cost of LBS DME as opposed to the 5 pounds of grain? 3 LBS DME is about $12.00. 3 1/3 LBS pale malt is about $1.00 per pound and Munich $1.50 a pound. Total cost for grain- about $5.75 saving about $6.25 on this batch.


Ok, now Im definitely going to give this a shot
 
Ocelaris said:
I use a little mini lauter Tun, "Phil's mini Lauter Tun" goes for about 25$ Basically just a 2 gallon bucket, a false bottom, and tube with hose adjustable clamp, mine came with a lid. Works great for 5 pounds of grain. I have done the dousing the grains in the water, but this is the next step I suppose. My first wheat partial mash in which I used this system, should be bottling next weekend. Basically steeped at 150-160* I forget exact #s, and then sparged with 180* which only brought the temp up to ~165* at best. Then boiled, and I boiled the malt, although they say you don't have to, I thought it prudent to at least sterilize the extract for the last 15 minutes or so of an hour boil. Then filled it up with 5 gallons of cool water at the end.


they have great instructions as well as I think some great partial mash recipes. I forget precisely, but it was like 4 pounds pale malt extract/wheat malt extract, and then 5 lbs wheat/malt don't know precisely their recipe... But all their premade recipes have an option for all extract with steeping grains, partial mash, or all grain. The Partial mash is based on the Phil's mini lauter tun.
What are they using for the false bottom in that set up?
 
Here I snapped some shots of mine now that I'm home. It's a thick perforated convex plastic screen...

Click to blow up
 
I think I might try to make a wort strainer like the one in this web page. It will be easy and inexpensive.
http://cruisenews.net/brewing/infusion/page1.php
As far as being concerned about extra equipment, The cooler with the wort strainer is all there would be to this system.

Ocelaris:
That looks like a good system as well. The only thing I would say is that the bucket needs to be insulated. wonder if listerman could build a Phalse bottom for a 3 gallon cooler?
 
Rich,

The more I read this thread, the more I'm going to have to go back and re-read it when I'm sober. It all makes perfect sense to me now, I'll have to check it in the morning. :drunk:

I think you are definitely on to something with this... I need to start shopping the sales because this will get me closer to where I want to be when I brew...


Ize
 
Ize said:
Rich,

The more I read this thread, the more I'm going to have to go back and re-read it when I'm sober. It all makes perfect sense to me now, I'll have to check it in the morning. :drunk:

I think you are definitely on to something with this... I need to start shopping the sales because this will get me closer to where I want to be when I brew...


Ize
Great. I hope to have something here I can test soon.
 
Found a Cooler at Bi Mart. http://www.bimart.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=603411 now, because it is rectangular would it make a bad mash tun? i'm thinking of getting 2 long SS braids and attatching them to a t, then drilling a hole right in the middle of the front of the cooler. I'm thinking of using 2 of these coolers for an AG system. For mini mashes, from what i've read, this cooler is too big. Is it too big for 5 gallon AG batches? I also want the option of doing 10 gallon bathces. I am currently searching for a keg for a kettle and a propane burner set up from garage sales/friends/classified ads/etc... (hoping to get some old BBQ I can Cannabolize... MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! :rockin: Also want to use some ball valves cause of their long handles. The longer the handle, the easier it is to make minute adjustments to controll the flow of wort out of the MLT & HLT. At leaste that's my train of thought. Is brass a bad idea on the ball valves? Once I get some ball valves how do I attach them to the coolers. (I am assuming rubber washers and whatever threaded plumbing supplies that will work.) I figure 24 bucks for 2 coolers, 10 bucks for 2 - 1/2" ball valves, another 5-10 bucks for the fittings to attach them to the coolers. How much do SS braids cost per inch/foot? What should I use as a sparge... uhh... thingy that delivers water on top of the grain bed(arm?)? Because of the shape of the Coolers would it have to be rectangular or would the $20 gizmo at my LHBS work? (it's an upside down "T" that rotates as it delivers water.) I'm thinking if I can get a keg at a scrap yard for 10-20 bucks and if I have to buy a turkey fry set up it would go for about $40. I could have a working AG set up that will do 10 gallon batches for close to $120.00.(maybe less depending on what I find 2nd hand and what I build on my own... heheheh). Any thoughts? All imput would be greatly appreciated. :D
 
Grimsawyer said:
Found a Cooler at Bi Mart. http://www.bimart.com/itemdetail.aspx?itemno=603411 now, because it is rectangular would it make a bad mash tun? i'm thinking of getting 2 long SS braids and attatching them to a t, then drilling a hole right in the middle of the front of the cooler. I'm thinking of using 2 of these coolers for an AG system. For mini mashes, from what i've read, this cooler is too big. Is it too big for 5 gallon AG batches?
From John Palmer's estimation it is a perfect sized cooler for you. Check out the following link for a manifold you could build for that cooler...click here!!

I'm thinking about using a 34qt. rectangular cooler that I've already got to build up a mash tun.

--Aaron
 
ok, i'm interested.

i want to eventually go to AG though, and would like to buy a cooler/mash/lauter tun that would handle a normal 5 gallon batch in the future, and also work for partial mash in the meantime. my kettle holds only 20qt, so this is my limiting factor right now. i'm looking into getting used to a system where i can mash as much as possible, and then just make up the difference with extract.

so the question for me now is the same one that was brought up earlier...

is a 5 gallon cooler too big for mashing, for example, 6-7lbs of grain?

...looking forward to see what y'all come up with!
 
I use that same Igloo cooler shown in the first post for mini mashing. actually use 2 of them.
works great so far.
I havent changed the spigot that it come with yet. All i have do is use the 4 for a doller knee high panty hose from wal mart as grain bags. I usually put about 2 lbs of grain in 1 "sock".

4-5 lbs is no problem in this cooler

155 deg for a hour. or so.
sparge with 170.
1 cooler with the grain, the other cooler i just used to hold the 170 deg water.

I just have a peice of rubber tube shoved up the spigot to use to spead the water around.

just about the time i get to sparging i start my kettle boiling about 2 gal, so there isnt to much wait time in between.
i just drain right into my kettle.

got my stir stick marked off in 1 gallon marks so when i am done sparging i can stand it up in my kettle to see how much more water there needs to be added to get my boil amount.

I basicly had my cooker and big pot already so didnt stick to much into it since then. the coolers were on sale last year for 6 bucks apiece.

But do think its worth trying partials or mini's beer is better in all kinds of ways. and dont really add much more time,,, maybe an hour.
just 1 more thing to squirt out with the hose when done.
 
I know what you are saying about the larger square or rectangular coolers but I'm looking for something a little different. Due to the shallow grain bed, I don't think a larger cooler would be very efficient for partial mashes. The one I've shown would create a deeper bed that should be better for PM.
The whole point being that an extract brewer could incorporate the mash into their brewing without a large expense, tons of equipment, and with out being too complicated.
Thanks for the input though. Someone chime in about efficiency for PMs in large Mash/Lauter Tuns. :mug:
 
I've come up with a stovetop system that I'm using for partial mashes since I have very limited space in which to brew (apartment kitchen, basically).

In my 8 gallon boiling kettle, I'm heating ~4 gal of water that will eventually be used to sparge, while at the same time heating ~1 gal of water to rest temp in a 2.5 gallon steaming pot to soak the 3 lbs or so of grains. By the time the grains are done, I've emptied my ~4 gal of ~185F water into an old plastic fermentor with a spigot and set on the counter to cool to sparge temp.

Once the grains are done, I place a standard kitchen colander over my boiling pot, and line it with a mesh grain bag (like you'd get at any LHBS) to catch the grains but still let the water into the pot. I'll move my boiling pot to a chair and attach a rig that I made with some copper tubing (like you'd use for an immersion chiller) attached to a small piece of plastic tubing connected to the bucket's spigot. The copper is basically just spiral shaped with some small holes in it to let the sparge water through. Sparge the grains, you'll have ~4.5 gal of water in the boiling pot... add an extra gallon-ish of water, bring to a boil, add extract, and brew.

This is a pretty decent, cheap system that will work on smaller batches in a confined space.
 
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