Just tried first AG... same "extract" off-flavor?

Brewed Biermuncher's Centennial Blonde on 6/18. Bottled it on 7/2. Drank one on 7/11. I know it's still early, but I am detecting the same "flavor" I had on my last brew, which was an extact red ale.

Overall, I'm impressed by the beer. It is CLEAR! I've never had a clear beer yet, but this one looks like a Budweiser. It is light, but it has a nice sweet/spicy balance to it, which is what I expected thanks to Biermuncher's description. For a first AG attempt, I am definitely happy.

However, I can't pin down this off-flavor. I had it previously tagged as "extract twang" but obviously it can't be that now that I've gone to AG. I don't think it's cardboard, since I never aerated the beer while it was hot. I was very careful with placing the tubing toward the bottom so that splashing would not occur.

I placed the carboy in a bucket of ice water with a wet towel placed over it on the second day of fermentation (which I realize was a day late). After fermentation is complete, I put the bottles under a towel with a fan running under the towel 24/7 for the 9 days since bottling day.

If this flavor is caused by high fermentation temperatures, what should I look out for? What is the common flavor that occurs when fermentation is too hot? It's hard to describe this flavor, but it is very heavy in the aftertaste. If I HAD to pick one of the common off-flavors listed on this site, it would be cardboard, but it really doesn't taste like cardboard to me. I'm really trying to get a homebrew that doesn't have that "homebrewed" taste. If it wasn't for this subtle aftertaste, this would have been a 100% success.

I know I will get many "it's not ready" posts, but I doubt this flavor is going to go away in the matter of a week or two. I had the same thing happen with my last batch and the flavor never went away.

Well like you said, It might be an off flavor from too high of a fermentation temperature. Thats my guess(although certainly not an expert). What east did you use and what temperature did you ferment at?

Just curious why you put the bottles under the towel with the fan?

Just sounds like its time to make a fermationation box. I don't know if this is your problem, but a constant controlled temp can only help your beer.

Could be diacetyl. I had a lager with diacetyl, when it was green it tasted to me like a cardboard box but later it was more like a tub of butter. Could be pitching too warm, or not enough time on the primary cake to cleanup. My ales are always clean even when fermented on the warm side because I give them 10-14 days in the primary.

- Eric

There could be a lot of reasons why you are getting an off flavor. What kind of commonalities do you have between your extract method and your AG method? What kind of equipment are you using? What is your sparging and mashing technique and temps?

I would start with looking at the commonalities between your two methods and work on them one at a time until you find what it is.

Might have something to do with your water; how does it taste coming out of the faucet... what was your efficiency?

The only commonalities between my AG and extract batches have been the water (Crystal Geyser mountain spring water, my personal favorite), and my lack of temperature control. I am just going to assume that is what I'm tasting.

I'm going to let it age... hopefully the flavor will subside. Otherwise, like I said earlier, for a first try I'm just happy to have a drinkable beer. It's way better than my last batch, so I'll have no trouble drinking this. I hope it will only get better with time.

I would bet the farm on fermentation temps. I had the same issues you had, even when just doing partial mashes...better in the winter, worse in the summer. Once I got a handle on my fermentation temps, everything was good as gold.

Take my word for it, it's that. Few things are as important as fermentation temps!

Brew Dude said:

I'm going to let it age... hopefully the flavor will subside. Otherwise, like I said earlier, for a first try I'm just happy to have a drinkable beer. It's way better than my last batch, so I'll have no trouble drinking this. I hope it will only get better with time.

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It almost certainly will, you've definitely got the right mindset. Have you checked out this page of Palmer? It's a great guide for recognizing and preventing off-flavors.

Common Off-Flavors

Could it possibly be that the beers you have been brewing just simply have flavor, and you are mistaking the natural flavor of the beer as a flaw because most of the commercial beers simply don't have much flavor.

-a.

ajf said:

Could it possibly be that the beers you have been brewing just simply have flavor, and you are mistaking the natural flavor of the beer as a flaw because most of the commercial beers simply don't have much flavor.

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My first few batches I thought something was a little odd. I now realize it's the big flavor hop addition.

Evan! said:

I would bet the farm on fermentation temps. I had the same issues you had, even when just doing partial mashes...better in the winter, worse in the summer. Once I got a handle on my fermentation temps, everything was good as gold.

Take my word for it, it's that. Few things are as important as fermentation temps!

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+1 temperature control during fermentation is really the key to great beer, not whether it's extract or AG (next to sanitation of course). If your temps are too high you'll get fruity esters and hot alcohols, both of which will give you off tastes you're not expecting.

You could try bringing a bottle to your LHBS or local HBT'ers and have them try it and diagnose the flavor. I'd wait until it isn't green though, at least 3 weeks, preferrbly 5-6.

ajf said:

Could it possibly be that the beers you have been brewing just simply have flavor, and you are mistaking the natural flavor of the beer as a flaw because most of the commercial beers simply don't have much flavor.

-a.

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Heh, I thought about this, but it's a flavor that is unique to my beers. My friend's brews never have this flavor (even though he has other problems with his beers, from time to time). I will avoid drinking more until the beer is at least 3 weeks old.

I thought of something else that may have caused the off flavor. I pitched the yeast at around 84 degrees, since my immersion chiller would not get it below 80. I was under the impression that as long as it is below 90, it's fine. Looks like I was wrong. So, I probably aerated the wort when it was too hot....

Live and learn, I guess.

How many volumes of CO2 are in it? Over-carbonated?

BrianP said:

You could try bringing a bottle to your LHBS or local HBT'ers and have them try it and diagnose the flavor. I'd wait until it isn't green though, at least 3 weeks, preferrbly 5-6.

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Great idea. Thanks.

The biggest improvement to my beers, regardless of technique, has been, 1: achieving my starting gravity, and 2: controlling fermentation temps. Of course there are many other considerations, but none of them come close to the improvement you will see in your beers if you control ferm temp. I found a product line of 10 cu. ft. chest freezers from Home Depot being phased out...a savings of about $75, and a digital external thermostat that did the trick. I've been brewing for about 5 years and kegging now for about 2. Only in the past year since the freezer purchase can I say I am now extremely happy with my product. I brewed a hefe with Wyeast 3638, fermented at 60 degrees and floated the keg in 3 hours. Can I say the guests were pleased?

High fermentation temperatures produce heavy fusel alcohols. The flavor can be described as hot or intrusively alcoholic.

I've always been suspect of "extract twang". I've never experienced it myself and the examples I've been given have always had other problems.