Wort Oxygenation

Is there any difference between the B3 $35 kit and the AHS $50 kit? Or the (gulp) $60 NB kit? Other than being in stock, I can't really see what you're getting with the more expensive kits - and shame on anyone who supplies a hose that's too short to reach to the bottom of a carboy!

Those small tanks run out REAL fast.I used one then just got a small cylinder from an oxy/accetalyne torch.I got some tubing for an aquarium air pump and a plastic air stone.I soak the air stone and tubing in sanitizer before use and have had great results with this set up.Of course I'm a mechanic and have a company re fill our tanks,so this probably Isn't
the best option for most.

If you have the budget, I will recommend the William's Brewing SS wand kit

WILLIAM'S OXYGEN AERATION SYSTEM
Item #:S78
Price - $49.90

http://www.williamsbrewing.com/WILLIAM_S_OXYGEN_AERATION_SYST_P699.cfm

"Includes 22" Aeration Wand with a 2 micron stainless aeration stone, 4' of tubing, and an Oxygen Regulator for standard hardware store oxygen welding tanks".

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

I like that Williams Aeration Wand! Got it on order. Thanks lanvp!

There is evidence to suggest oxygenation is good, but recent studies suggest that pouring wort into the primary and rocking it a bit provides as much O2 as a stone can.

I did not conduct this study myself, but as a cheap and lazy brewer, the LAST thing I buy for brewing will be oxy related.

cheezydemon3 said:

There is evidence to suggest oxygenation is good, but recent studies suggest that pouring wort into the primary and rocking it a bit provides as much O2 as a stone can.

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That study showed that shaking the fermenter was as effective as an aeration stone pumping air through the wort. Actually, shaking for 45 seconds was as effective as pumping air in for 4 minutes.

This is an oxygen stone (with an oxygen regulator); pumping pure O2 is more effective at oxygenating than shaking. A related study showed that an O2 stone can get 2 and 1/2 times more oxygen into solution than either shaking or pumping air can.

It'd still be low on my list of things to get.

cheezydemon3 said:

There is evidence to suggest oxygenation is good, but recent studies suggest that pouring wort into the primary and rocking it a bit provides as much O2 as a stone can.

I did not conduct this study myself, but as a cheap and lazy brewer, the LAST thing I buy for brewing will be oxy related.

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This was absolutely not what that study showed.

SumnerH said:

That study showed that shaking the fermenter was as effective as an aeration stone pumping air through the wort. Actually, shaking for 45 seconds was as effective as pumping air in for 4 minutes.

This is an oxygen stone (with an oxygen regulator); pumping pure O2 is more effective at oxygenating than shaking. A related study showed that an O2 stone can get 2 and 1/2 times more oxygen into solution than either shaking or pumping air can.

It'd still be low on my list of things to get.

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Thanks for the clarification.

BioBeing said:

This was absolutely not what that study showed.

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Close enough for me.

More o2 than shaking can provide has not been proven to make any measurable improvement in the beer. That's good enough for me.

cheezydemon3 said:

Close enough for me.

More o2 than shaking can provide has not been proven to make any measurable improvement in the beer. That's good enough for me.

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We need this smiley added to the list here.

jim4065 said:

I like that Williams Aeration Wand! Got it on order. Thanks lanvp!

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Glad I could help. I took the idea from one of Chris Knight's brewing videos.

Cheers!

BioBeing said:

We need this smiley

added to the list here.

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Sure! Keep doing that!

Hope you find a way to make your wort 50% O2, hopefully you spend less than a grand on your quest for more aeration.

I am pretty sure the german brewers of old didn't have fish tanks.

We are dancing the fine line of argument, I mean no harm, and yes I am just repeating things I've heard.

I appreciate that there are people like you who pore over the science. If you guys find out something that I REALLY can't brew without, I will be eternally grateful. For now I am in the wait and see crowd on spending $ on aeration.

I just used the Williams Brewing wand thingy for the first time and it worked awesome. The last thing I like to do after an afternoon of brewing is shake 5 gallons of wort for 5 minutes. Call me lazy but it was well worth the 50 bucks

Troubs said:

I just used the Williams Brewing wand thingy for the first time and it worked awesome. The last thing I like to do after an afternoon of brewing is shake 5 gallons of wort for 5 minutes. Call me lazy but it was well worth the 50 bucks

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Truth be told, I am more of a "pour it from 4 feet up and call that good" kind of brewer.

Cheers on the happiness that brought you!

I am still a noob at brewing, I just have 8 batches to date, however....

If I am consistently successful in reaching my FG - by just shaking the the carboy, why would I need to do anything else?

When it comes to aerating, it's all about KISS for me. This little guy rocks!

Marsdude said:

I am still a noob at brewing, I just have 8 batches to date, however....

If I am consistently successful in reaching my FG - by just shaking the the carboy, why would I need to do anything else?

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That is the question. Especially since the olde germans and brits sure as hell didn't have stones or pure O2.

Of course they didn't have better bottles or star san either, but convenience is a different animal than saying you've improved the entire brewing system.

cheezydemon3 said:

That is the question. Especially since the olde germans and brits sure as hell didn't have stones or pure O2.

Of course they didn't have better bottles or star san either, but convenience is a different animal than saying you've improved the entire brewing system.

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C'mon now - no one's saying that Oxygenation improves the entire brewing system - just that it easily puts the highest level of O2 in the wort before pitching.

The B3 Oxygenation Wand did a fine job on my first brew in 2 months, but I'm already thinking of using it as an adjunct to my "whirlpooling aeration". My theory is that since boiling removes the Oxygen why not replace some of it by spraying the hot wort back into the kettle post-boil? I ran the big pump for 15 minutes after the heat was turned off just to see if it whirlpooled any pellet residue. Since I'm using the small nozzle it has a strong stream which can really kick up foam in the kettle. Probably need to take some pictures of "Black Betty" in action.

jim4065 said:

The B3 Oxygenation Wand did a fine job on my first brew in 2 months, but I'm already thinking of using it as an adjunct to my "whirlpooling aeration". My theory is that since boiling removes the Oxygen why not replace some of it by spraying the hot wort back into the kettle post-boil? I ran the big pump for 15 minutes after the heat was turned off just to see if it whirlpooled any pellet residue. Since I'm using the small nozzle it has a strong stream which can really kick up foam in the kettle. Probably need to take some pictures of "Black Betty" in action.

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I would cool the wort before adding any aeration. I know we tend to dismiss hot side aeration in homebrewing because its usually a slash here or there but with a circulation pump it may of concern

springer said:

I would cool the wort before adding any aeration. I know we tend to dismiss hot side aeration in homebrewing because its usually a slash here or there but with a circulation pump it may of concern

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Hot side aeration arguments aside, oxygenating hot wort is a waste of time. Gas dissolves much better in cold liquids than warm. If you want the oxygen to remain in the wort, you should oxygenate at pitching temps.

FWIW I have experimented with O2 injection flow rates and time using pure O2 and a flow meter to maintain flow rate. A flow rate of .5scfh and a duration of 3 minutes gave normal attenuation level with a ready to pitch yeast vial into 6 gallons of 1.055 wort. More duration and the attenuation went up significantly, more flow was a waste as if it makes foam, it is not absorbed into the cold wort. Most dramtic result was 5 minutes into a 1.045 special bitter wort, it fermented to terminal gravity in 36 hours, 20% loss in foam through blow off hose, and finished at 1.001. All the testing was done without starters, just shake and pour ready to pitch vials/tubes of ale yeast to keep yeast cell count variable relatively similar, worts were 1.055-1.060 range and batch size was 6 gallons.

kladue said:

FWIW I have experimented with O2 injection flow rates and time using pure O2 and a flow meter to maintain flow rate. A flow rate of .5scfh and a duration of 3 minutes gave normal attenuation level with a ready to pitch yeast vial into 6 gallons of 1.055 wort. More duration and the attenuation went up significantly, more flow was a waste as if it makes foam, it is not absorbed into the cold wort. Most dramtic result was 5 minutes into a 1.045 special bitter wort, it fermented to terminal gravity in 36 hours, 20% loss in foam through blow off hose, and finished at 1.001. All the testing was done without starters, just shake and pour ready to pitch vials/tubes of ale yeast to keep yeast cell count variable relatively similar, worts were 1.055-1.060 range and batch size was 6 gallons.

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Thanks for the info. Was this a welding tank or medical? Where did you get the flow meter?

The source was welding O2, passed through a filter, Dwyer VFA-1 flowmeter, and sintered SS air stone. All the testing was done with ale yeasts and ready to pitch tubes for consistent starting cell counts. The german weizen yeasts were the fastest fermenting, and the belgian yeasts the slowest to finish. Lag times are greater with only ready to pitch yeast additions because of time spent multiplying yeast cells, starters help kick things off faster but expect FG to be 4-8 points lower than before O2 as the yeast get with it when fermentation starts. Step mash temps up a couple degrees when using stepped starters or repitching slurry, things can get going faster than expected.
Having worked on various air liquification systems and projects, it seems that the only difference between Med and welding O2 is the documentation, source appears to the same LOX flow from the cold box.