CPVC Manifold - Where did I go wrong?

So I tried my hand at building a CPVC manifold, since I was tired of a floating braid and mangling it during stirring.

I gave this manifold a test run awhile ago, and it failed. When I first opened up the valve, a ton of grain came out very quickly. Then just stuck immediately afterwards. I ended up attaching a bike pump to the valve/hose to force the grain back out of the manifold. I finally got a very slow run, but with tons of grain chunks. I put a paint strainer bag in the kettle to help filter the grain even further. I had to repeat the process for the (batch) sparge. My crush is done at the lhbs, and looks like a good crush to me (though I lack experience). I'm pretty sure it wasn't over crushed, at least not significantly so.

The manifold did not fall apart during the whole process. What did I do wrong? Too many slits? Slits too big? The slits are cut with a hacksaw.

Slits look like they are too big. If you don't want to rebuild maybe get some mesh and wrap it around the holes.

tally350z said:

Slits look like they are too big. If you don't want to rebuild maybe get some mesh and wrap it around the holes.

Click to expand...

How thin do you think they should be? The slots are thinner than a dime.

Slits look fine you may need more pipe with slits in it. May have to many bends.

Open the valve very slowly at first will allow the grain bed to set. If it still sticks then you might have another issue.

I drilled holes in mine didnt use slits. It works great

I agree with opening the valve slowly at first. The after the grain bed sets, you can open it all the way.
The slits look fine.
Bull

I built a very similar one, except I used an 1/8" drill bit, and it works great. I know a hacksaw cut works well. Is it possible that the outlet tube was the issue? Loose fitting, or came undone?

I opened the valve slowly, but slow is subjective. It definitely clogged long before I could ever open the valve all the way. How slow are you guys talking about?

I'm very reluctant to try out this manifold again without any changes...

How is the final connection made to the bulkhead? Any chance there was a gap?

BargainFittings said:

How is the final connection made to the bulkhead? Any chance there was a gap?

Click to expand...

+1. I have a similar one and the connection to the bulkhead came apart and gave the same exact symptoms. I knocked it loose with the mash paddle. Now that I have fixed it I can run that sucker full bore with no problems.

Your design looks about right, but there is some good info here http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD.html if you haven't already read it.

pabloj13 said:

+1. I have a similar one and the connection to the bulkhead came apart and gave the same exact symptoms. I knocked it loose with the mash paddle. Now that I have fixed it I can run that sucker full bore with no problems.

Click to expand...

+2, I would suspect the connection to the bulkhead as well

mariojr said:

Your design looks about right, but there is some good info here http://www.howtobrew.com/appendices/appendixD.html if you haven't already read it.

Click to expand...

<hijack>

Holy cow! I'm a Mario Jr., too!!! :rockin:

</hijack>

Can you show pix of it in the Mash Tun? Is there any chance the manifold is getting bent by the weight of the grain and allowing the slits to open up on the bottom of the manifold? This would allow larger grain matter inside the manifold. i.e. Does the manifold rest FLAT on the bottom of the MLT or does it hit the radius of the sidewall anywhere?

agree with all stated. you should be able to slowly drain and return that back to the top of the grain bed until you have a clear flow. this might take a half gal to finally get it clear but after the grain bed should provide a filter and unless you have something else going on your design should be fine. a pic of the manifold ready to use in the MT would be helpful.

Here's a pic with the manifold installed. The part that attaches to the bulkhead screws on. The connecting piece is bent (with a heat gun), and attaches to a 90 degree elbow. The elbow then fits into the connecting T on the base of the manifold.

The manifold lays pretty flat, I could maybe stick a quarter under one side to level it out. And if I played with some more I could probably get it to lay perfectly flat.

I was considering some CPVC cement, but then how would I clean it...

I glued mine (a square but same idea) everywhere except where the arrows are. Then I can pull it in half to clean, but I don't knock it apart with the mash paddle.

I built my manifold with copper and drilled holes. I still worried about stuck sparges because let's face it, a pvc manifold or a copper manifold everyone faces the possibility of a stuck sparge everytime you brew. So, what I do is before I dump my water into the mashtun I wrap my manifold with cheese cloth. I've never had a stuck sparge and for $2 it is a cheap way to get piece of mind when brewing. If you still experience issues then the only other problem point would be at the bulk head.

just out of curiosity, does it empty at a good flow rate with just water in the MT and a hose on the output? or do you just open the valve and drain at the valve with no hose?

rekoob said:

just out of curiosity, does it empty at a good flow rate with just water in the MT and a hose on the output? or do you just open the valve and drain at the valve with no hose?

Click to expand...

When I initially tested it, I probably didn't have a hose attached (but did when I brewed). I just tested it again, and it functions well with the hose attached.

Why would that make a difference?

A hose will keep the siphon pulling below the level of the manifold.

Without one it breaks siphon when air enters the valve.

Makes sense.

I think I'm going to cement it similar to how pabloj13 described, and give it another go this weekend.

Is that for a 5 or 10 gallon cooler? I would just suggest just spending the 30-40 bucks on a false bottom. I redesigned my manifold several times and I gave up. Since the false bottom and fly sparge ive had zero stuck sparges and my effeciancy only increased. manifolds are nice to save a few bucks but not worth the aggrevation. Just my 2 cents.

They way I see it, spend 40 bucks + on a cooler, ya want the nice looking SS valve, then ya wanna save a few bucks on the work horse...just get a false bottom. Good luck and cheers, hope it works out for ya if ya stick with the manifold, I know how frustrating it can be.

poislb said:

Is that for a 5 or 10 gallon cooler? I would just suggest just spending the 30-40 bucks on a false bottom. I redesigned my manifold several times and I gave up. Since the false bottom and fly sparge ive had zero stuck sparges and my effeciancy only increased. manifolds are nice to save a few bucks but not worth the aggrevation. Just my 2 cents.

They way I see it, spend 40 bucks + on a cooler, ya want the nice looking SS valve, then ya wanna save a few bucks on the work horse...just get a false bottom. Good luck and cheers, hope it works out for ya if ya stick with the manifold, I know how frustrating it can be.

Click to expand...

I had the exact opposite experience. Nothing but trouble with false bottom and once I got the manifold mostly cemented, it works amazingly well. Lightning fast, vorlaufs quickly, no stuck sparges. I love it. The OP is almost there, it's likely just a simple fix.

Your connections are all right, and cementing it together won't likely make a difference... thats my opinion.

I think that your holes are a little deep and I think there are more than necessary. cpvc is cheap, you could always try making shallower cuts, spaced about 3/8" apart and see how that works. If not, you only waste a few bucks.

I had mine come apart last batch I brewed... what a PITA. I'm not exactly sure what caused it, but I'm considering cementing the 90 degree elbow. If the problem persists, I'll need to glue larger sections together.

To be safe, try taking about 6 seconds to fully open the valve. Personally I think the extra few seconds is definitely worth avoiding a stuck sparge!

good luck!

you could drill some small diameter holes at each joint. then run some cheap stainless steel wire through the holes. that would keep the entire assembly together.

Just get a little bag of SS sheet metal screws and put a screw through the coupling into the tubing.

I too have a CPVC manifold with hacksaw slits about 3/8-1/2" apart and they are pretty deep as well. The only stuck sparge I have had is when it came apart from the bulkhead during a stir. It works very well from vorlouf to wide open. I'm happy

Toy4Rick

JayMac said:

Your connections are all right, and cementing it together won't likely make a difference... thats my opinion.

I think that your holes are a little deep and I think there are more than necessary. cpvc is cheap, you could always try making shallower cuts, spaced about 3/8" apart and see how that works. If not, you only waste a few bucks.

I had mine come apart last batch I brewed... what a PITA. I'm not exactly sure what caused it, but I'm considering cementing the 90 degree elbow. If the problem persists, I'll need to glue larger sections together.

To be safe, try taking about 6 seconds to fully open the valve. Personally I think the extra few seconds is definitely worth avoiding a stuck sparge!

good luck!

Click to expand...

I thought the manifold was in place when I dumped the grain, but this thread has me second guessing myself.

I think I will try the cement + less cuts as well. At the least I will cement all the pieces that don't lay flat. I may do holes instead of slits. Cutting the slits was easy, sanding them was a pain. Or maybe I'll buy a dremel.

And 6 seconds to open the valve fully? I thought slowly meant much slower than that (1-2 mins).

I'm not sure what other people are doing, but 1-2 minutes sounds like overkill to me. It's not so much it being slow, as it is being consistent (with obvious exceptions, doing it consistently in .5 seconds wont work as well). If you open as a constant rate, then bed will set nicely. If you end up jerking or uneven opening of the valve the bed is sort of rushed and can cause stuck sparges. In any case, open the valve about 1/4 during vorlauf, and by the time you find there is no more grain coming out, the bed is probably set (AKA you can open the valve the whole way, just don't do it in one snappy motion).

I agree with gluing the 'dip tube' portion of the manifold, but the slotted horizontal pieces should be left together as you said. I recommend that next time you are brewing, add all of the sparge water at slightly above strike temp. Leave it in there for a minute or so, then inspect the manifold before dumping in the grain. If all of the connections look tight, then hopefully you're good. If the same problem persists, it must be that you're hitting the manifold while doughing in. This is what I'll try for my next batch, hopefully it works!

I brewed today with my new manifold and it worked great! I tossed the slotted parts from before, and redid them with less slots (1/2" apart) and not as deep. I also did some cementing, it breaks down into 4 parts for cleaning. I hit 71% efficiency, which is a little higher than what I was getting with the braid. I got clear runnings after 2 qts, but did 6 qts for good measure. It drained quickly and smoothly.

Thanks everybody for the suggestions!