Thanks. I've order my grains and hops so will brew it this weekend if they arrive on time.
One more question: As there is no dry hops in this recipe, is dry hopping generally not done with a traditional English bitter?
Strong Bitter Common Room ESB
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Thanks. I've order my grains and hops so will brew it this weekend if they arrive on time.
One more question: As there is no dry hops in this recipe, is dry hopping generally not done with a traditional English bitter?
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KingBrianI
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Dry hopping is fairly common in bitters, though not nearly to the level of most american IPAs. It definitely wouldn't hurt to dry hop this beer, if that's the direction you want to go. But probably keep it to 0.5 oz or less.
borden
Well-Known Member
This beer gets better and better. I've been drinking these for a few weeks, or maybe a month now, and I'm down to six or seven left -- tonight I had the best yet! Aesthetically stunning, too. Going to rebrew this soon. Thanks again.
LarsonLE
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So the highest caramel malt my LHBS had was Caramel 120. I grabbed 0.25 lb of that. Do you think this will work? Should I grab something else to compensate for the lack of color that the higher caramel would have given the beer?
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KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
C120 will be fine. The beer will be slightly lighter in color but it will still taste great. If you want to get the color back, you can add an ounce or so of a dark grain like chocolate malt, black patent or roasted barley. At that small an amount, you won't taste it.
D_Ranged_Eskimo
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After all of the rave reviews, I'm going to try this on Sunday. Hopefully the LHBS will have all of the neccessary ingredients for this baby.
fenners
Well-Known Member
Keen to try this out as I've got some Kent Golding hops sitting in the freezer & I love ESBs.... Anyone got a good partial mash version of it?
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KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
What's your mash capacity? Just mash as much maris otter you can fit with the crystal malts. Then use 0.6 lb of light DME for each pound of maris otter you couldn't fit.
You may want to adjust the FWH addition amount based on your process:
Add more FWHs if doing a partial boil.
Add less FWHs if doing a late extract addition.
etc.
Good luck!
D_Ranged_Eskimo
Well-Known Member
Hey king, are you using Crystal 40L and 120L American, or are you able to find UK style grains for the Crystal?
fenners
Well-Known Member
I'm using a 5gallon pot, usually mashing about 2 1/2 pounds of grain. So far, it's all been kits from AHS (my local store) so this is breaking new ground for
me
Crisp Maris Otter 10 lbs, 0 oz
Crisp Crystal Malt 60L 0 lbs, 12 oz
Crisp Crystal Malt 120L 0 lbs, 4 oz
So, 1lb for the malt, maybe 2 pounds of Maris Otter, leaving 7lb of LME? I'll be using LME as I can get it nice & fresh from AHS in-store. "Extra Pale" work?
You may want to adjust the FWH addition amount based on your process:
Add more FWHs if doing a partial boil.
Add less FWHs if doing a late extract addition.
etc.
Good luck!
I haven't done First Wort Hops... Another new step
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KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
I always use british malts for my british beers. American crystal malts will work, but they don't taste quite the same. I suggest anyone making this recipe use british crystal as a first option, but if they are unavailable, the american crystal malts can be substituted.
I'm using a 5gallon pot, usually mashing about 2 1/2 pounds of grain. So far, it's all been kits from AHS (my local store) so this is breaking new ground for
me
Crisp Maris Otter 10 lbs, 0 oz
Crisp Crystal Malt 60L 0 lbs, 12 oz
Crisp Crystal Malt 120L 0 lbs, 4 oz
So, 1lb for the malt, maybe 2 pounds of Maris Otter, leaving 7lb of LME? I'll be using LME as I can get it nice & fresh from AHS in-store. "Extra Pale" work?
I haven't done First Wort Hops... Another new step
If you can mash 2.5 lbs, then I'd mash 1.5 lbs maris otter with the crystal, and add 6 lbs 6 oz of the extra pale LME to the boil.
The 1.5 lbs of maris otter really isn't going to add much though, so you can also just steep the crystal malts and add 7.5 lbs LME.
Either way will make good beer.
D_Ranged_Eskimo
Well-Known Member
Hey Fenners, going to brew this beer this weekend. We should make a trade when our beers are done and see what the differences in taste are. I'm about an hour and half south of ya in northern SA/Bulverde.
fenners
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I might just go with the steep. A little more money for the extra extract, but a simpler brew.
That might just work
You doing an all-grain?
D_Ranged_Eskimo
Well-Known Member
That might just work
Yeah, second all-grain here. I wanted something with a simple grain bill. Tried a wheat on the first one, and well, it looked like cream of wheat when I got done!
fenners
Well-Known Member
Grabbed my grain, LME & yeasties from AHS yesterday. Love having that place so close to work... Will get my starter going tomorrow ahead of brewing it on Monday.
D_Ranged_Eskimo
Well-Known Member
What a nightmare!!! I had 3 stuck sparges over the weekend, but I think I finally got my false bottom set up correctly now. 3rd times the charm I suppose. I ended up mashing around 156 (a little high but hopefully didn't create too many complex sugars) and used 11# MO. The LHBS had medium and dark british grains, so that was a plus. OG came out to 1.054, but i used 1 oz first gold since they didn't have any EKG. She was bubbling away this morning, so we will see how it comes out.
fenners
Well-Known Member
Brew done!
Grains steeped, 0.5oz of EKG as FWH, did 1/3 of the 7.5lbs for the 60 minute boil with the rest at 15m. OG was ~1.057 it looked like. Using WLP005 with a nice looking starter.
I used all East Kent Golding as that's what I had handy Need to buy some Fuggles as I like my EPA/ESBs...
Grains steeped, 0.5oz of EKG as FWH, did 1/3 of the 7.5lbs for the 60 minute boil with the rest at 15m. OG was ~1.057 it looked like. Using WLP005 with a nice looking starter.
I used all East Kent Golding as that's what I had handy
Need to buy some Fuggles as I like my EPA/ESBs...brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
Picked up the ingredients for this one yesterday. My LHBS had UK pale malt but only US crystal malt so I had to go that route. Looking forward to brewing this next weekend. This will be my first attempt using washed yeast. I will be using WLP007 Dry English Ale. Since it attenuates slightly higher than WLP002 should I mash higher to compensate for that?
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KingBrianI
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LarsonLE
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So I brewed this beer a week ago, and fermentation started 12 hours after pitching, and then 24 hours after that it was done and had an FG of 1.013 (safale 04 is insane). However, I just sampled my ESB, and I've got to say I'm really disappointed. I think I'm tasting a fusel alcohol off flavor, and I have no freaking clue how this happened. I fermented at 63-67 degrees, I think maybe at one point it got up to 70 degrees, but isn't that okay? The only mistake I can think I did was pitching the yeast when the yeast was too warm, however I did cool my wort all the way down to 68.
I hope this off flavor disappears after sitting in the fermenter for another two weeks, but I have a feeling this off flavor isn't going to go away, and if so I'm going to have to dump it.
I hope this off flavor disappears after sitting in the fermenter for another two weeks, but I have a feeling this off flavor isn't going to go away, and if so I'm going to have to dump it
.borden
Well-Known Member
So I brewed this beer a week ago, and fermentation started 12 hours after pitching, and then 24 hours after that it was done and had an FG of 1.013 (safale 04 is insane). However, I just sampled my ESB, and I've got to say I'm really disappointed. I think I'm tasting a fusel alcohol off flavor, and I have no freaking clue how this happened. I fermented at 63-67 degrees, I think maybe at one point it got up to 70 degrees, but isn't that okay? The only mistake I can think I did was pitching the yeast when the yeast was too warm, however I did cool my wort all the way down to 68.
I hope this off flavor disappears after sitting in the fermenter for another two weeks, but I have a feeling this off flavor isn't going to go away, and if so I'm going to have to dump it
I know this isn't that helpful, but really, a week is so little time... check again at three weeks, or even wait four, and then see where it's at. Usually works out for me.
Though it's worth asking: was the 70F the ambient temp or the actual beer temp?
LarsonLE
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70 degrees was the highest it got on the fermometer
drkaeppel
Well-Known Member
I brewed this one several months back. Not sure if I recall the same flavor you are describing, but this one took quite a while before it started tasting really good. Mine had an unpleasant, lingering bitterness for almost six weeks after I bottled it. I'm down to my last six pack now and it tastes great. Fairly dry, but you can pick up on all the malt flavor. The bitterness has mellowed now as well.
Hope yours turns out! I suspect it will given enough time.
SpudMurphy
New Member
Brewed this on Sunday - it was my first all grain batch. Dead happy with how it went - all according to plan - what a relief!! Anyway, stuck it in the fermentor with an OG of 1.05? (couldn't quite get the last digit and was nervous about potential contamination, so I thought 2 decimal places would do, and I closed the lid...). After 2 days the airlock stopped bubbling - seems like a good, quick fermentation with the S-04. Temp was steady around 18-19 C (Irish here - don't do your funny/imperial units ).
Just wondering at what stage you recommend transferring to a secondary (or, is it even necessary)? Primary is a plastic bucket, have a 23 L glass carboy as a potential secondary. Batch yield was 21 L - little lower than expected but sure no matter. I guess the question here is does the 2L airspace in the carboy pose a threat with regards oxidation of my brew?
Cheers,
Spud
).Just wondering at what stage you recommend transferring to a secondary (or, is it even necessary)? Primary is a plastic bucket, have a 23 L glass carboy as a potential secondary. Batch yield was 21 L - little lower than expected but sure no matter. I guess the question here is does the 2L airspace in the carboy pose a threat with regards oxidation of my brew?
Cheers,
Spud
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KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Brewed this on Sunday - it was my first all grain batch. Dead happy with how it went - all according to plan - what a relief!! Anyway, stuck it in the fermentor with an OG of 1.05? (couldn't quite get the last digit and was nervous about potential contamination, so I thought 2 decimal places would do, and I closed the lid...). After 2 days the airlock stopped bubbling - seems like a good, quick fermentation with the S-04. Temp was steady around 18-19 C (Irish here - don't do your funny/imperial units
Just wondering at what stage you recommend transferring to a secondary (or, is it even necessary)? Primary is a plastic bucket, have a 23 L glass carboy as a potential secondary. Batch yield was 21 L - little lower than expected but sure no matter. I guess the question here is does the 2L airspace in the carboy pose a threat with regards oxidation of my brew?
Cheers,
Spud
Secondary is not necessary but you can use one if you like. As for when to transfer it to secondary/serving vessel, I recommend tasting the beer. If it tastes good and the gravity has stopped dropping, I say go ahead and transfer. If there are any unpleasant fermentation byproducts still present in the flavor (large amounts of diacetyl, a sulfurous quality, etc.) or the gravity has not quite stopped dropping, then leave it in the primary for another day or two then taste again. I've found this is the key to producing flavorful ales. If left in the primary too long, the yeast will clean it up too much and a lot of the esters and malt flavors reduce more than I like in bitters.
Graeme
Well-Known Member
Brewed this on Sunday - it was my first all grain batch. Dead happy with how it went - all according to plan - what a relief!! Anyway, stuck it in the fermentor with an OG of 1.05? (couldn't quite get the last digit and was nervous about potential contamination, so I thought 2 decimal places would do, and I closed the lid...). After 2 days the airlock stopped bubbling - seems like a good, quick fermentation with the S-04. Temp was steady around 18-19 C (Irish here - don't do your funny/imperial units
Just wondering at what stage you recommend transferring to a secondary (or, is it even necessary)? Primary is a plastic bucket, have a 23 L glass carboy as a potential secondary. Batch yield was 21 L - little lower than expected but sure no matter. I guess the question here is does the 2L airspace in the carboy pose a threat with regards oxidation of my brew?
Cheers,
Spud
Did you take the OG before you transferred it to the primary fermenter? How come you couldn't get the last two digits? I almost never secondary. A beer like this definitely doesn't require it. Personally I would leave this in the primary for three weeks before bottling it. The airspace in the fermenter poses no threat what so ever as there is a blanket of co2 covering the beer from fermentation. The oxidiation worries only really begin with what you do with it after fermentation, ie: transferring to secondary and at bottling.
SpudMurphy
New Member
Took the OG just before pitching the yeast - there was a bit of froth / material on the surface which obscured the graduations on the hydrometer somewhat. If I was to hazard a guess I would say it was between 1.052 and 1.055.
It was the airspace in the secondary fermenter I was referring to - I was just wondering if the 2L headspace would be something to be concerned about, given that I have no CO2 to purge it with. If the secondary fermentation isn't essential (other than that which will occur after bottling) I'd be happy enough to leave it as is in the primary where there is no threat of oxidation.
Sure I'll proceed as is for the three weeks and have a taste.
Looking forward to it. I'll be bottling on St. Paddys day at this rate!
It was the airspace in the secondary fermenter I was referring to - I was just wondering if the 2L headspace would be something to be concerned about, given that I have no CO2 to purge it with. If the secondary fermentation isn't essential (other than that which will occur after bottling) I'd be happy enough to leave it as is in the primary where there is no threat of oxidation.
Sure I'll proceed as is for the three weeks and have a taste.
Looking forward to it. I'll be bottling on St. Paddys day at this rate!
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
Brewing this tonight, finally. My yeast starter is very active right now so I am trying to give it more time.
j1rubin
Active Member
just brewed this - hit 1.050 - looks pretty tasty
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
oops! Just finished brewing this one and got better efficiency than I expected. Ended up at 1.060. I normally get 72% but it bumped up to 76%, probably because I dialed in my water and used some acid malt. Either way, everything went smooth and the color looks amazing. Can't wait to try it!
j1rubin
Active Member
awesome - mine is going nuts right now in the fermentor. had to attach a blowoff tube this morning.
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
I started with a blow off just in case. It's chugging away like a champ this morning.
bmason1623
Well-Known Member
KB, what do you think about using 1768 Scottish Ale yeast for your recipe?
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KingBrianI
Well-Known Member
Hmm, I guess it depends on your intention. When fermented cool like usual, the Scottish yeast won't produce enough esters and malt flavors for me in an ESB. If you would like a cleaner ESB, go for it though. I'm not familiar with the flavors it produces at normal ale temps.
If you were intending to produce more of a scottish ale with this recipe, the hops are a bit heavy. By moving the FWH to a 60 minute addition and dropping the late hops, it would make a pretty good scottish style ale.
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
What is the typical turn around time for this beer? I would think since it uses a high floc yeast it would be ready to keg after a two week primary.
What kind of FGs are people hitting with this recipe? Looks like mine ended at 1.020 and is sickly sweet. I discovered this while bottling and freaked out that it wasn't done and thought that I might have bottle bombs. My reaction compounded my mistake and may have ruined the batch (see this thread). My first time using S04. I've gathered that S04 has a lower attenuation than my usual US05 but I wasn't expecting this. Anyone else end up with sweet beer?
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KingBrianI
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Hey Aidan, sorry to hear about your trouble with the recipe. The lower than expected attenuation could be due to a number of factors, many of which were covered on the other thread. I'll also submit a few more ideas including insufficient aeration of the wort before pitching, temperature shock to the yeast when pitching, temperature fluctuations in the primary, an old or improperly stored package of yeast, etc. As you can see, it will probably be hard to narrow the cause down to one thing. S04 is a more flocculative yeast than us05 and if submitted to a sudden drop in temperature, the yeast will sometimes have the tendency to drop out of suspension and stop fermenting. That the gravity hasn't changed since pouring the bottles back into the fermenter (even after being subjected to oxygenation and given a snack of priming sugar) leads me to believe that the beer is done fermenting (whether due to unfermentable sugars or tired and unhealthy yeast). Definitely don't dump the beer. I wouldn't be as worried about oxidation of the beer as much as the possibility bacteria or mold was introduced in the process of pouring the beer back into the fermenter. If the gravity hasn't moved when you next check it, I'd say bottle it back up and hope for the best.
PS. Did you adjust the hopping rates based on your process? For instance, upping the bittering hops if you did a partial boil, etc? A low bitterness could lead to the impression of an overly-sweet beer.
PS. Did you adjust the hopping rates based on your process? For instance, upping the bittering hops if you did a partial boil, etc? A low bitterness could lead to the impression of an overly-sweet beer.
The measured FG of 1.020 matches the sweetness so I'm quite sure it's not lack of bitterness but that all the sugars that should have fermented out didn't. Of your ideas on the cause of the lower attenuation, the only one that rings a bell is the temp flucuation issue. I normally brew in a fridge and keep temp pretty tight but fridge was taken up with another brew in my main fermentor. This 2nd fermentor that I only use when I have 2 batches on the go at the same time didn't even have a temp strip so I was operating a bit blind on temp. I had my fermenter insulated with a towel and a jacket and used a few ice packs to help keep the temp around 18C (but it was guesswork since I didn't have a temp strip). So temp flucuation is a posibility. However I would have expected the yeast to go back into action when the temp is right.
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KingBrianI
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Something a lot of people forget (or never learned in the first place) is that the long-chain unfermentable sugars are not sweet. A beer that finishes at 1.020, but that has no more fermentable sugars left should not taste overly sweet. That's why I suggested the bitterness as a cause for your impression of high sweetness. If temp fluctuation occured though, that could be the problem. And it isn't always as simple as warming the temp back up and the yeast start up again. If they became unhappy for some reason, they may have just called it quits early, and no amount of warming will convince them otherwise.
brew2enjoy
Well-Known Member
kegged mine today. Taste test was really good!
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