Can base grain be bad?

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telebrewer

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This my second attempt with this grain, organic Gambrinus pale malt. The first batch with this grain turned out terrible. Undrinkable. Like it was infected. I've never had an infected batch. So this time, extra attention to sanitation. The picture is 7 days fermenting. It looks just like the first time. It looks like orange juice and super cloudy. I've also never had a beer this color. I did a 60 minute boil. So that should have killed anything up until that point. Can grain go bad and be unusable to brew with? I'm pi$$ed because this was a super hopped I.P.A. Waste off hops...Any thoughts on this?

DSC_0014.jpg
 
That doesn't look like it's infected.... Looks like clarity might be a problem though. I'd let this sit for at least one more week before possibly transferring to a secondary. May just take longer for the beer to clear up on its own. You may also want to consider looking into using gelatin or another clarifying agent to help with the process. Did you use Irish Moss during the last 15 minutes of the boil? If not, do so next time. Really helps with clarity in the final product.
 
Maybe you don't like the Gambrinus.

Base grain can be bad, usually a result of age, insect degredation, or poor moisture handling and mold. Rare, but possible.

More likely you don't like the Gambrinus.
 
I had a Blonde that never cleared. The only thing I can think of was my vorlauf technique, and even then I would think that it would eventually clear.

Can you post the recipe and stuff? 7 days it really not that long for some beers.
 
I've never used Gambrinus. Why wouldn't I like it? It's organic, and I am trying to make organic beer now. Here's what I did:

15# Gambrinus pale malt
.5# Carapils
.5 Crystal 15

1 oz. Magnum @ 60
1 oz. Challenger @40
1 oz. Summit @ 15
2 oz. Summit @ flame out
1 oz. Cascade @ 20 mins. into cool down

1 tsp. Irish moss @ 13 min.

yeast- WLP-001

60 min. boil

pre-boil gravity 1.050
after-boil gravity 1.060
about 70% efficiency
I'll draw off some tonight and taste it...
 
Some people just don't like the flavor of this or that malt. Kinda like 6-row. Lots of people just don't like the "grainy" flavor it has, regardless of the other issues associated with it. Some say this about basic American 2-row brewers malt.

Some just swear at Briess products.

So, maybe, just maybe you don't like the "organic" character of this malt. I am always suspicious of the use of teh term "organic" anyway. That is all I am saying.
 
Yep, bad grain. Tasted it tonight, same bad taste as the first time. Beware of organic Gambrieus pale malt. I'm dumping it. Glad I sampled before bottling. Super cloudy too. The picture is after one week in fermentation...

DSC_0004.jpg
 
What does it taste like?

don't dump it. bottle it or keg it or whatever you do, then forget about it. Try it again in a few months.
 
It taste like sour mustard. The exact same taste as the first time I brewed with this grain. It's a trip because I've never had this happen before. So, I'm going to brew with the grain from the LHBS and be happy. Believe me, I'm not going to bottle it or keg it. Second time shame on me...
 
hmm. I have never heard of a sour mustard flavor. I am not even sure what I would equate that too as far as flaws that I do know.

If your thing is to go organic, you should look up 7 bridges cooperative. They are my LHBS, but do a bit of online as well. They are strictly organic. Not my personal cup of tea, but if that is what you want to do they are definitely worth looking up.
 
O.K. how about just sour. Sour and dry, real dry. Chalky. I mashed at 152 average so I don't think it should be too dry. The taste is tart I guess. And by the way, it was bought from 7 bridges co-op in June. Organic...
 
sour usually means infection.

That is pretty funny that you got it from 7 bridges. I know they have a pretty good name in the organic brewing circles. Though, like I said, I don't get my ingredients from them.
 
Sour sure sounds like some potential bacteria. Was the yeast fresh from new vials both times or is it previosuly harvested/washed yeast?

Damn sorry to hear a heavily hopped beer went south on you. Hops costing what they do and all.

An earlier poster asked if you had more of the grain to taste some raw. Were you able to try that? You might also make a small 1qt tea with some as well.
 
sour usually means infection.

That is pretty funny that you got it from 7 bridges. I know they have a pretty good name in the organic brewing circles. Though, like I said, I don't get my ingredients from them.

Sour sure sounds like some potential bacteria. Was the yeast fresh from new vials both times or is it previosuly harvested/washed yeast?

Damn sorry to hear a heavily hopped beer went south on you. Hops costing what they do and all.

An earlier poster asked if you had more of the grain to taste some raw. Were you able to try that? You might also make a small 1qt tea with some as well.


I agree.. I've never had WLP 001 get that low of OG.
 
I agree.. I've never had WLP 001 get that low of OG.

Wow! Yeah I missed that the first time I looked at the hydro. I thought I saw 1.016, but that is 1.006. WLP001 normally wouldn't go that low. You may have had a wild yeast assist there. Good eye Mustangj.
 
sour mustard sounds like lacto infection. the last hop addition is suspicious. your hops could definitely have carried some bugs into your cooling wort. hops aren't germicidal, though some may disagree.dry hop in secondary after the pH has dropped and theres some alcohol content. you'll get more aroma this way anyhow.
 
Obviously, it's infected. Not the grain...So, is it the dry hopping? My wort chiller doesn't get submerged all the way during the last 15 minutes of the boil. Could that be it? The fermenter is definitely clean and sanitized... All equipment is sanitized with it...I'm at a loss. I use Iodophor. Signed Super Bummed...
 
Well the first thing is to do a very anal sanitizing of everything that touches the brew. Paddles, spoons, hydrometer, fermentor etc. I do not use iodophor, but double check that you are using it in the correct concentration and for the correct length of time.

As to the wort chiller, how big a brew pot are you boiling in? The fact that it is not fully submerged during the boil could very well be your problem. Is it a 50ft chiller? You may need to chop a couple turns off of it if it sits to high in the kettle. The wort splashing up onto it could be a prime area for nasties to take hold.

On the hops I assume you are adding into cool down to try to preserve some of the aromatic oils. You might want to try another method. I have heard on some podcasts that some poeple make a hop tea in a french press for such purposes. You can either mix up a small batch of low OG DME or maybe use second runnings from your sparge. You boil it for 15 minutes. Let it cool to maybe 180-190 degrees then put it in a sanitized French press with your hops for 10-15 minutes. You can then add this to your wort once it is cooled down preserving some of the aromatic oils.

Your other choice is to up the flame-out addition or dry hopping schedule.
 
I doubt the chiller is the issue - copper conducts heat really well, the top of the chiller probably got hot enough. the late hops is the only thing I can think of, assuming you're good about overall sanitation. I'm happier with star san than iodophor, simply for ease of use. you might consider a switch.
 
That chiller does look kinda nasty. I realize it's probably oxidation or lime, but I'd hesitate to put that in my wort.

The acidic wort usually shines my copper up, then I spray it down real good with hot water and let it dry. If it does get visible deposits I boil it in water with a couple ounces of vinegar to clean it up.
 
I forgot to call the maltster today, but after seeing that chiller..... I don't think I need to. You need to do some real house cleaning on that bad boy. A 15 min soak in vinegar and water will help. Ya I would never put that thing in my wort, looken like that.
Just my .02
Jay
p.s I am still calling the maltster
 
I've never used Gambrinus. Why wouldn't I like it? It's organic, and I am trying to make organic beer now. Here's what I did:

15# Gambrinus pale malt
.5# Carapils
.5 Crystal 15

1 oz. Magnum @ 60
1 oz. Challenger @40
1 oz. Summit @ 15
2 oz. Summit @ flame out
1 oz. Cascade @ 20 mins. into cool down

1 tsp. Irish moss @ 13 min.

yeast- WLP-001

60 min. boil

pre-boil gravity 1.050
after-boil gravity 1.060
about 70% efficiency
I'll draw off some tonight and taste it...

Where did you get the organic hops?
 
I'd scrub that chiller up with some white vinegar and see if it helps.

Once you get it cleaned then just spray or soak it in starsan or whatever for a few minute before you put it in to cool the wort.

Edit: Sorry, just notice that vinegar was already mention not once but twice.
What can I say...I went to public school...I read good. :)
 
If it were me, I would look at your cold side first. Don't get me wrong, it couldn't hurt to clean that chiller, but anything hot side is never my first suspect for infection. Since the chiller gets a 15 minute boil, that heat should be enough to render any non submerged nasties useless.

I would look at how much iodophor you are using and for how long (I use Iodophor and love it), then look at everything down to your airlocks. Make sure they are all clean and sanitized. Anything that can come apart should be pulled apart and cleaned, then sanitized.

Also, on your dry hop, when do you add the hops? immediately when they get to pitching temp or a few days into fermentation? I always let the beer become alcoholic before I dry hop. Hops can still harbor some beasties and you want to make sure that your beasties are the ones that have the strong footing.

That is my .02
 
One thing you could do to help with sanitation with respect to your wort chiller is to soak it in boiling wort about 10 minutes before flameout. That will sanitize it and reduce chances of infection. But yeah, before you brew your next batch, definitely give that chiller a good scrub. Sanitary or not, that copper oxide can't be good in beer. Does anybody know if the presence of copper oxide in the beer might do something to the yeast during fermentation? Just a thought.
 
I ended up whit 2 bags of Gambrinus on our last group malt order when it was subbed in for the Rahr I had ordered. One bag was almost all husk. I got lousy efficiency and the beer wasn't all that good. I'll never accept Gambrinus again.
 
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