is there Homebrew supply store etiquette?

I went to buy a starter kit from the homebrew store in my town. The store employee seemed rather cranky with my questions. I waited patiently for 30 minutes while she helped 2 other people. I didn't touch anything. I basically looked over book shelves, to see if there was a brewing book I wanted to buy. When I finaly got service. The employee seemed rather annoyed when I asked about a ballpark figure on startup equipment and an easy recipe kit. The way the employee was acting, I must have done something wrong, to have the person making it pretty clear they didn't care about my business.

Ah yes, the "we are to cool for you" it's like tattoo parlors some are cool sme are asses and most it's hit or miss.

Maybe you did 'do something'. Tone, body language--- any number of things could have given the clerk a negative impression.

Or it could have totally not been about you. Maybe the clerk was having a bad day or was supposed to be off but her relief hadn't shown up yet.

Or maybe your impression of the clerk was wrong. Maybe you didn't realize how irritated the 30 minute wait had made you and you were being overly sensitive and misinterpreting the clerk.

*shrug* If it were me I'd chalk it up to **** happens and move on.

Or maybe the level of customer service that you enjoyed or didn't enjoy degraded to the point where it really did suck. I'm just saying customer service just ain't what it used to be.

Bring in a couple of bottles of something yummy and share it with the staff and other shoppers. Instant cred.

i'm pretty new at this, but my LHBS guys seem to go out of their way to help.

They even gave me a business card and told me to call if i had any questions before, during or after the brew.

I have been to a LHBS here in my hometown and had the same experience you describe. The guy was not very friendly or forthcoming with information. When I would ask a question I would get a very generic one word answer. I was in need of supplies so made a small purchase. I have been back a few times to get things I need and the guy now recognizes me and is much more friendly. But I have also visited a HBS about 40 miles from my home town where they are very fiendly and extremely willing to answer questions and help in any way they can. That is the place I am taking my business. I used to order most everything online but decided I would like to support a local HBS if the cost was close to comparable. Needless to say I drive the 40 miles and have spent several hundred dollars there over the past couple of months that I could have spent at the shop in my hometown if the guy would have just been a little bit service oriented.

Cheesefood said:

Bring in a couple of bottles of something yummy and share it with the staff and other shoppers. Instant cred.

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WERD. just make sure it's cool before taking the bottles in the shop.

As much I like to support local business, there are too many good retailers online for me to put up with crappy service and bad attitudes.

If you didn't get satisfactory answers, ask your questions here and we'll help you get into a setup and get you going.

Welcome to the forum!

Customer is King in my book. I agree with Swami75. Ask your questions here, buy your stuff online. I've purchased from Morebeer.com, Williamsbrewing.com, Grapeandgranary.com, and Breworganic.com recently and each was a great transaction. I am fortunate to live in Austin where I have a great HBS with loads of helpful folks.

This forum has been a tremendous help in my getting back in the game too!

Stores that treat customers that way obviously don't want your business.

I agree with the above. I love my LHBS, but there are some things that they either:
1. Don't carry or
2. Too expensive (Used Corny Kegs, Chillers etc.)

Those things I either buy online or make myself.

It is very nice to just go in for a few ingredients and chat, and taste some brew. That is something you can't quite do with online stores.

If I ran a LHBS, it would seem like principle number one would be offer great customer service.

Obviously, a local store is highly unlikely to be able to compete with morebeer or northern brewer, et al, on price and selection. Seems like you've got to offer something they can't, which would be personal customer service, advice, etc.

The local place here is great, but 30 mins. away by car. I went there to get my initial setup, ingredients, cleaners, etc.

They were wonderful about me asking questions, not rushing me with the dozens of things I was trying to remember, etc. The first time I was there, the guy took me in the back and showed me the U-Brew area and gave me a taste of some wonderful brew from the kegerator (very hoppy!)

I definitely support them. If they were asses, I would quietly take my business elsewhere. It is essential for homebrew businesses to survive, that they keep getting new customers, otherwise, all they'd ever sell is ingredients and maintenance items. If they treat newcomers poorly, they're shooting themselves in the foot.

Another thumbs up for my LHBS (fortunately). They are always willing to help and they encourage phone calls to ask questions...which is the wrong thing to tell me

I haven't found the prices too bad (yet). Everyone I've net there has been very friendly and helpful.

Tommy

ryanme said:

I went to buy a starter kit from the homebrew store in my town. The store employee seemed rather cranky with my questions. I waited patiently for 30 minutes while she helped 2 other people. I didn't touch anything. I basically looked over book shelves, to see if there was a brewing book I wanted to buy. When I finaly got service. The employee seemed rather annoyed when I asked about a ballpark figure on startup equipment and an easy recipe kit. The way the employee was acting, I must have done something wrong, to have the person making it pretty clear they didn't care about my business.

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She's just pissed because she probably makes minimum wage. Little does she know she COULD provide excellent customer service which would boost sales which would qualify her for a raise. I can't stand pessimistic effs!

Yeah, my LHBS is great! I'm new to brewing, and I've only been in once, but it was a good experience. I asked about getting some equipment and he walked me through all the pieces. He even threw in White Labs liquid yeast because he said it would work better than the dry in the kit (no charge).

When it came time to pick a recipe, I couldn't decide on what I wanted to brew. He went into the back and came back with some samples of his own for me and SWMBO to try.

He said I could call for troubleshooting and help if I ever got stuck. As soon as I'm ready for my next batch I'm going to be sure to go there again.

Sounds like your local store needs some new employees!

bootytrapper said:

She's just pissed because she probably makes minimum wage. Little does she know she COULD provide excellent customer service which would boost sales which would qualify her for a raise. I can't stand pessimistic effs!

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Very true. I had money in my pocket for 2 starter kits, a couple of batches of ingredients, bottles, and a keg system. I have wanted to do this for a couple of years now. My wife told me to get a hobby other than my computer.

I am going to go to a city to the south of me that has a shop tomorrow. I have three questions that I could use some answers to.

I was reading a thread on these forums about wheat beer not needing a secondary fermentation. is that true? If so is that for all grain only or does that go for extract brewing too?

Question 2 What is a good (hopefully simple) starter beer?

question 3 Do different beers have different ferment durations?

I really like my HBS. Soon as I walk in, they are offering to help, but don't push if I tell them that I'm just looking around. Seem to have a real good supply, hasn't been anything that I've looked for that they haven't had and they've got lots of stuff I see in some more esoteric recipes. They only have people who are brewers who work there, and they are more than happy to look over my recipes. Made the offer to call with any questions. When I bought a bunch of bulky stuff my first trip (carboy, bottles, ingredient kits, lots of stuff like that), he loaded it all up on a handtruck and brought it out to my car for me. Certainly didn't need to do that, but it was nice of him.

The owner comes on our local NPR station every couple of months and does "The Beer Show" with a few other local guys; if anyone has any interest, the next one is this Friday at 2:00 at www.wamc.org.

Just seems like a good place, just wish it didn't take an hour to get there!

I've only had one bad experience out of the seven stores I've been to. Two of the locals aren't very helpful, but it's because they really cater to the commercial wine/brewing industry & retail is just a sideline. There's one place where the owner is always busy with something else, even if I'm the only customer. The main place I use is over an hour away, but the owner & employees are very helpful.

The place I used in California was easily the best. All employees were homebrewers and many of them also did wine. There was always a few of their beers on tap for samples. And even though they made most of their money off of the wine season, their brewing business was year round and they enjoyed.

Unfortunately, samples are not an option in Oregon.

I've had a good experience and a bad experience with LHBS. The one bad experience was truly bad. I was just returning to the hobby and buying some ingredients, etc. I expected him to walk me through the process to ensure I had all the equipment, etc. Instead I got the dumb, blank stare while I asked for the next item. No thank you, no goodbye, no "bring a bottle in when it's done". I won't go back.

On the other hand, the LHBS guy I visited way back when was more then helpful the next day when I decided I wanted to make a second recipe. More than helpful, made sure I had this and that...seemed to know what got lost when your not in the hobby for a while. Thanked me for my business, helped me with some of the things I bought and walking them to the truck. And he darn-near ordered me to bring some brew back next-visit. Phone calls are no issue and he lists his home-phone (I think) on his website for those evening brew sessions where something goes wrong.

There are two shops within 1/2 hour of my house.

I went to one and was totally turned off. First, the shop was crazy dirty. The guy was not interested in answering any questions. Even when I inquired to the prices of his different kits, he just gave me a range and referred me to his website. Why would I want to check the site, I'm standing in the store?? They do have a very nice selection of cold micro brews. I bought a mixed sixer and decided I likely wasn't going back for anything else.

Then I went to the second one. Whew, what a relief. This guy was friendly and was eager to answer questions. Hell, he was answering questions before I even asked them. I started out by saying that I was just looking and that I would buy my equipment another day (my scapegoat). By the time I was done talking with him I decided to buy then and there. He even knocked $10 off of my total. :rockin: He even told me that I could call anytime that I have questions. Yup, no desire to visit the first guy anymore.

It seems, from reading these stories, that at least half the HBS guys out there really have no clue how to serve their customers.

What the hell? I don't get it... it's frickin' Business 101. Is it because they think they have a near-monopoly on the biz (forgetting about the online sites?) Are they just snobs, pure and simple? Have they become jaded after years of seeing their hobby become just a business? Does the joy of homebrewing go away?

I really, really just don't get it. It's a tough business, but so many of these guys seem to make it a LOT tougher than it needs to be.

the_bird said:

It seems, from reading these stories, that at least half the HBS guys out there really have no clue how to serve their customers.

What the hell? I don't get it... it's frickin' Business 101. Is it because they think they have a near-monopoly on the biz (forgetting about the online sites?) Are they just snobs, pure and simple? Have they become jaded after years of seeing their hobby become just a business? Does the joy of homebrewing go away?

I really, really just don't get it. It's a tough business, but so many of these guys seem to make it a LOT tougher than it needs to be.

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I have two LHBS.

One that sells mostly beer and wine and has a little section of homebrew supplies (mainly extract and specialty grains). So they are not interested in me too much when I go in there. So they seem like snobs

On the other hand, my other LHBS sells ONLY homebrewing supplies so he has no choice but to provide excellent customer service. If he didn't, well he wouldn't be in business very long now would he!

I think there are a few types of stores that are like that. Unfortunately, gun shops fall into that category also. Some of them are really nice and helpful, but a big percentage of them like to look down on you.

I wasn't real crazy about the at my LHBS when I first went in, but as he's gotten used to seeing me he's become very helpful and even friendly. Still has a bit of condescending air about him. I'm just all about buying local so I can put up with it. He is actually very willing to give advice, though.

I've been going to my LHBS for 10 years. The owner is a nice guy but he has a few pet peeves. If you spill grain you clean it up, if you open the glass doors of the fridge make sure you know what you want and get it quick, if the door is open 1 second longer then it needs to be he lets you know. He is very helpful to new brewers and he doesn't mind me helping out and giving advise to his customers.

Its the only brewshop that carries everything thats even close to me and it is 40 miles one way.

my LHBS is online. Not too bad, I usually get everything the next day. But my computer screen never talks down to me so I guess I can live with that. It does suck to need something and just not be able to get it until tomorrow though.

My guy's service is so good, and has been from Day One, I don't have any idea how his prices compare to elsewhere.

Oh, and I am on board with those who think it is good customer etiquette to bring in a couple from a current batch when getting ready to acquire ingredients for the next. It always seems to be appreciated.

My local shop is about a 45 min drive away, but that beats the 5 day wait from online retailers. Plus, It's a nice drive through some nice country, once I'm north of Poughkeepsie. It is literally a mom and pop shop in a log cabin of sorts, nestled back in the woods. It's kind of like stepping back into late 60's rural Upstate NY era (the place is minuites from Woodstock, btw). The prices are maybe inflated 10% from online megastores but I get some good advice and never leave without a little buzz and some good beer flavors on my pallette. The guy has what we call a "calibrated pallette" and is very good at critiquing my brews, as well as explaining everything you would ever want to know about grain, which he cracks free of charge.
If times are busy I'll still order online but if I have a free day and an low on supplies, I'll hit up the good old LHBS.

RYANME,

Where do you live? You'd be surprised, there may be someone here that lives near you that could recommend a home brew store.

I am a big fan of the local home brew store simply because my experience with HomeBrew Headquarters in Richardson, Texas has been so incredible. Every time I go in to get something they give me tips for how to use it, things to watch out for, etc. If I have a question they are quick to answer.

However, if you're not getting that sort of service then don't go to the LHBS.

I have two LHBS near me and I have mixed feelings about one of them. One of the shops just bought a defunct local microbrewery and has been in the process of moving in and setteling in for 2 months?! They will have a 10bbl system when all is said and done. Anywho, the thing is they are hit or miss. The owner is awesome, he is always friendly and very prompt with service. He usually will give me small items $2 or less for free with the knowledge that I will be a return customer, and I am...I just call ahead to make sure he is there. The other 2 "helpers" are pretty much worthless. They have 0 knowledge of their inventory, and generally treat me as a nuisance. I have called and spoken to one of them, been assured of that the item was in stock only to arrive and told that they no longer carry the item...WTF! Needless to say the owner is so busy getting the 10bbl system going that he isnt in the HBS portion of the shop and neither am I

My other shop is great no complaints.

Small business's are extemely tough and there usually is not much room for error if you dont have sizeable internet traffic, the real key is a connection with the customer as they are your meal ticket.

I have only been to 3 or 4 HBS but without exception all the proprietors have bent over backwards to help me to the point of offering wines or brews they had made from kits they sell. Not once have I had a neagative expirence. I make it a point to check out the HBS in places I travel to ie. Louisville, KY, outstanding HBS there, Columbus, GA, Jacksonville, FL.

Chimone said:

my LHBS is online. Not too bad, I usually get everything the next day. But my computer screen never talks down to me so I guess I can live with that. It does suck to need something and just not be able to get it until tomorrow though.

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What online retailer do you use? (If you can post it in the forums).

Thanks

I am on a first name basis with both of my lhbs. I go to buy and often stay to chat all the while respecting the other customers right for access to the salesperson. When they are free to talk, we chat. I do get great service from my lhbs and anything they don't carry I can order and have shipped to me via one of their orders, free of charge. A service I don't abuse, limited to what it is.

I work in a service trade and if I treated customers like that, well I guess I'd lose my job. Besides, life is too short to be cranky all the time. Could be he was having a bad day and although he shouldn't have showed that to you, you could have tried to brighten his day with a little humor. Sometimes that do work, even for a little while. This approach just might make you a friend in your lhbs.

Cheers

When first visited my shop the owner seem more interested in surfing the internet than providing sales attention. This happened to be the case on my 2nd visit as well. The owner also doesn't have alot of his stuff marked with prices so it forces you to ask. At a times he seems to get defense after he gives you the price, as if he has to justify the price.

On my third visit, he recognized me and seemed happy to break away from the computer to chit chat. Since then he's really talkative as if nobody has been there all week. I like that though.

He seems to have hang ups on his prices, hates to have people haggle over them. He said this on more than one occasion. He claims to loose a lot of business to the internet and I believe it too. I prefer going local over shopping the net. I hate to pay for shipping.

He claims its hard to stay open, and is barely making it. I hope that's not true. This place is the only one around w/o a several hour drive.

It's pretty bad when someone walks in the door, the first thought of the employee is "Fricking Customer".

When that attitude prevails, things head south pretty fast. If it was the owner, then he's in the wrong business. If it was an employee, then he needs an attitude adjustment or the boot.

Customer is King. It's good to see that most of the LHBS talked about here know how to appreciate folks who bring business their way.

I find my LHBS helpful and knowledgeable. They don't offer samples of beer but always encourage me to actually eat some of the grains I'm considering using and usually give me welcome input on any recipes I come up with. Their prices are actually pretty good on the ingredients though they've raised them a bit as of late. Prices on the equipment are another story but hey, my folks run a small local business so I'll bite the bullet and spend a bit more because I know how sh!tty it is to lose business to internet retailers and Walmart/HD type stores.

ryanme said:

I have three questions that I could use some answers to.

I was reading a thread on these forums about wheat beer not needing a secondary fermentation. is that true? If so is that for all grain only or does that go for extract brewing too?

Question 2 What is a good (hopefully simple) starter beer?

question 3 Do different beers have different ferment durations?

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1. I think I recall that thread and the logic there is that secondary fermentation and aging really help the clarity of the beer. Good presentation does matter and it is nice to not have a crapload of stuff in the bottom of your bottles when you go to pour a glass. Since wheat beer is naturally cloudy you could skip the secondary because you're not worried about clarity. The problem I see with this is that the best part about using a secondary is, in my mind at least, the aging of the beer. Contrary to the crap budweiser would have you believe, real beer actually tastes much much better after a couple weeks or even a month or three of aging. You don't want to let the beer sit for extended periods of time on the trub/yeast cake so aging really isn't possible without a secondary. So, you could do without a secondary quite easily regardless of style but it's one of those things that noticeably improves your beer.. plus it'll allow you to dry hop your beer. If you're just starting then do without but if you like the hobby then it should definitely be at the top of your upgrade list.

2. If you're brewing from extract then they're all pretty much the same. One thing I would caution you against are lagers - you'll need additional equipment (lager chest) and the yeast easily create buttery off flavors (diacetyl) that really stand out against the clean, dry flavor of a lager. You should make a beer that fits with the style you like. You can make a light tasting ale that is very similiar to lager if that's what you like... it's really up to you. Any off flavors will be better hidden by a darker, heavier tasting beer such as a stout but you'll quickly find that brewing is really really simple and fool proof especially if you're using extracts. Belgian wheat beers take a bit of know how since you'll probably be spicing them with coriander and orange peels and maybe even lemon or cumin - it's easy to overdo the spices. Likewise a Hefeweizen (very tasty) uses a special yeast strain to create those funky flavors and the yeast will very easily create overpowering banana, bubble gum, and/or clove flavors if you don't watch the fermentation temps closely (keep it cool).

3. They'll all ferment at pretty much the same rate. Lagers take substantially longer and involve addition steps that are, IMHO, not worth the extra labor for a product that I find to be no better than a good ale (personal opinion here). Darker beers and higher ABV batches benefit more from aging than do light beers. A good general rule is 1-2-3: 1 week in primary, 2 weeks in the secondary, and 3 weeks in the bottle. Of course you could just leave it in the primary for 2 weeks and then bottle and, if you keep the bottles warm, it could be lightly carbonated and drinkable in as little as a week (again, aging would really make it taste surpisingly better).

God Emporer BillyBrew said:

I think there are a few types of stores that are like that. Unfortunately, gun shops fall into that category also.....

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Or in my case, (one HBS in the state, but LOTS of gun shops), if the service sux, they won't be in business too long. Therefore, they're pretty helpful.

gruntingfrog said:

RYANME,

Where do you live? You'd be surprised, there may be someone here that lives near you that could recommend a home brew store.

I am a big fan of the local home brew store simply because my experience with HomeBrew Headquarters in Richardson, Texas has been so incredible. Every time I go in to get something they give me tips for how to use it, things to watch out for, etc. If I have a question they are quick to answer.

However, if you're not getting that sort of service then don't go to the LHBS.

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i will definatly second that, the store owner is the best at homebrew headquarters!!

I don't have a per se LHBS, however there is a liquor store in town that stocks the basic equipment and a few ingredients. They guys that work there are nice enough, but don't really seem like they are homebrewers. I bought a hydrometer there this week, but they didn't have a test jar for it and I wanted a vessel that wouldn't waste an overly large amount of brew. I think I recall the guy telling me I could order one online. I thought to myself, "Yeah, for $3.00 and pay that much in shipping to get it." Its nice to have a store like that around, so I can get something in a pinch, and that's why I try to keep buying stuff from them, but its not the best place ever for an LHBS. Fortunately, I did find that a rather large and tall rain gauge makes a good test jar at the hardware store.

Yeah, gun shops are definately that way. There are a couple of shops that I know of that have some know-it-alls in them.

BrewProject said:

i'm pretty new at this, but my LHBS guys seem to go out of their way to help.

They even gave me a business card and told me to call if i had any questions before, during or after the brew.

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Same thing here. When I bought the stuff to brew my first beer, the guy at the LHBS told me to call him if I had any questions and he'd be more than happy to help...kind of like beer tech support, only the people on the other end speak english as a first language.