Is a double stage batch sparge process better than a single stage batch sparge?

I am looking into moving to a larger sized cooler (70 qt instead of 40 qt) and in one the the amazon reviews a user mentiond that with this larger cooler he can do all of his batch sparging in a single step instead of breaking it into multiple steps, thus saving him time for the brewing process.

So other than being able to use less sparge water in a two step process, is a double stage batch sparge process better than a single stage batch sparge in removing sugar for the wort?

How about.... it depends. The only way to know if it will help you is to try it. It is a really easy test.

I personally haven't seen a benefit, but others have reported success.

It helped my efficiency about 5-7%, but it does take more time. Try it for yourself and see if it's worth it to you.

As posted above Braukaisers image shows a slight efficiency improvement with additional sparges:



However, a lot of people here, including some highly experience brewers like Denny Conn say it doesn't matter and to just do a single as it's more time saving. I double batch sparge because that's what I started with. Since getting my grain mill I get very consistent 81% efficiency and since double batch sparging doesn't take much more time I figure I'll stick with my process. It's up to you though. Though by no means scientific you can try a double batch sparge on a recipe and then next time you do it try a single and see the difference.


Rev.

My efficiency was lower when I did 10gallon batches versus 5 gallon and the only real difference in my process was the number of batch sparges. For a 5gallon I had to do 2 sparges because of the volume constraint with my cooler mash tun, whereas I could get the total sparge water in with the grains in my keggle mash tun. My last 10 gallon batch I wanted to check on it, so I split the sparge into 2 and my efficiency went up about 8 points. Nothing had changed (weight of grains, crush, volume of water, temperatures, etc) so 2 sparges it is for me from here on out.

2 batch sparges takes longer but is more efficient. You have to decide for yourself if the difference in grain is worth the time savings.

Homercidal said:

2 batch sparges takes longer but is more efficient. You have to decide for yourself if the difference in grain is worth the time savings.

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I've actually found it really doesn't take much more time, no more than 10 minutes for sure. I used to wait ten minutes after each sparge addition for things to settle before draining again but Yooper and a few other posters said that rest (to settle) time wasn't necessary so now I don't wait the 10 minutes, though I still give it a minute or two to rest from my stirring for the heck of it.


Rev.

Personally I didn't notice a change in efficiency when I switched to single.

Here's a good read about it:

http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Rev2010 said:

Rev.

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I don't get this. So the less grains you use the greater the efficiency is?

It seems that the graph is saying that with no grains you'll get 100% efficiency.

Enlight me, please!

sculpin said:

I don't get this. So the less grains you use the greater the efficiency is?

It seems that the graph is saying that with no grains you'll get 100% efficiency.

Enlight me, please!

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You only have a fixed amount of water for mashing and sparging, thus a fixed amount of water to rinse the sugar out of your grain. With a small amount of grain and thus very little sugar the wort is very dilute and almost all the sugar is rinsed from the grain. With a lot of grain, the wort is more concentrated and not all the sugar can be rinsed from the grain because the concentration of sugar in the wort absorbed in the grain cannot be less than the concentration of the free wort which is rinsing out the sugar. So with a concentrated wort you are leaving more sugar behind in the grain.

DeafSmith said:

You only have a fixed amount of water for mashing and sparging, thus a fixed amount of water to rinse the sugar out of your grain. With a small amount of grain and thus very little sugar the wort is very dilute and almost all the sugar is rinsed from the grain. With a lot of grain, the wort is more concentrated and not all the sugar can be rinsed from the grain because the concentration of sugar in the wort absorbed in the grain cannot be less than the concentration of the free wort which is rinsing out the sugar. So with a concentrated wort you are leaving more sugar behind in the grain.

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Thanks, what you're saying makes perfect sense, but why would you want to use a fixed amount of water with variable amounts of grains? Doesn't anyone want the maximum efficiency?

sculpin said:

Thanks, what you're saying makes perfect sense, but why would you want to use a fixed amount of water with variable amounts of grains? Doesn't anyone want the maximum efficiency?

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You use the amount of water needed to get your desired pre-boil volume for whatever your batch size is (and an allowance for grain absorption and dead space losses). You use less grain for weaker beers and more grain for stronger beers. You could use more water to get more efficiency, but then you would have way more than your desired pre-boil volume and would have to boil for much longer than the typical one hour in order to boil off enough water to get to your post-boil batch size.

Rinsing the grain more means more efficiency, but as the graph above indicates you get a diminishing return.

Since you're upgrading to nearly 2x the size of cooler, then get yourself a pitcher and a roll of foil and fly sparge. Just pour your vorlauf and then sparge water onto a piece of foil in your mash tun and keep the liquid 1-2 inches above the grain bed. It's really easy to do (been doing it myself for a year) and you just need to heat your sparge water to 180-190 deg to compensate for heat loss from pouring (just like you'd need for a manifold).

I find fly sparging to be a lot easier than doing double batch sparging. How long do most of you vorlauf? Vorlaufing 3 times and stirring 3 times is a lot more work than doing it one time and waiting a little bit for wort to drain.

Gameface said:

I find fly sparging to be a lot easier than doing double batch sparging. How long do most of you vorlauf? Vorlaufing 3 times and stirring 3 times is a lot more work than doing it one time and waiting a little bit for wort to drain.

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I vorlauf twice per sparge - two 16oz measuring cups worth. I double batch sparge, not triple, and it really is very easy and it doesn't take a lot of time at all. I used to wait 10 minutes after stirring for the grain to settle until I was told on here it's not necessary and they were right. So that shaved off a good 16-18 minutes of time sparging (I still give it a minute or two at most to settle).


Rev.

I use a 70 qt. Coleman Xtreme and utilize the single batch sparge method. With my system/methods, I typically hit about 90% efficiency, even with batches up to OG 1.090. That said, I must qualify that by saying that my system boils off about 2.25 qt. per hour and I routinely do 90 minute boils, therefore, I am collecting more pre-boil volume than most which could account for the additional extraction of sugars. Also, I dough in at 1:1 (liquor to grist ratio) at the calculated strike temp. (neglecting MLT T/M) and then add an appropriate volume of boiling water to achieve the desired mash temp. after the MLT absorbs some heat. This process typically gets me to a final liquor to grist ratio between 1.25:1 and 1.5:1.

Gameface said:

I find fly sparging to be a lot easier than doing double batch sparging. How long do most of you vorlauf? Vorlaufing 3 times and stirring 3 times is a lot more work than doing it one time and waiting a little bit for wort to drain.

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I go back and forth, sometimes fly sparging if I'm doing a ten gallon batch with my HERMS, and sometimes doing a single batch sparge. It just depends what I feel like doing, and how my brewday is going. I get only slightly higher efficiency (75% vs 72%) with the fly sparge.

I vorlauf about a quart or so, and it takes no time at all.

I drain the MLT, pump in the sparge water, stir like I mean it, vorlauf and drain wide open. It takes literally about 10 minutes total. No mash out, no second sparge, nothing. It's a great way to save over an hour vs fly sparging a 10 gallon batch.

Wow, I'm vorlaufing WAY more than you guys. I have 2 1L pitchers and I fill each one 6-7 times. I guess I'll back off on that a little, haha.

Gameface said:

Wow, I'm vorlaufing WAY more than you guys. I have 2 1L pitchers and I fill each one 6-7 times. I guess I'll back off on that a little, haha.

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You only need to do it until the wort runs clear, without grain and husks. My false bottom seems to do a great job at keeping the stuff in the MLT and not in the wort, but I don't think even in my old system I ever vorlaufed more than a couple of pitchers.

Yooper said:

You only need to do it until the wort runs clear, without grain and husks. My false bottom seems to do a great job at keeping the stuff in the MLT and not in the wort, but I don't think even in my old system I ever vorlaufed more than a couple of pitchers.

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I was kind of going at it with a "more is better" mentality. My current false bottom is working great and I'm not getting grain bits after just a few pitchers. The one before that was a different story. Basically never got it to completely stop letting grain bits through.

I'm gonna save myself some effort though and stop vorlaufing so dang much.

The only time I have seen a benefit is in sparging for very high gravity batches - 20+ lbs for 5 gallons. Outside of that I tend to mash thick and sparge heavy, single infusion and I get 75-80% every time.

I know this is an old post but when you guys are doing a double sparge what is your grain/water ratio for the mash?

I am doing a heavy beer (19.5lbs of grain) and I want to double sparge (never done it) to increase my efficiency.

A lot of the calculators have me at 10.5 gallons of water (90 min boil) putting 6.5 gallons (1.33 ratio grain/water) in the Mash that would only leaving me with 4 gallons to sparge, so if I do a double sparge that is only 2 gallons of water mixing into almost 20 pounds of grains is that right?

One last question, do you mix the grains up and then add the water to sparge or while you are doing it or does it not matter?

THANKS EVERYONE!

I have settled on doing two batch sparges so that I don't thin out my sparge process too much and have my gravity fall below below 1.010 where I might start to extract tannins in the sparge process. I usually add my batch sparge water, stir the mash and then let it sit for 10 min before draining.

Tony269 said:

I know this is an old post but when you guys are doing a double sparge what is your grain/water ratio for the mash?

I am doing a heavy beer (19.5lbs of grain) and I want to double sparge (never done it) to increase my efficiency.

A lot of the calculators have me at 10.5 gallons of water (90 min boil) putting 6.5 gallons (1.33 ratio grain/water) in the Mash that would only leaving me with 4 gallons to sparge, so if I do a double sparge that is only 2 gallons of water mixing into almost 20 pounds of grains is that right?

One last question, do you mix the grains up and then add the water to sparge or while you are doing it or does it not matter?

THANKS EVERYONE!

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I didn't do the math, but once you mash in and then drain your first runnings, you can measure what you get out and then your sparge water will be the difference between the desired boil volume and your first runnings.

I wouldn't even attempt to try to do two rounds of batch sparging in a 20 pound grain batch with 4 gallons of water! You won't even be able to stir that mess.

If two rounds of batch sparging increases your efficiency, then perhaps the technique looks looking at, as there is no reason for it. If you stir in your sparge water, and stir it like it owes you money, vorlauf and drain, your efficiency shouldn't be less than a traditional fly sparge.

Anyway, use all of the sparge water and do one round of batch sparging, so you can at least stir your grainbed properly and that will be better than two smaller portions.

It's possible in a very large grainbill for this to occur, but it would also mean decreased efficiency in a fly-sparged batch as well, due to the lowered amount of sparge water.

"..and stir it like it owes you money.."

Yooper, that is AWESOME, I was laughing as I read this, thank you so much for your advise, I will be sure to just do one and stir the crap out of it, hahaha.