came up WAY short on volume

i decided to do a "use up your leftover ingredients" beer today and was able to utilize my new dip tube in my HLT, allowing me to drain all but a few drops out of it. i thought i'd be able to dial in my total water amount from beersmith and use that to end up with 5 gal... i ended up with somewhere between 3-4 gallons of wort. no big deal, but i'm just looking for input on how much others start with when boiling a 5 gal batch. the OG was supposed to come in around 1.049, but ended up at 1.062, i could have added more water, but thought screw it, we'll just see how it turns out.

i know beersmith can't calculate for everyone based on equipment differences, but i started with 7.6 gallons in the HLT, as BS suggested. after mashing, i had about 6-6.5 gallons preboil. i just find it hard to believe i boiled off 2+ gallons. it was a very vigorous boil and stayed foamy most of the time, never really seemed to get a hot break, but i know i did.

i guess my question is, for those of you who do 5 gallon all-grain batches, what is your normal pre-boil volume? i know we will get a wide range of numbers here, but i'd just like to know what others are doing so I can get some ideas.

thanks.

android said:

i guess my question is, for those of you who do 5 gallon all-grain batches, what is your normal pre-boil volume? i know we will get a wide range of numbers here, but i'd just like to know what others are doing so I can get some ideas.

thanks.

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I usually shoot for 6.5 preboil and boil it down to ~5.5 into the primary to hopefully wind up with 5 gallons of finished product

I'm still working on this. I had been getting 4-4.5 gal so I tried to adjust and got 6+ (hefe with a starter... damn right I used a blowoff tube). If you had 6-6.5 gal preboil and you ended up with 4.5, then it looks like you boiled off a lot. How wide is your pot? Factors like the surface area and wind, etc, can affect boiloff rates.

I start with 7 gallons if I want to end up with 5 after a 60 minute boil. I use an outdoor propane burner/keggle setup.

Big10Seaner said:

I use an outdoor propane burner/keggle setup.

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me too... and i just got a new burner/regulator, so i have one for the HLT and one for the BK. the regulator is only 5 PSI, which i didn't know when ordering it. i figured since it is less than the 10 PSI one i normally use, i should rock it... well, lesson learned, the 5 PSI has NO problem getting my full boil going and i had a boilover, which may have contributed to my volume loss, but not that much. i'll definitely try around 7 gallons next time.

is there a way in beersmith to adjust your preboil volume without changing your target volume?

I had the same problem my first 2 batches. My problems were
1. Didn't expect the grains to soak up so much water (.2)
2. Didn't expect my boil off to be almost 25% (keggle and propane burner)

so i have to start with just over 7 gallons to get around 5 gallons into the primary

There are a couple variables I pay attention to. First, 60min boil or 90? I lose about 1.5 gallons per hour. Don't think of boiloff as a percentage. It's a fixed amount over time for your equipment.

Second, big hop bill or small? Leaf or pellet. If I'm brewing an IPA with all leaf, I add 1/2 gallon to the batch size.

Where it says "equipment" go to the right and click on details. You can check or uncheck whether to have the preboil volume calculated automatically (mine is unchecked). It tries to calculate your boil volume for you based on your equipment.

For an OG 1.049 beer, I'm typically around 6.5 gallons pre-boil volume for a 5 gallon batch, 60min boil.

Did you measure your pre-boil gravity?

I agree with everyone that says you should be around 1.5 gallons per hour for most types of homebrewing AG boiling setups. It's going to be different for everyone, but should be in the ballpark.

Another thought is that I usually start with more than 7.6gallons in the HLT for a batch this size. I'm usually at least 9 gallons. Since I've been making 5.5 gallons batches, I've been using nearly 10 gallons in the HLT. It sounds like you may not have used enought water.

If I had to guess - It sounds like your pre-boil gravity was too high, and you really had less than 6 gallons pre-boil. This would imply that you didn't sparge enough.

I'm no AG veteran, but I do have many batches under my belt and I'm a strong advocate of measuring my pre-boil gravity to know when I've got enought wort. I never miss OGs by more than a point because I know my boil-off rate and can calculate the pre-boil gravity needed. I sparge until I hit the pre-boil gravity of the wort in my kettle. Works every time.

If you want to do the calculation manually:

(Grav Units 1) x (Volume 1) = (Grav Units 2) x (Volume 2)

Using your situation finishing at 1.062 OG (grav unit 2) with only 4 gallons post boil (or Volume 2).
I'm also going to assume your pre-boil volume was 5.5 gallons instead of 6 like you stated.

(Grav Units 1) x (5.5 gallons) = (62) x (4 gallons)

That would yield a pre-boil gravity of 45 gravity units or 1.045. To hit OG 1.049 on a 5 gallon beer - you'd need 6.5 gallons at 1.038.

Pangea said:

Did you measure your pre-boil gravity? No, I will try this next batch.

Another thought is that I usually start with more than 7.6gallons in the HLT for a batch this size. I'm usually at least 9 gallons. Since I've been making 5.5 gallons batches, I've been using nearly 10 gallons in the HLT. It sounds like you may not have used enought water. Definitely a possibility, I need to mark my new sight gauge to see how much I'm using to sparge with.

If I had to guess - It sounds like your pre-boil gravity was too high, and you really had less than 6 gallons pre-boil. This would imply that you didn't sparge enough. I think you're right, I must have had less than 6 gal. Need a sight gauge on the keggle as well. I've got the coupling for it, just need a suitable piece of heat-resistant polycarb.

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smakudwn said:

so i have to start with just over 7 gallons to get around 5 gallons into the primary. I'll definitely shoot higher next time.

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Bobby_M said:

There are a couple variables I pay attention to. First, 60min boil or 90? I lose about 1.5 gallons per hour. Don't think of boiloff as a percentage. It's a fixed amount over time for your equipment.

Second, big hop bill or small? Leaf or pellet. If I'm brewing an IPA with all leaf, I add 1/2 gallon to the batch size. Really small hop bill; pellets. 1 oz.

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Big10Seaner said:

Where it says "equipment" go to the right and click on details. You can check or uncheck whether to have the preboil volume calculated automatically (mine is unchecked). It tries to calculate your boil volume for you based on your equipment. Thanks for the direction.

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Thanks for the replies.

As far as measuring volume in the kettle - its nice to know, but you dont need it to hit your gravities. I had a sight glass on my kettle and it got all fouled up and became a PITA so I took it off. I only used kettle volume to calculate boil-off rate initially and to calculate mash efficiency, which I dont care about anymore. Bottom line - I would recommend trying the sight glass, but dont rely on it because you may want to take it off in future. I haven't done this myself, but a better way may be to have an internal scale, like something marked on the inside wall or a stand alone stainless ruler or something like that to measure liquid level. My $0.02.

Pangea said:

I'm no AG veteran, but I do have many batches under my belt and I'm a strong advocate of measuring my pre-boil gravity to know when I've got enought wort. I never miss OGs by more than a point because I know my boil-off rate and can calculate the pre-boil gravity needed. I sparge until I hit the pre-boil gravity of the wort in my kettle. Works every time.

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When you say sparge until you hit the desired preboil gravity:

Am I on target thinking the gravity will be getting weaker as you go?
At what point (volume) do you start checking gravity?
How much do you sparge before you check again?
Do you take a sample and cool it down for each test, or do you just have a hydro floating in the kettle and adjust for temp?

I'm still nailing down my game plan for my next brew session, so thanks in advance!

carrotmalt said:

Do you take a sample and cool it down for each test, or do you just have a hydro floating in the kettle and adjust for temp?

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Ditto.


I would think that a cheap hydrometer calibrated at 68' F isn't going to be all that accurate at 160' F, even with the temp adjustments. How are you guys measuring?

carrotmalt said:

When you say sparge until you hit the desired preboil gravity:

Am I on target thinking the gravity will be getting weaker as you go? Yes. 100% correct. Your wort in the kettle is getting less dense.
At what point (volume) do you start checking gravity?
I start after the first runnings from the Mashtun, but that's really uneccessary since you know you need to sparge anyway. I would definitely check after 1st batch sparge to see how far you are from target.
How much do you sparge before you check again?
After I start getting close to the target gravity, I bring less over to the boil kettle before checking again. I'll bring over about a quart or two, gently stir the kettle and take a sample. If I'm still off, I'll bring another quart over, stir, and sample, and so on until I get the pre-boil gravity perfect. If I ran out of runnings from the mash tun, I'll do ANOTHER batch sparge. I just keep batch sparging until I have what I need in the kettle although I usually get the target pre-boil gravity in the kettle during runnings from my 3rd batch sparge.
Do you take a sample and cool it down for each test, or do you just have a hydro floating in the kettle and adjust for temp?
Hydro floating in the kettle is an excellent ideaI've never thought about that! I've always just taken a sample from the kettle drain, into the graduted cylinder, where I have both the thermometer and hydrometer. I measure temp, then remove thermometer and measure gravity. I go to ProMash and adjust gravity for temp and get my real gravity.

I'm still nailing down my game plan for my next brew session, so thanks in advance!

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Getting the pre-boil gravity perfect is probably the most involved part of my brewday. Once you've done it a couple of times it gets easier, when you get used to how your system is working and watering down the gravity.

A little tip - I made a chart at 125F and 130 for correcting several gravities. My wort in the kettle is always between 125 and 130 whenever I'm checking my pre-boil gravity, so its a quick reference as opposed to going to the computer to correct.

Good luck!

Synovia said:

Ditto.


I would think that a cheap hydrometer calibrated at 68' F isn't going to be all that accurate at 160' F, even with the temp adjustments. How are you guys measuring?

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I measure hot samples all the time and just correct for temperature. My gravities are as accurate as I need them. I never miss OG by more than 1 point either way, and that's only due to my boil-off rate changing from batch to batch (long story). My pre-boil gravities are pretty darn accurate and I dont let the sample cool down. I mark what it is - measure temp - then check what the real number would be at 60F by conversion. Like I said in previous post - I made a chart that is easier to use at typical temps rather that running inside to the PC to convert each time, although that does still work. Or I could just buy a laptop, but I digress.

I start (for extract) at 7.5 and after all said and done going into the bottling bucket, about 4.5 gallons (taking into account loss from the crap at the bottom of the boil kettle that I don't want in the ferm and the yeast/junk at the bottom of the carboy.

It sucks but I'm not sure what to do because with all grain this could be a problem when it comes to volumes.

Curious if I could add water during the boil? Add a little extra grain to the mash to adjust?