Whirlfloc trub blues

I'm on my fourth AG batch and the first two I did without whirlfloc or irish moss. They were cloudy and had some hop trub going into the fermenter so I used whirfloc on the next two batches.

The first batch I used whirfloc on I didn't whirlpool and ended up with a ton of whirfloc trub in the fermenter. So today's batch got whirfloc at 15min then I went through my flameout and cooling routine (IC from 212 to 78 in about 14min). I then took the kettle and whirlpooled with a spoon on the outer edge for about five minutes. I put the lid on and let it sit for 45min-1hr while I ate dinner, then came back and gravity fed it to my fermenter.

Unfortunately I had the same problem, once I got about 3.5g into the fermenter the dip tube suction started pulling the whirlfloc into the fermenter.

I've attached three pics showing the whirlfloc trub with 1.5 - 2gal remaining, then the hop trub in the center (leading me to think I whirlpooled ok) and lastly all the whirfloc trub in the fermenter

Did I not whirlpool long enough? Do I need to buy a hopblocker (I was hoping to save the $60 or whatever the blichmann ones are)? I hear great things about using irish moss or whirlfloc, does everyone just live with it in their fermenter?

I like to wash my yeast and I can't imagine doing so with all this whirlfloc bound up protein gunk.

Generally people don't wait long enough after whirlpooling before racking into the fermenter.

this is not really a problem at all. you can work at straining the trub but you will not be achieving anything in terms of beer in your glass. me and many other people dump everything in the fermentor and get clear, good tasting beer. the yeast love to feed on the trub/break material so in that regard it's good for your beer. some people insist that it affects the clarity and taste in which case i say go ahead and filter it out (if you can), either way is good.

phoenixs4r said:

Generally people don't wait long enough after whirlpooling before racking into the fermenter.

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I waited at least 45min after whirlpooling before racking. How long is long enough if that isn't it?

eastoak said:

this is not really a problem at all. you can work at straining the trub but you will not be achieving anything in terms of beer in your glass. me and many other people dump everything in the fermentor and get clear, good tasting beer. the yeast love to feed on the trub/break material so in that regard it's good for your beer. some people insist that it affects the clarity and taste in which case i say go ahead and filter it out (if you can), either way is good.

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The two beers I did without any fining agents ended up great, though a little cloudy. The last beer I did with whirlfloc ended up having so much whirlfloc trub that I didn't get a full 5gal into the keg.

Many people on HBT swear by whirlfloc, I'm just wondering how they deal with all the bring whirlfloc protein chunks.

if you would have dumped the whole kettle into the fermentor you would have had your full volume. the 6-8 inches of trub in the carboy packs down to an or two in the end anyway. even if you didn't use whirlfloc you should still have break material in the kettle after the boil so whirlfloc is not to blame. what i'm trying to get you to see is that there is not problem with trub in the fermentor.

I flameout, add hops and spices, whirlpool then go to the store for ice. I get back and set up my icebath and sanitize the pot. By then its pretty much settled. About 30-40 minutes total

just use a sanatized "ladies stocking" on the end of your tube, helps with aeration and fillter much of the trub

I never whirlpool, everything in my boil pot -hops and all- goes right in the fermenter, and my chiller is just a basic 25' copper coil from Midwest, so I don't do any really rapid chilling. I have used Whirlfloc, which works fine, but am currently using a Five Star product called Super Moss (it is the active ingredient in Irish Moss, something called carrageenan). I use a tiny bit (only 1/4 tsp. in a 5 gallon batch), and I get good results. Trub drops out well, and I get nice clear beer.

I used a hop bag for my last 2 brews, cut down on the trub dramatically, but I agree that my beers in which I poured ALL the trub into the fermenter came out clear as well.

I use to use super moss then stopped because of to much trub. Now I use no finning agents and rapidly cool my wort. I've had clear beer for the last 10 batches, lagers and ales.

Whirlfloc doesn't eliminate trub. Instead, it helps the proteins in suspension coagulate together, making them heavier and allowing them to settle into the trub. So if anything, you'd expect slightly more trub using Whirlfloc, but that makes it easier to leave it behind when you rack to your bottling bucket.

The pictures of your kettle look to me like you might be able to whirlpool a little harder. I picked up a paint stirring attachment for my drill from Home Depot for $4. I sanitize it and use the drill to get a nice vortex going. I have not noticed any hot side aeration from this process, and go about half speed on the drill. The edges of my pot are clean of hot break when I drain through my CFC. You might also see if you can adjust the angle of you dip tube to get it as close to the edge of the pot as possible. It might take some fancy piping, and probably will be more trouble than it's worth. In all honesty, the posters before me that mentioned waiting are right. Because I use a CFC, my cold break ends up in the fermenter. By the time I get ready to bottle, it's all compacted down to bottom inch of the carboy. Just out of curiosity, how long after racking to the primary was you carboy picture taken?

I'll go against the grain here and say I think eliminating as much break material from your fermentor as possible is beneficial to the beer in terms of flavor and appearance, especially for lighter lagers and ales. This has been my experience.

I up my volumes and grain bill a bit to end up with 6.5 gallons post-boil. I use whirlfloc and hop bags and/or a hop spider to eliminate hop gunk as a problem. When I've chilled to about 15* above my pitching temp, I will whirlpool and let it sit for 20min. I then drain the kettle, collecting the first 2qts of wort (which are still full of break material despite the whirlpool) in a pitcher and dump it. The last 6 gal get filtered through a nylon bag into a sanitized bucket, which filters out more cold break.

The bucket goes into my ferm chamber and I set it to chill down do pitching temps. This takes a few hours and helps settle out any remaining break material. I then carefully siphon 5.5gal of crystal clear wort into my fermentor, leaving the remaining break material behind with the last 0.5gal.

This has been working great. It is a bit more work and slightly more expensive per batch ($2-$3), but worth it to me. I'm not interested in saving a few bucks or having the quickest brew day, I want the best beer possible, and this gives me the best results. YMMV.

g-star said:

I'll go against the grain here and say I think eliminating as much break material from your fermentor as possible is beneficial to the beer in terms of flavor and appearance, especially for lighter lagers and ales. This has been my experience.

I up my volumes and grain bill a bit to end up with 6.5 gallons post-boil. I use whirlfloc and hop bags and/or a hop spider to eliminate hop gunk as a problem. When I've chilled to about 15* above my pitching temp, I will whirlpool and let it sit for 20min. I then drain the kettle, collecting the first 2qts of wort (which are still full of break material despite the whirlpool) in a pitcher and dump it. The last 6 gal get filtered through a nylon bag into a sanitized bucket, which filters out more cold break.

The bucket goes into my ferm chamber and I set it to chill down do pitching temps. This takes a few hours and helps settle out any remaining break material. I then carefully siphon 5.5gal of crystal clear wort into my fermentor, leaving the remaining break material behind with the last 0.5gal.

This has been working great. It is a bit more work and slightly more expensive per batch ($2-$3), but worth it to me. I'm not interested in saving a few bucks or having the quickest brew day, I want the best beer possible, and this gives me the best results. YMMV.

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you are not really going against the grain since either way works.

TopherM said:

Whirlfloc doesn't eliminate trub. Instead, it helps the proteins in suspension coagulate together, making them heavier and allowing them to settle into the trub. So if anything, you'd expect slightly more trub using Whirlfloc, but that makes it easier to leave it behind when you rack to your bottling bucket.

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+1

I agree with TopherM on this one. If your beer sits for a good 3 weeks or so in the fermentor, any "stuff" should fall to the bottom and compact enough to stay put when racking out of the fermentor. Any break material will be buried by all of the yeast sediment anyway so none of that should even be able to affect your beer taste or clarity!

Do we need to use IM, Whirlfloc, Super Moss, etc.. no we don't however, what if all that "stuff" did NOT come out of your beer and settle to the bottom?