late hopping my ipa.

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McMalty

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I'm drawing up a recipe for an ipa that uses almost exclusively late addition hops. what do u think I'd get better flavor from at 20 mins, 1 oz simcoe or 3 oz cascade? leaf hops. (there's gonna be other late additions, just trying to figure if it would be better to do the simcoe earlier or later). Thanks
 
Do you mean that you aren't going to add any/much early addition hops?

I'd suggest going and looking at about a dozen IPA recipes. I like IPAs and have done a few. I'm not picturing...
almost exclusively late addition hops
....working for my palate.

Willing to share your recipe, or is it top-secret?
 
I understand what you are trying to do. What hop you are going to use depends on the flavor you want to have in your beer. The Simcoe is going to have a pine flavor and the Cascade is going to be a citrus flavor.
 
Do you mean that you aren't going to add any/much early addition hops?

I'd suggest going and looking at about a dozen IPA recipes. I like IPAs and have done a few. I'm not picturing...
....working for my palate.

Willing to share your recipe, or is it top-secret?

Um, yeah... that doesn't sound good at all.

There's lots of beers that use either exclusively or almost exclusively late hops. Why do you say that doesn't sound good? The research (as well as personal (mine and others) experience) shows that all late hops (aka hop bursting) provides an incredibly smooth bitterness with tons of hop aroma and flavor. What's not to love about that? I myself have a few recipes either brewed or on deck within the next few weeks that have a small FWH addition but the bulk of the hops (90%+) are late hops.

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't even provide my opinion because I was too busy with my comments regarding narrow mindedness. I personally would go with the Cascade, but probably not 3 oz. Maybe 2 oz and then see where that leaves you. You might also consider first wort hopping where you aad some hops once you start collecting your runnings. If you're doing extract with grains then this can be approximated by adding the FWH addition upon removing your steeping grains and commencing the heat up to boil. FWH, based on studies and anecdotal experience, provides a smooth bitterness and unique aroma effect. Best of luck in your recipe development. Cheers! :mug:
 
There's lots of beers that use either exclusively or almost exclusively late hops.

I would re-word this statement as follows for better accuracy:

There are a couple of great craft breweries out there, like Maine Beer Co., that are adding a hefty amount of whirlpool hops to a few of their beers in order to gain amazing aroma and about 50% of their total IBU content.

Reason being, these breweries are generally not ignoring hop additions from 90-20 min. in favor of exclusively implementing 15-0 min additions.
 
I would re-word this statement as follows for better accuracy:

There are a couple of great craft breweries out there, like Maine Beer Co., that are adding a hefty amount of whirlpool hops to a few of their beers in order to gain amazing aroma and about 50% of their total IBU content.

Reason being, these breweries are generally not ignoring hop additions from 90-20 min. in favor of exclusively implementing 15-0 min additions.

Firestone Walker uses almost exclusively late hop additions in most of their beers, and every one I've had to date is awesome, including union jack ipa. So I'm pretty sure its more common than a lot of people think. I'm just trying to figure it out myself. I want to use cascade, centennial, a bit of simcoe and prob bitter with just 1 oz colombus. Any thoughts on a 5 gal all grain batch? How many oz do I need to add late?
 
Big fan of FWH and Late hop additions. I like my IPA's to very floral, love a huge aroma with a smooth (read: not harsh) bitterness. This can be achieved through the methods discussed above. I try to let do a FWH addition, and second small addition at 45 and then everything else at 15 and on. I generally have the bulk of my bitterness in the FWH charge with the addition at 45 to round out the bitterness, and then really bring it home with all the late hops.

I am planning a Fresh Brett IPA with FWH and then huge additions at the end.
 
What about something like this?

Recipe: Hopburst IPA
Brewer:
Asst Brewer:
Style: American IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.98 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.073 SG
Estimated Color: 4.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 67.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 86.3 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
13 lbs Premium 2 Row (Great Western) (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 91.2 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 7.0 %
4.0 oz Crystal 15, 2-Row, (Great Western) (15.0 Grain 3 1.8 %
0.50 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] - First Wo Hop 4 22.2 IBUs
2.00 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 5 20.9 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 9.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 14.9 IBUs
1.75 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Aroma Steep 10. Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.75 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Aroma Steep 10.0 min Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Day Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 11 0.0 IBUs


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 17.81 qt of water at 161.5 F 148.0 F 75 min
Mash Out Add 11.40 qt of water at 204.8 F 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 1.18 gal water at 168.0 F
 
Firestone Walker uses almost exclusively late hop additions in most of their beers, and every one I've had to date is awesome, including union jack ipa. So I'm pretty sure its more common than a lot of people think.

Not quite...

FYI, here is the exact hops by weight schedule:

FW Union Jack
6% early
19% middle
31% late
44% dryhop
 
I'm a huge fan of doing a small fwh and hop bursting. I have a smash ipa with .5oz simcoe fwh and 4.5oz simcoe in the last 15min, it's insanely delicious with incredible aroma. Don't let the haters talk you out of trying hop bursting!
 
I'm a huge fan of doing a small fwh and hop bursting. I have a smash ipa with .5oz simcoe fwh and 4.5oz simcoe in the last 15min, it's insanely delicious with incredible aroma. Don't let the haters talk you out of trying hop bursting!

so that's the entirety of your additions? .5 fwh and 4.5 at 15? that's the totality of it? nothing at flameout? not knocking it, just curious. How long does it take u to cool it?
 
so that's the entirety of your additions? .5 fwh and 4.5 at 15? that's the totality of it? nothing at flameout? not knocking it, just curious. How long does it take u to cool it?

I don't add it all at 15min. I add 4.5oz total at various times with less than 15min left in the boil. I can post the recipe tomorrow night if your interested.

I cool to about 150F and toss in the 0min addition for 20 min before cooling to pitching temps. From boiling to 65F takes me about 20min with an immersion chiller.
 
I just brewed up an APA with all of the additions after 30 minutes, with the volume of hops increasing later in the boil. This is the first time I am fully using mid/late additions, in my other hop bursted beers I still used a small 60 minute addition.
 
Thanks for the comments guys. I've ever heard of those beers named though. This really is something new to me.

I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for them.
 
Thanks for the comments guys. I've ever heard of those beers named though. This really is something new to me.

I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for them.

.........:confused:just a little curious......what r u talking about....? What beers? I started this thread......but ur comment seems like u started it, which is fine, don't mind your posts at all........just confused. Did I start this thread? :drunk:
 
.........:confused:just a little curious......what r u talking about....? What beers? I started this thread......but ur comment seems like u started it, which is fine, don't mind your posts at all........just confused. Did I start this thread? :drunk:

I was replying to this post.

Firestone Walker uses almost exclusively late hop additions in most of their beers, and every one I've had to date is awesome, including union jack ipa. So I'm pretty sure its more common than a lot of people think. I'm just trying to figure it out myself. I want to use cascade, centennial, a bit of simcoe and prob bitter with just 1 oz colombus. Any thoughts on a 5 gal all grain batch? How many oz do I need to add late?

Thanks for the enlightenment.
 
McMalty said:
oh, well, yes, FSW is pretty effing good, i would seek it out if i had to

I've tried so many variations of hop bursting and through all my attempts, nothing beats dry hopping. The flavor is in the aroma. FWH followed by a small dose of magnum at thirty. Half ounce of your favorite hops at 20-10-5-0 and 2oz in secondary for five days. Kegged an IPA loaded with Mosaic. Fantastic
 
I'm drawing up a recipe for an ipa that uses almost exclusively late addition hops. what do u think I'd get better flavor from at 20 mins, 1 oz simcoe or 3 oz cascade? leaf hops. (there's gonna be other late additions, just trying to figure if it would be better to do the simcoe earlier or later). Thanks

The answer to your original question is simple - BOTH

Late hopping is great. I've been doing the majority of my beers with only 30 minute or later additions, and I love it. There's something to be said for cost savings if you're only trying to add bitterness and not flavor/aroma, but for a few extra dollars, with the right hops, hop-bursting can produce a ridiculously good beer for many different styles (not just IPAs).

But seriously, back to your question. The real answer is of course complex. It all depends on what flavor and aroma you're trying to get out of that 20 minute addition. I assume you're saying 1 oz. of Simcoe vs. 3 oz of Cascade to provide similar IBU, but those additions will be quite different with respect to flavor, aroma, and the character of the bitterness. Simcoe is much more piney or 'dank' whereas Cascade is more citrus, so you're going to get a much different flavor/aroma.

With respect to the character of the bitterness, the cohumulone levels of the hops affect how aggressive or assertive the bitterness will be, so for a given IBU level, a hop with a higher cohumulone level, expressed as a percentage of alpha acids, will produce a more assertive bitterness that can be perceived as more harsh. That's why some of the new purposefully bred high-alpha aroma hops are also touted as superb all-purpose hops, b/c they have low cohumulone levels. Simcoe is ~15 - 20% and Cascade is ~33 - 40%, so a given IBU level attained through a single Cascade addition may be perceived as 'harsher' than the same IBU level attained through a single Simcoe addition.

20 minute additions are probably late enough that you won't get too harsh a character from the Cascade addition, but it is something to think about. I always try to keep my 'heavy' late additions to high-aroma, low cohumulone level hops to get tons of flavor and aroma and smooth bitterness.

Good luck.
 
And yes, if you really want to get the killer aroma, dry-hop. Preferably in the keg if you keg your beers.
 
The answer to your original question is simple - BOTH

Late hopping is great. I've been doing the majority of my beers with only 30 minute or later additions, and I love it. There's something to be said for cost savings if you're only trying to add bitterness and not flavor/aroma, but for a few extra dollars, with the right hops, hop-bursting can produce a ridiculously good beer for many different styles (not just IPAs).

But seriously, back to your question. The real answer is of course complex. It all depends on what flavor and aroma you're trying to get out of that 20 minute addition. I assume you're saying 1 oz. of Simcoe vs. 3 oz of Cascade to provide similar IBU, but those additions will be quite different with respect to flavor, aroma, and the character of the bitterness. Simcoe is much more piney or 'dank' whereas Cascade is more citrus, so you're going to get a much different flavor/aroma.

With respect to the character of the bitterness, the cohumulone levels of the hops affect how aggressive or assertive the bitterness will be, so for a given IBU level, a hop with a higher cohumulone level, expressed as a percentage of alpha acids, will produce a more assertive bitterness that can be perceived as more harsh. That's why some of the new purposefully bred high-alpha aroma hops are also touted as superb all-purpose hops, b/c they have low cohumulone levels. Simcoe is ~15 - 20% and Cascade is ~33 - 40%, so a given IBU level attained through a single Cascade addition may be perceived as 'harsher' than the same IBU level attained through a single Simcoe addition.

20 minute additions are probably late enough that you won't get too harsh a character from the Cascade addition, but it is something to think about. I always try to keep my 'heavy' late additions to high-aroma, low cohumulone level hops to get tons of flavor and aroma and smooth bitterness.

Good luck.

that's the best damn answer i've ever gotten. thank you. :mug:
 
I just brewed a beer, somewhere in between an APA and IPA, that the only hop addition was 4oz at flameout. It will get another 4oz dry hop. Pretty excited about this one.
 
I just brewed a beer, somewhere in between an APA and IPA, that the only hop addition was 4oz at flameout. It will get another 4oz dry hop. Pretty excited about this one.

You're not worried about there being very little bitterness in that beer? Unless beersmith is steering me wrong, you're only going to have about 6 IBUs.
 
You're not worried about there being very little bitterness in that beer? Unless beersmith is steering me wrong, you're only going to have about 6 IBUs.

...l tend to agree, there is very little bittering that I can perceive will be occurring. It'll probably have a good hoppiness to it, but it might be difficult to perceive it as an IPA...even an APA possibly. But hey, i've never tried that type of thing, so i could be completely off base.
 
It really depends on how long you whirlpool for. The wort doesn't have to be boiling to be hot enough to convert the alpha acids.

That is true, but for an IPA I would want to ensure at least a base level of bitterness. 4oz is certainly a lot of hops, but everything I've been able to find shows that you lose extraction efficiency pretty quickly as temp drops.

I love late hopping, but I'd also be worried about having an insufficiently bittered IPA.
 
You're not worried about there being very little bitterness in that beer? Unless beersmith is steering me wrong, you're only going to have about 6 IBUs.

I steep for around 30 minutes before I start running it through my counterflow chiller. By the time all of the wort is in the fermenter at least some of it has been exposed to the hops for more than 45 minutes. This is plenty of time to get some decent IBU's, way more than 6.

You can't really trust beersmith to properly calculate flameout IBU contributions.
 
I just tried, for the first time,20 minute and less for my hop additions. I did 10 oz total from 20 to 0 plus a 25 minute hop stand. I plan to add another 3-4 oz dry hop and I know I'll like it.
The question (for me anyway) is whether I'm going to get enough of what I want to make it worth the $$$ in hops.
I love hoppy beers and with FWH and some later additions, plus generous dry hopping, I can usually get what I want. But, I'm interested in how this one will turn out. Will be a few weeks before I know.
 
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