Candi Sugar????

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smmcdermott

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Fairly new to brewing and have not used this ever...

Is this used to make a higher gravity without adding taste? If not, what is it used for?

Thanks. :mug:
 
It depends on the color. The darker the color, the more "carmel" flavor generally. There are a few threads about making Candi Sugar too. HERE is one.
 
It contributes very little to the flavor unless using the darkest grade. Candi sugar is used primarily to raise the ABV of the beer without adding to the body of the beer. Sugar will dry the beer out, making it crisper.
 
Brew Like a Monk and other resources suggest that even the dark solid "candi" sugar does not add much caramel flavor. They suggest that caramel syrup or caramelized sugar syrup of some kind (easy to make yourself) add much more of the caramel flavor, if that's what you wish.
 
thank you guys. Any idea how much a pound of candi sugar would raise the ABV and when do you add it to the boil? Thanks.
 
My experience with homemade candi syrup is that it adds LOTS of flavor. It also seems to have the effect of smoothing out the mouthfeel and adding a bit of creaminess.
 
Hi McDermott - 1 lb of sugar is a lot for a five gallon batch. Beer recipes can be a little complicated -it's about balance, hitting the right targets for particular styles, etc. One of those variables is the ratio of fermentables in your wort, between base grains and adjuncts (sugar is an adjunct). Too much adjunct and your beer can become cidery, flavorless, or thin.

What recipe are you looking at doing?

When adding sugar to the boil, I do it at the end (final five minutes) to lessen the chance of carmelization or burning on the bottom of the boil pot.
 
Pappers - not looking to do it in any [particular recipe or anytime soon for that matter, just curious as to how to use it and the effects. Thanks for the response.
 
smmcdermott said:
Pappers - not looking to do it in any [particular recipe or anytime soon for that matter, just curious as to how to use it and the effects. Thanks for the response.
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For a low to medium gravity beer, I think 1lb of sugar will usually be too much. 1/2 lb would usually be better - to know for sure, plug the recipe into BeerSmith or other brewing software and see what percentage of fermentables the sugar is - I would keep it to 10% or less.

Personally, I wouldn't add sugar to boost the abv. If you need to up the abv, I'd look at the recipe and first see if I wanted to increase base malt. I add sugar when needing to make the beer drier, crisper, and/or lighter.

Hope this helps!
 
I got into brewing Belgian ales at one time and brewed a good bit of them.

I obtained most of my info from the "Belgian Ale - Classic Beer Style Series" book published in 92. It wasn't until the recipes hit an O.G. around 1.067 that candi sugar was called for, 1 pound in a five gallon batch. Logic given was it was "uneconomical and unnecessary" for an an all malt wort above 1.070.

If I remember the darker sugar was not for flavor but more so for color. When I made mine I just used cane sugar and brewer's caramel coloring.
 
Candy sugar is different than table sugar in a way that makes it easier for yeast to metabolize. This helps up the ABV in high gravity belgian beers without lending a cider or tart flavor.

For yeast to metabolize sucrose it first has to convert it into fructose and glucose causing the yeast some stress.

When you make candy sugar from table sugar you are converting sucrose into glucose and fructose. Candy sugar actually tastes sweeter than table sugar also.

I also have heard that the darkness of the candy sugar has more to do with color than flavor. But it must effect the flavor if enough it used.
 
No candi and table sugar are not exactly the same but candi starts from beet sugar, sucrose. When the sugar only makes up 10-15% of the fermentables, I'll stick to my disaccharide sucrose.
 
Beet and cane sugar is interchangeable. It is sucrose from either sugar beets or sugar canes. The purpose of candy sugar is to make a sweeter and clear candy. It also happens to be glucose and fructose instead of sucrose. This is why recipes call for it instead of table sugar. Candy sugar is also know as invert sugar, because it is well inverted.

Sucrose is made up of glucose and fructose bonded, when the sugar is inverted this bond is broken, so the yeast does not have to do this work.

In sucrose, the component sugars glucose and fructose are linked via an α (alpha) 1 on the glucose, to a β (beta) 2 on the fructose glycosidic linkage.[2]
Like other carbohydrates, sucrose has a hydrogen to oxygen ratio of 2:1. It consists of two monosaccharides, α-glucose and fructose, joined by a glycosidic bond between carbon atom 1 of the glucose unit and carbon atom 2 of the fructose unit. What is notable about sucrose is that unlike most disaccharides, the glycosidic bond is formed between the reducing ends of both glucose and fructose, and not between the reducing end of one and the nonreducing end of the other. This linkage inhibits further bonding to other saccharide units. Since it contains no anomeric hydroxyl groups, it is classified as a nonreducing sugar. Acidic hydrolysis can be used to convert sucrose into glucose and fructose. But hydrolysis is so slow that solutions of sucrose can sit for years with negligible change. If the enzyme sucrase is added, however, the reaction will proceed rapidly.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucrose

Invert Sugar is Table Sugar (Sucrose) that has been split into its components, Glucose and Fructose. With the use of Invert Sugar in wine and beermaking, the glucose is made immediately available for the yeast to use thus allowing the fermentation process to begin more quickly than if you use Table Sugar. With Table Sugar (Sucrose) the yeast will first have to split the Sucrose into Glucose and Fructose before it can use the Glucose in the fermentation process.
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http://www.barkingside.com/invertsugar.asp

Sugar is a class of edible crystalline substances, mainly sucrose, lactose, and fructose. Human taste buds interpret its flavor as sweet. Sugar as a basic food carbohydrate primarily comes from sugar cane and from sugar beet, but also appears in fruit, honey, sorghum, sugar maple (in maple syrup), and in many other sources. It forms the main ingredient in candy. Excessive consumption of sugar has been associated with increased incidences of type 2 diabetes, obesity and tooth decay.[1] Sugar consumption varies by country depending on the cultural traditions. Brazil has the highest per capita consumption and India has the highest per-country consumption.[2]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar

I would not buy candy sugar as it is expensive but it is very easy to make, and it seems to have made a positive impact on my brewing.
 
I find that the commonly available candi sugar (hard) doesnt do much other than change the color and ABV...just doesnt seem to lend much to the flavor party.

I have liked this product:
http://www.darkcandi.com/
Seems to lend more of a caramel hint to the end product.
 
You've stepped into one of the great debates about sugars without realizing it, McDermott. You'll see some people swear by using expensive Candi Sugar, others by saying straight Cane Sugar is just as good.

It's generally used in Belgian dubbel and trippel recipes (and a few others.) It is used to boost the alcohol content without adding extra body to the beer.

Basically "candi sugar" is an invert sugar, i.e. one that has been converted from sucrose to a mixture of fructose and glucose by heating with water and some acid, usually citric acid or tartaric acid.

The reason for it being called "candi sugar" is straightforward enough -- ever bit into a chocolate covered cherry, the kind that have that runny clear sugary stuff inside? That clear stuff is invert sugar, aka candi sugar.
 
mitch171 said:
Beet and cane sugar is interchangeable. It is sucrose from either sugar beets or sugar canes. The purpose of candy sugar is to make a sweeter and clear candy. It also happens to be glucose and fructose instead of sucrose. This is why recipes call for it instead of table sugar. Candy sugar is also know as invert sugar, because it is well inverted.

Sucrose is made up of glucose and fructose bonded, when the sugar is inverted this bond is broken, so the yeast does not have to do this work.
Click to expand...

Which goes back to what I said before about it all starting from sucrose.

If you feel that the additional process to invert the sugar has a positive impact in brewing, that's cool. I just side with the many that find it unnecessary.
 
I think paying for the pre made from Belgium sugar is a wast. But boil some sugar add some lime/lemon juice and take it to hard crack and let it cool overnight. That is easy doesn't cost anymore than the regular sugar and maybe takes 10 min of my life away. I am noticed less cider taste with doing this.

Now if you are doing a recipe with little sugar then I am less confident it would make any difference. In some Belgium's I brewed there was 1.5-2 lbs. of sugar and this was a significant percentage of the og., in cases like this I think it makes a huge difference.

So in light Belgium beers with high og. I would suggest inverting your sugar. In lower og. beers or dark beers it may not make much of a difference.
 
Here is a thread from 2005 trying to establish if candi is inverted or straight sucrose. CANDI

I honestly think the Belgians have to get a laugh over the debate we have in the States.
 
After reading the linked discussion:

I have never bought the store version of Belgium Candy so I do not know if it is just rock candy or invert or whatever. I do know one time I forgot to add the lemon juice and the results looked different. It was more grainy and not clear like when I invert it. When it is inverted it dries to a hard crack. It does not crystalize meaning if I put a rope in the solution I would just have a rope stuck in goop. If you did the same with sucrose, crystals will form along the rope. When I break up my hard sheet of invert sugar it then resembles what is found at the store. Not actually crystals but kinda looks like it.
 
Good timing--was just starting to source out candi sugar for a Samichlaus clone and will be making my own. Thanks, folks.
 

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