How are LME and DME different?

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Husher

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Messages
308
Reaction score
29
Location
Toronto
OK, I asked a similar question some time back and I just came up with the snappy comeback.

Basically I had noticed beers brewed with DME were really bitter when compared to LME.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/whys-dme-bitter-my-beer-341360/

Everyone in that thread suggested it was something other than the extract. So here's a question: If they're the same, why do some recipes call for a combination of LME and DME? If they're exactly the same, why not just reference one or the other in a recipe?

Oh, and I already know that one has water in it so there's some math to be done when trying to sub one for another. I accept that, but the TASTE is different. At least for the two batches I used DME for. They took much longer to age and were never very good. Bitter. One might assume different brands, but barley is barley right?
 
Why do some recipes call for a combination of LME and DME?

Because they are designed by companies who produce both products in bulk, and want to get rid of both equally. LME has a shorter shelf life so they can't afford for that product to linger. Thus when you buy kits, you get both versions of extracts... usually more of the LME.

Most kits (and their instructions) range from mediocre to horrible in my opinion. These companies want to rid their old (and possible stale) supply to the naive new brewer who doesn't know any better. It's just business. And Coopers is awful. If you want a good IPA recipe with extract, send me a private message.

LME and DME each have their advantages and disadvantages. But I still believe DME to be superior as a seasoned homebrewer. You will have to find that out for yourself. But it is definitely not the DME that is making your beers more bitter or worse. In closing, all extract is not created equal. Find a good maltster that does not load their extract with crystal, carapils, sugar, or other fillers.
 
I am less of a cynic than Bob :D, so I'll say "Why both in recipes?"

Well...........LME is cheaper so I like to use that. But it often comes in cans that are 3.3 pounds. So, if you need 4 pounds, you'll have to make up the difference with DME. Or, in some cases, LME comes in great varieties like Munich malt, rye extract, etc. So use that for the specialty grains, and then use DME for the rest.

But as far as "more bitter" beers? No, it's not the extract. Either it's your water, your imagination, or something else. Sugar for sugar, they are the same.
 
Fine fine fine. I'm still never buying DME again.

Of course that is your choice. I said something similar- that I'd never buy canned LME due to the poor quality (darkening of the wort, and the "canned" taste). But I still use DME on occasion, and wouldn't hesitate (and still use it for starters) and I've been making good beer for 15+ years. So I doubt DME is your issue.
 
Is it possible the LME I'm using has past it's prime? My Home Brew shop has what looks like a 25 gallon barrel, from which they'll fill whatever amount you want if you bring your own container. If they have bad turnover, is it possible that the stuff I buy is stale and less potent/bitter/whatever than the DME equivalent?

This is just gonna bug me until I figure it out. I don't think it's a contamination issue, and if it was it'd be pretty obvious by now given the stuff's been bottled for 9 months.

And I've compared the same brew kit with DME and LME, and obviously you know which one I prefer.
 
Personally I would use both LME and DME. The only real drawbacks of LME are it goes bad faster and is very difficult to measure and weigh out. DME costs about $3-5 more a batch with 5lb DME vs 6lb LME.(provided you are not buying bulk DME) Most recipes I make use 6lb LME as a base and DME to get to the desired gravity. I use DME for starters as well. I would use all LME for my recipes but like I sated it is not at all easy to measure out. Partial quantities of LME also do not store well.
 
Is it possible the LME I'm using has past it's prime? My Home Brew shop has what looks like a 25 gallon barrel, from which they'll fill whatever amount you want if you bring your own container. If they have bad turnover, is it possible that the stuff I buy is stale and less potent/bitter/whatever than the DME equivalent?

This is just gonna bug me until I figure it out. I don't think it's a contamination issue, and if it was it'd be pretty obvious by now given the stuff's been bottled for 9 months.

And I've compared the same brew kit with DME and LME, and obviously you know which one I prefer.

It's possible, but they use nitrogen (or is it argon?) to dispense so it helps keep it fresh so I wouldn't write off the LME necessarily.

Use the bulk of LME at flame out, and it won't darken.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "at flame out"? Is this something exclusive to propane cookers, or is there an equivalent to it for a stove?
 
Basically, you add the bulk of your malt and/or aroma hops at the end of the boil when you turn off your heat source. This will help to keep the LME from darkening as it already been "cooked" and will darken farther if boiled for a full 60 min.
 
DME is superior in every way to LME except for one thing -- variety. You can find more LME flavors than DME. But DME doesn't get crappy, doesn't mold, and keeps longer. It's cheaper if you buy it in bulk. I bought a 50 lb sack of it for about $2.25 a pound. It measures nicely, stores nicely, and is easy to work with.

LME seems to have its origin obscured by the retailer more too. There's so many private label or repacked LME types out there you never know if what you're getting is the same today as it was two months ago.

With DME you can usually find out who made it since there's not too many people making it. I'm partial to the Briess DME since it seems to ferment more fully than other types. With LME, just because the retailer slaps a label on it, who knows who really made it unless you buy a branded type like Muntons or Briess LME for instance.
 
Any way to tell that your LME is old (or, I guess, no longer fresh)? Got mine out of the large barrels that they use at my LHBS. I assume that refrigerating it will keep it fresh longer?
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean by "at flame out"? Is this something exclusive to propane cookers, or is there an equivalent to it for a stove?

When you turn off the heat = flame out.
 
DME is superior in every way to LME except for one thing -- variety. You can find more LME flavors than DME. But DME doesn't get crappy, doesn't mold, and keeps longer. It's cheaper if you buy it in bulk. I bought a 50 lb sack of it for about $2.25 a pound. It measures nicely, stores nicely, and is easy to work with.

I don't really agree with this. You're correct about DME being easier to work with if you buy it in bulk. I would imagine measuring and storing bulk LME would be a huge PITA.

But if you're working with fresh LME I think it produces better-tasting beer. But like many things it is a matter of preference.


LME seems to have its origin obscured by the retailer more too. There's so many private label or repacked LME types out there you never know if what you're getting is the same today as it was two months ago.

With DME you can usually find out who made it since there's not too many people making it. I'm partial to the Briess DME since it seems to ferment more fully than other types. With LME, just because the retailer slaps a label on it, who knows who really made it unless you buy a branded type like Muntons or Briess LME for instance.

Many of the online retailers sell repackaged Briess LME. Some advertise it as such (like Midwest), others don't (Northern Brewer). But one thing that you can be pretty confident about is the freshness of the extract that you buy from them. They sell a lot of extract, so you know the stuff you get from them hasn't been sitting on a shelf for months.
 
Any way to tell that your LME is old (or, I guess, no longer fresh)? Got mine out of the large barrels that they use at my LHBS. I assume that refrigerating it will keep it fresh longer?

If you have extra light extract that looks exceptionally dark, then it is probably old.
 
The main thing I look for in extract --that I can control with some background knowledge on the maltster-- is:

How close are the ppg/L ratings of this extract when compared to its 2-row or Pilsener malt equivalent?

Whether brewing a lager or an ale, I always want to be using something as close as possible to these base malts.

By knowing the ppg/L ratings of the extract, it helps me to ensure pureness of the product, that is to know (with a decent amount of certainty) that it isn't being stuffed with fillers, cara- malts, or added sugars.

This type of extract is always unhopped, Extra Light DME or Pilsener DME.
 
I like to use 1.5lb of plain DME in my partial boils. It doesn't darken like LME does. I do whatever hop schedule the recipe has,then add the other 1.5lb of DME & all LME at flame out. I get lighter colors & no twang.
I also think that DME gives some more complexity to an LME beer. Like using Munton's DME (English) with Cooper's cans. Australian beer is basically English in origin from colonial times. So I felt that the flavors of UK DME would compliment the Australian LME cans. Then whatever hops the style calls for. Many American beers use malts from other countries in there beers to get certain flavors. So I look at it from that perspective.:mug:
 
You know, it occurs to me that the DME needed a LOT of stiring and a bit of a boil to get dissolved. It really wasn't fun compared to LME, so I'm wondering if maybe the problem with bitterness was I burned some in the bottom of the pot when boiling. There was no indication of a burn (ie black stuff stuck to it). but it may be more likely that any other cause....That DME stuff stuck to everything....
 
That's the down side to DME,it's hydroscopic. Sucks moisture like a dry sponge. I use a plastic paddle & pour it slowly while stirring. Still have to dunk the open end of the bag a lil. Or like one guy said,pour it into a lil steel bowl & add it that way. Gotta dunk bowl.
And mine doesn't burn on the bottom either. It just clumps on top so I use the paddle to break it up while stiring. I try to pourit in slowly,which helps a little,but not much.
 
With DME, I removed from flame to stir it in. Helps a little bit.

I have vowed never to use liquid again after my last experience with it.
 
I have vowed never to use liquid again after my last experience with it.[/QUOTE]

What was your last experience? I'm had nothing but good results so far. Were you using canned stuff or no?
 
I have had a couple of them. Canned or from kits. The last one was the Rye Pale Ale kit from Northern Brewer. It just tasted old from the first pint. None of the beers I had ever made from DME tasted like that.


I just find you have so much more control of flavor profile using DME (I only use Extra Light) and build with specialty grains. It also stays fresher longer if stored properly.
 
Where I'm located LME is less than half price of the DME equivalent, so LME it is for me. I'm just using it now as a substitute for sugar in can kits, but hopefully in the spring I can try making an all malt brew with some specialty grains and add my own hops.
 
I've been really happy with a combination of LME and DME without having to put expenditure into hops (Brewferm Pre-hopped LME Kit plus Muntuns light DME and Muntuns wheat DME made me a phenomenal beer in 1 week - could drink it straight from the fermenters drum tap :p).

There has always been something odd about Coopers LME that i've used (the same oddness in a Dark Ale, Draught/Pale Ale, and Stout), with Sugar or Brew enhancer or DME the problem persisted.

As i said though, only DME and I'd have to spend more already and spend a minimum of £5 on hops, and there wouldn't be much variety. I find it difficult to store and the risk of losing a large batch puts me off using anything but the small bags, and there are so few varieties and only one brand to choose from at my LHBS.
LME and DME for me!
 
I've had more success with DME - I've noticed more problems with extract tang when using LME. I take it off the burner and whenever I add LME there seems to be some scorching. I'm sticking with DME for the most part, but to lower costs will use LME at end of boil.

Question: when I remove pot from boil to add LME (at 10 mins to end of boil) and am slowly stirring it in for 5 minutes, do I add 5 minutes to the boil time?
 
I quickly stir in all LME at flame out. No dark colors or twang that way. Even my partial mash used the mashed wort for hop additions,being 50% of the fermentables. It allowed me to add the LME at flame out & still get great beer.
 
I quickly stir in all LME at flame out. No dark colors or twang that way. Even my partial mash used the mashed wort for hop additions,being 50% of the fermentables. It allowed me to add the LME at flame out & still get great beer.

That's exactly how I am doing it these days. I used to add the remaining extract with 10-15 minutes left in the boil. Now I don't even bother. I add it at flamemout and let it sit for a few minutes to pasteurize before cooling.
 
Back
Top