kaboom133
Well-Known Member
*shakes head* 57 pages of bottle-conditioned-beer discussion when we all know....
We should just keg
We should just keg
Bottling Tips for the Homebrewer
- Thread starter Revvy
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rico567
Well-Known Member
In my previous post, by "until something better comes along" I did NOT mean kegging. I don't regard kegging as better or superior in any way. But thank you for bumping the thread.
Nightstalker
Well-Known Member
Agreed ... I have a love/hate thing with bottling. I LOVE the fact that you do not have to worry about the beer going flat after half of it is gone. Not only that but as stated you can much more easily take bottled beer places you want versus a keg. But I HATE the bottling process compared to kegging. For those of us that have a keg but do not have all the extras like the 10lb+ bottle bottling is the way to go.
rico567
Well-Known Member
It's all relative. I had a kegerator back in the day, many years before I started homebrewing, and I don't miss it.. I don't mind bottling (particularly after reading this thread and putting some of the tips into action), and want nothing to do with all the compressed gas, hoses, taps, cleaning, and refrigeration equipment associated with kegging. Different strokes, I suppose.
hartzie72
Member
I an getting less carbonation is my 16 oz bottles than my 12's. Am I filling them too full or what?
rico567
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily- the pints will take a bit longer to carbonate than the 12 oz. bottles, for one thing.
*shakes head* 57 pages of bottle-conditioned-beer discussion when we all know....
We should just keg
I got 57 problems but the keg ain't one.
OP
OP
*shakes head* 57 pages of bottle-conditioned-beer discussion when we all know....
We should just keg
Wow, way to make street kred on here, pissing in my thread....
grimzella
Well-Known Member
*shakes head* 57 pages of bottle-conditioned-beer discussion when we all know....
We should just keg
keg=lazy
we all know thats why u keg lol. see how easy that was. anyways, that horse has been dead beat by now. just read.
LMAO!!!
For what it's worth, I'm going to go to Home Depot and pick up a 90* elbow for my bottling bucket. I did the "Revvy bottling wand mod" by cutting a very short section of tubing from my wort chiller's out feed hose (same diameter as the hose on the siphoning tube). It fits like a glove on the spigot, but the wand feels just a bit lose, but not so lose it will slide off. I ran a few tests with water with no problems, but will probably pick up a hose clamp anyways when I get the elbow for piece of mind.
Thanks Revvy!
zeg
Well-Known Member
Sorry if this has been covered somewhere in the 58 pages of comments in the thread, if so please someone just tell me so and I'll happily wade through to find it...
But I attempted a dip tube like this, using a screw-on elbow threaded onto the inside of my spigot and it worked, but had a serious problem so I've abandoned it and gone to tipping the bucket when I near the end of the batch. The problem is that there is a little pocket/cavity inside the body of the spigot, between the intake part that goes into the bottling bucket and the actual spigot output. This cavity is a bit taller than the intake opening and it seems that it doesn't fill entirely to the top, probably because a little air gets trapped.
When I begin drawing beer into a bottle, I can see the level of beer in this cavity dip for a moment, then rise back up as flow starts from the bucket. This isn't a problem initially, but as the bucket empties, the flow is a bit slower and the dip is more pronounced. Eventually, the dip falls below the hole into the spigot output and bubbles enter the stream down the bottling tube. For a while, if I very slowly begin the flow into the bottle, I can avoid this problem, but eventually I can't even fill the bottle without continuous burping.
I'm not 100% certain that this is a problem, because it *could* be that the cavity is mostly filled with CO2 produced from the priming sugar, but I'm worried that it's air and I'm aerating the heck out of the beer as I bottle it. I did have one batch of beer that went bad a couple months after bottling, and it just occurred to me that I probably bottled it this way, so it could well have been oxidized.
Anyone had this problem? My spigot assembly looks like the same one as in the photos in the OP. It'd be nice not to have to do the tipping game, but for now that seems to be the only way I can avoid the fizzies in the bottling tube.
OP
OP
It's co2. We all get a little bubble action from time to time. But it ALL THE YEARS of using this I've NOT had any liquid cardboard beers.
A lot of people get overly worked up about seeing bubbles. But noone ever thinks those bubbles could just be co2. Especially after you've run a little beer out of the setup.
A lot of people get overly worked up about seeing bubbles. But noone ever thinks those bubbles could just be co2. Especially after you've run a little beer out of the setup.
zeg
Well-Known Member
Well, some of us think it could be CO2, but it's difficult to be certain.
Do you experience the level drooping in the spigot cavity with your dip tube? It is a fairly major effect, so I was surprised not to see it mentioned, even if just to reassure noobs that it's ok.
zeg, What kind of problem did you have with the elbow.
Mine was a little too deep and hit the bottom of the bucket so I had to saw a little of the "down" end. Then I put the rubber washer on the outside of the bucket and screw the spigot into the elbow until the washer starts to distort. it works very well and leave only about 1/8 inch in the bottom of the bucket.
If you are getting a bubble in the assembly and it is still there at the end of the session you are not aerating the beer. It is obviously not getting into the beer.
It may be co2 but even if it was air, IMO it is not enough to be a concern.
Mine was a little too deep and hit the bottom of the bucket so I had to saw a little of the "down" end. Then I put the rubber washer on the outside of the bucket and screw the spigot into the elbow until the washer starts to distort. it works very well and leave only about 1/8 inch in the bottom of the bucket.
If you are getting a bubble in the assembly and it is still there at the end of the session you are not aerating the beer. It is obviously not getting into the beer.
It may be co2 but even if it was air, IMO it is not enough to be a concern.
zeg
Well-Known Member
The elbow fit pretty well, if anything it was a bit too short in my case, rather than too long. That's another reason I've backed off on using it, since it wasn't achieving the goal of reducing the unbottled volume.
I haven't attached it in a while, but I believe the configuration was the spigot body with a rubber washer on the outside of the bucket, then the bucket wall, another rubber washer, then the nut that came with the spigot. Enough thread remained to attach a threaded to press-fit adapter, with a press-fit elbow on this.
Thanks to you (+ Revvy) for the replies. I think you're right that it's probably not something worrisome, though I don't like the aesthetics of the bubbling and sloshing while I'm trying my hardest to pour quietly. I may toy with trying to get a better-fitting dip tube to reduce the leftover.
Here's what mine looks like.
And the elbow on my spigot.
The elbow seemed a little big and I had to tighten it by holding the elbow and turning the spigot. On another note, does it matter what type of elbow? Does it have to be food grade or anything like that? I just got a simple PVC elbow that screwed on thinking it will do the job.
I'll probably look to bottle tomorrow night.
And the elbow on my spigot.
The elbow seemed a little big and I had to tighten it by holding the elbow and turning the spigot. On another note, does it matter what type of elbow? Does it have to be food grade or anything like that? I just got a simple PVC elbow that screwed on thinking it will do the job.
I'll probably look to bottle tomorrow night.
Just to update on my earlier posts & questions.
1. After fermentation at 10 - 15degC using lager yeast, I store my bottles at the same temps. It works. But only for lager yeasts I suspect.
2. I now rack to secondary - two weeks in primary and one week in secondary. Looking to extend time in secondary. So far, so good.
3. I use a pump bottle for priming my bottles. Dissolve 300 grams of dextrose in 500ml of water. Fill each 500ml swingtop with wand, then pump two squirts, about 7ml of priming solution, then close swingtop.
Cheers
PC
1. After fermentation at 10 - 15degC using lager yeast, I store my bottles at the same temps. It works. But only for lager yeasts I suspect.
2. I now rack to secondary - two weeks in primary and one week in secondary. Looking to extend time in secondary. So far, so good.
3. I use a pump bottle for priming my bottles. Dissolve 300 grams of dextrose in 500ml of water. Fill each 500ml swingtop with wand, then pump two squirts, about 7ml of priming solution, then close swingtop.
Cheers
PC
lgilmore
Well-Known Member
yesfan,
Idealy you want that end of the elbow facing down with very little clearance between it and the bottom of the bucket. Maybe it's the photo, but it looks like your elbow is a tad too big so you will still have to tip at a certain point and it won't stop the dregs from coming in. Hope this pic shows up... Note: mine uses two connection pieces to make the elbow, as the elbow can sivel. Cost about $1.50 at Home Depot.
Idealy you want that end of the elbow facing down with very little clearance between it and the bottom of the bucket. Maybe it's the photo, but it looks like your elbow is a tad too big so you will still have to tip at a certain point and it won't stop the dregs from coming in. Hope this pic shows up... Note: mine uses two connection pieces to make the elbow, as the elbow can sivel. Cost about $1.50 at Home Depot.
I decided to not use the elbow I bought and judging from lgilmore's reply, I'm glad I did. Mine was too big and hit the bottom of the bucket.
I got about 51 bottles out of my batch. I have very little beer in the primary and the bottling bucket after siphoning & bottling. I just used a scrap 2x4 under the bucket when tipping.
I may cut my elbow down to size and try again on the next batch. Siphoning and bottling went much better than expected, so I'm not going to worry if I can't make the elbow work.
I got about 51 bottles out of my batch. I have very little beer in the primary and the bottling bucket after siphoning & bottling. I just used a scrap 2x4 under the bucket when tipping.
I may cut my elbow down to size and try again on the next batch. Siphoning and bottling went much better than expected, so I'm not going to worry if I can't make the elbow work.
This was addressed earlier in this very same thread.
If you use a bottling wand, adjust the wand so its pointing up.
Siphon the beer to the bucket, and press the bottling wand sprint tip occasionally. When the liquid starts rising in the bottling wand you can rotate it so its pointing down.
I use a 75 cent PVC elbow from Home depot. I hack sawed off around 1/4 an inch and sanded a bit more.
I get all but 2 or 3 Ounces, in the bottles.
That's right, 2 or 3 ounces of wasted beer, with no tipping.
Its not wasted either as I get to taste it before it carbs.
Easiest DIY beer project there is.
If you use a bottling wand, adjust the wand so its pointing up.
Siphon the beer to the bucket, and press the bottling wand sprint tip occasionally. When the liquid starts rising in the bottling wand you can rotate it so its pointing down.
I use a 75 cent PVC elbow from Home depot. I hack sawed off around 1/4 an inch and sanded a bit more.
I get all but 2 or 3 Ounces, in the bottles.
That's right, 2 or 3 ounces of wasted beer, with no tipping.
Its not wasted either as I get to taste it before it carbs.
Easiest DIY beer project there is.
Some notes and questions from my first bottling day yesterday. Overall, it was very successful. I bottled over my open dishwasher door; very helpful for catching spills and arranging the bottles.
One of the issues I encountered was with my capper. I have the standard two-handle style that comes with most starter kits. About one out of every five or so beers the capper would shift to one side while trying to cap a bottle. I would have to disengage, rotate the bottle, and try again. Sometimes I would rotate multiple times. Is this normal?
Also, while I was capping one beer, the capper crunched right through the neck of the bottle sending glass everywhere and into the bottle. Had to sacrifice one beer. Has this happened to anyone else? It really made me think twice with each bottle after that; I was afraid they'd all break. I sanitized the bottles in a star-san solution in the sink with hot water, so didn't bake in the oven or anything that might weaken or stress the glass.
My batch ended up making about 44 or 45 beers, so I had several extra caps. However, I dumped all my caps into a star-san solution earlier. Is it okay to use these caps next time? I dried them all off.
Also, my kit came with a bottling bucket but only one lid (for the primary fermenter). I didn't even realize this until I racked to the bottling bucket and didn't have anything to cover it. Didn't want to use the lid from the fermenter either, so I just left it open and bottled quickly. Is it recommended to cover the bottling bucket? I guess I could have grabbed a large pot lid and spritzed with some sanitizer.
One of the issues I encountered was with my capper. I have the standard two-handle style that comes with most starter kits. About one out of every five or so beers the capper would shift to one side while trying to cap a bottle. I would have to disengage, rotate the bottle, and try again. Sometimes I would rotate multiple times. Is this normal?
Also, while I was capping one beer, the capper crunched right through the neck of the bottle sending glass everywhere and into the bottle. Had to sacrifice one beer.
Has this happened to anyone else? It really made me think twice with each bottle after that; I was afraid they'd all break. I sanitized the bottles in a star-san solution in the sink with hot water, so didn't bake in the oven or anything that might weaken or stress the glass. My batch ended up making about 44 or 45 beers, so I had several extra caps. However, I dumped all my caps into a star-san solution earlier. Is it okay to use these caps next time? I dried them all off.
Also, my kit came with a bottling bucket but only one lid (for the primary fermenter). I didn't even realize this until I racked to the bottling bucket and didn't have anything to cover it. Didn't want to use the lid from the fermenter either, so I just left it open and bottled quickly. Is it recommended to cover the bottling bucket? I guess I could have grabbed a large pot lid and spritzed with some sanitizer.
My first batch made about 48, so I had extra caps too. Just dump those extra in some sanitizer for the next batch you bottle. That's what I plan on doing. I think they will be ok.
I didn't cover my bottling bucket and my first batch came out alright, so no worries on the lid either.
Also, while I was capping one beer, the capper crunched right through the neck of the bottle sending glass everywhere and into the bottle. Had to sacrifice one beer.
Absolutely! But after bottling several batches, you learn how hard to push the handles down! I sacrificed several bottles the first time I used my Red Baron! I didn't know I had so many muscles!!!
glenn514
ncbrewer
Well-Known Member
I had the same problem and tried putting applying less force on the levers, but then it didn't always produce a good seal - had some flat bottles in each batch. I finally got a bench capper. I think my capper was just out of alignment, and the metal grabbers/holders would always be a problem.
As far as covering the bottling bucket, I use a dish towel soaked in Star San.
Dude, so much info in this thread, I love it. Thanks Revvy, I gotta say ive learned and least three times as much about home brewing from your posts here then anywhere else.
I have constant trouble with carbonation. I am with my 5th bottled 5gallon batch and I decided to increase the amount of sugar. Not sure that it is a good idea, but I cannot think of anything else. With my last 2 batches I went with 200 g (7oz) of sugar and after full 2 weeks at 19c (66 F) and 2 days in the fridge no carbonation, zilch. Though the flat beer taste very good, it is ale with OG of 1042 and FG 1012.
I understand perfectly well Revvys point As I've said repeatedly the 3 weeks at 70 is just a minimum....and a rule of thumb anyway
But after 15 days there should be something?
On the picture two different beers from two different batches with the same time in the bottles (1 L bottles)
I understand perfectly well Revvys point As I've said repeatedly the 3 weeks at 70 is just a minimum....and a rule of thumb anyway
But after 15 days there should be something?
On the picture two different beers from two different batches with the same time in the bottles (1 L bottles)
OP
OP
No....If there were something at 15 days, people wouldn't be complaining about beers not being carbed. You usually DON'T see anything until the beer is carbed, no matter what you may "expect."
This is not rocket science. It's simple. You put the CORRECT amount of sugar in the beer (you don't need to add more,) you leave in a WARM place, and you Walk away for at least 21 days. And then you come back and check on it. And if it's not carbed, you check in another week, or more.
The only reason a beer doesn't carb is if you've exhausted your yeast in a HUGE beer, and even then, there's still usually enough viable cells in suspension to carb the beer, it just takes longer.
The only carbonation problems there are, usually, are patience ones.
You add sugar, your beer will carb, in as much time as it takes to. It's a nearly foolproof process. But it takes time.
There's a great discussion going on about why it takes so long, HERE.
jeffjjpkiser1
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. If you're using the 3/4 cup of corn sugar for carbonation, your beer will carbonate. (And no you dont need 3 weeks). At most two weeks but typically 10 days is sufficient. The two questions I have are, how many days do you give yourself between when your initial fermentation is finished (over 2:30-3 minutes per bubble from your airlock) and when you bottle? Do you move to a secondary and how long is it there?
Based on your explanation and FG's, it sounds like perhaps your yeast is pooping out even before it can start carbonating your bottles.
This happens when your beer sits too long in primary or secondary.
It could also be your capping system. Do you get a firm seal once they're clamped down? I use the oxygen green caps which work well.
If for some reason it is the yeast. Do the following;
Get some dry Nottingham, rehydrate it, use a plastic syringe, open all your bottle, and hit them all with a little bit if yeast. Nottingham will not give you any off flavors and the priming sugar should still be there if nothing carbonated. I recently did this with a Oktoberfest beer were the yeast pooped out but it's normal for lagers so it was part of the process and it worked beautifully.
Good luck
La Fronde
Based on your explanation and FG's, it sounds like perhaps your yeast is pooping out even before it can start carbonating your bottles.
This happens when your beer sits too long in primary or secondary.
It could also be your capping system. Do you get a firm seal once they're clamped down? I use the oxygen green caps which work well.
If for some reason it is the yeast. Do the following;
Get some dry Nottingham, rehydrate it, use a plastic syringe, open all your bottle, and hit them all with a little bit if yeast. Nottingham will not give you any off flavors and the priming sugar should still be there if nothing carbonated. I recently did this with a Oktoberfest beer were the yeast pooped out but it's normal for lagers so it was part of the process and it worked beautifully.
Good luck
La Fronde
Thank you for reply. With this one, as usual: 1 week in primary, 1.5 weeks in carboy. With my other batches I did this: opened every bottle and added one full Tbs of corn sugr per bottle. After a couple of weeks it did carbonate, but it was a very little of carbonation and it really is a treaty experience; after you shoot the sugar in ,you have , like less then a second to cup it up, or you will have an eruption of sticky beer. So this time I just decided to bulk prime with 200 g per 5 gal. And let it be for 3 weeks (no matter how much I want to drink it) Bottles all different and cups are really tight.
zeg
Well-Known Member
I don't buy much of this at all. You are correct, based on my own and that of the senior guys around here, that in almost all cases the beer will carbonate. However, I have personally experienced moderate gravity beers taking 3 weeks or more to fully carbonate. They're "carbonated" sooner than this, but they become better and more consistently (bottle-to-bottle) carbonated after a longer period.
Air lock bubbling is not useful for judging completion of fermentation. Maybe for getting past the major active fermentation, but it's not going to tell you whether you're completely fermented or not.
As for the yeast pooping out, "too long in primary or secondary" would generally mean a very, very long time. Months and months.
jeffjjpkiser1
Well-Known Member
I would say bottle do mature over time for certain types if beers (stouts, barley wines, manic if course) come to mind.
Yes, you have to be quick with recapping after re-priming. The same is true with injecting them with new hydrated yeast.
Sorry but I disagree with your airlock comment. I have found that yeast that is still fermenting and kicking up a bubble every 2:30-3:00 minutes in primary is perfect for moving to secondary. That can last from a few days to weeks if anything else is being steeped in it (chips, etc). I do agree that yeast can go on for a long time but it can also poop out if the initial fermentation was very heavy and worked hard.
Have fun brewing!!
Yes, you have to be quick with recapping after re-priming. The same is true with injecting them with new hydrated yeast.
Sorry but I disagree with your airlock comment. I have found that yeast that is still fermenting and kicking up a bubble every 2:30-3:00 minutes in primary is perfect for moving to secondary. That can last from a few days to weeks if anything else is being steeped in it (chips, etc). I do agree that yeast can go on for a long time but it can also poop out if the initial fermentation was very heavy and worked hard.
Have fun brewing!!
OP
OP
Your answers about just about everything are outdated and just plain contrary to about every good brewing practice there is. Maybe you need to actually read some of the information on here, or listen to some current podcasts to learn the latest information...about things like how airlock bubbling is a crappy way of determining rates of fermentation, because anything including the vacuum cleaner running ca affect airlock bubbling. Or how moving to secondary is rarely done these days for normal beers....How carbonation and bottle conditioning works...how you rarely if ever need to re-prime...all you need is patience. How beers can indeed take weeks if not months to carb....
.........................
jeffjjpkiser1
Well-Known Member
So you know what a carboy airlock is right? You know that bubbles come up right? When fermentation slows down the bubbles slow down right? Do I have you at this point? The slow down tends to line up perfectly with the typical fermentation slow down or typical primary fermentation for particular styles. If you hit a certain gravity and you're tracking the temperature daily, and you know the typical attenuation for that beer/yeast strain then you can determine when the primary will finish. Based on this and the yeast still being active then your carbonation should not take that long. The 3-4 weeks would only apply to certain styles such as the ones that I mention. A recent "Brew" magazine article essentially said you only need at most 10-14 days for carbonation. Yes, you can mature them longer but will not change the carbonation.
jeffjjpkiser1
Well-Known Member
And the "I disagree on most of what you shared above. " yeah, that seems to be your trend without providing any valuable experience
"c'mon man!"
Actually, about 2/3s of my posts are straight out of my arse....
