Belgian IPA - critique/advice needed

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krugulitis

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Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
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Location
San Diego, CA
malt and fermentables
% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable
52% 6 0 Light Dry Malt Extract
35% 4 0 Pilsner (2 Row) Bel
9% 1 0 Belgian Candy Sugar Light
2% 0 4 Belgian Biscuit Malt
2% 0 4 Aromatic Malt

Batch size: 5.0 gallons
Boil: 3.0 gallons for 60 minutes
Original Gravity
1.086
(1.077 to 1.089)
Final Gravity
1.019
(1.016 to 1.020)
Color
8° SRM
(Gold to Copper)
Mash Efficiency
75%
Alcohol
8.9% A.B.V.
6.9% A.B.W.
Calories
282 per 12 oz.

hops
use time oz variety
Boil 60 mins 1.5 Warrior
Boil 10 mins 2.0 Styrian Goldings
Boil 1 min 1.0 Ahtanum
Boil 1 min 1.0 Saaz
Dry hop 14 days 1.0 Saaz
Dry hop 14 days 1.0 Ahtanum

Bitterness
32.6 HBU
63.8 IBU

White Labs Trappist Ale (WLP500)

Never brewed this style of beer before, so I have a few questions:
1) I was trying to get as close as possible to a belgian trippel with my grain bill - have I achieved this? Also, I have seen many recipes with no specialty grains, and a few with. I would think aromatic and biscuit would work well, does anyone think differently, or that I should be using a different specialty malt or a different amount?
2) Are my hop choices appropriate? I was trying to get something that would combine a citurs/floral with a more spicy/earthy flavor and aroma. Will this overwhelm the yeast character? Also, should I have shot for a higher, or lower IBU? Would you have used different hops?

Thanks for the help!
 
I really like the dry finish of Belgian Tripels & Golden Strongs, and the way to get high Apparent Attenuation is by mashing low and using more sugar than you'd think. Looks like you're doing a partial mash, so aim for the low range 147-149F. I've read about folks adding the DME/LME to the mash to make it more attenuable as well. Might be worth looking into.
If it were me, I'd drop the biscuit and I'd switch to 2 pounds of plain table sugar, added towards the end of the boil.

What are you trying to achieve with the flavors? It does seem like the intense hops might overwhelm the more subtle aspects of the yeast. Maybe try the recipe with lower hopping the first time around?
 
First..without age itll taste like 3 beers in one 12 oz bottle, this will need 9 months to mellow.
your gonna be waiting on the banana flavors of the yeast to chill, the hotness of the belgian candi to chill and the crazy hop schedule to chill, but I got my money on one crazy beer here.
I disagree with the 2 lbs of table sugar, I think itll make it wayyy boozy. I really think time will tell . Joe
 
I disagree with the 2 lbs of table sugar, I think itll make it wayyy boozy. I really think time will tell . Joe

Have you used 2 pounds of table sugar in a Belgian style recipe? Why don't you give it a shot. I can assure you that the result is not boozy.
 
I was trying to get something that would combine a citurs/floral with a more spicy/earthy flavor and aroma. Will this overwhelm the yeast character?

I think going hop-heavy on a Belgian would overwhelm the yeast character, which is what makes a Belgian... Well... A Belgian. Belgian ales are typically pretty lightly hopped to let the complexity of those yeasts really shine through. That's where the spicy/citrus/floral flavors come from in those beers.

As others have mentioned, Belgian ales are typically very dry as well so they don't really have much malt sweetness to balance out a big hop bill.

Just my 2 cents. I love Belgian beers and don't care much for hop bombs so I'm definitely biased against these kinds of shenanigans . :p
 
I really like the dry finish of Belgian Tripels & Golden Strongs, and the way to get high Apparent Attenuation is by mashing low and using more sugar than you'd think. Looks like you're doing a partial mash, so aim for the low range 147-149F. I've read about folks adding the DME/LME to the mash to make it more attenuable as well. Might be worth looking into.
If it were me, I'd drop the biscuit and I'd switch to 2 pounds of plain table sugar, added towards the end of the boil.

What are you trying to achieve with the flavors? It does seem like the intense hops might overwhelm the more subtle aspects of the yeast. Maybe try the recipe with lower hopping the first time around?

I wanted a big hop aroma and flavor (both citrus and spice) to work alongside the yeast profile of a belgian tripel. What would you do for the hop schedule?
 
I changed the grain bill a little. Added some more belgian candy sugar to dry it out more, and removed the aromatic malt. This look better, or worse? Any other suggestions?

% LB OZ Malt or Fermentable
55% 7 0 Light/Pale Malt Extract Syrup
31% 4 0 Belgian Pilsner
12% 1 8 Belgian Candy Sugar Light
2% 0 4 Biscuit Malt
 
Have you used 2 pounds of table sugar in a Belgian style recipe? Why don't you give it a shot. I can assure you that the result is not boozy.
I have not tried this, but i will look more into it, are you saying to couple the 2 pounds with the candi sugar to = 3 lbs? or subbing the candi with table sugar..Joe
 
I have not tried this, but i will look more into it, are you saying to couple the 2 pounds with the candi sugar to = 3 lbs? or subbing the candi with table sugar..Joe

Replace the 1# candi sugar with ~2# table sugar. Clear candi sugar is effectively table sugar. I've used both table sugar and corn sugar and haven't noticed a difference.
 
I wanted a big hop aroma and flavor (both citrus and spice) to work alongside the yeast profile of a belgian tripel. What would you do for the hop schedule?

The more I look at the hopping, I could see this making a tasty beer.

I say pull the trigger and see how it comes out. It should still be beer :)
And if the hopping overwhelms the yeast, it would still still be a tasty hoppy beer :mug:
 
thanks for all of the advice - it is greatly appreciated.

i already have the candi sugar, a friend i brew with on occasion already bought it. otherwise i would definitely use table sugar.

as far as the hops go, i think i will drop the 2oz 10 minute addition of styrian goldings down to 1oz. won't lower ibu too much (down to about 60 instead of close to 65), but i think it might help the yeast flavor shine through a bit more. i am excited to see how ahtanum and saaz work together (i am assuming well, considering amarillo worked with saaz in the houblon chouffe dobbelen ipa tripel).

i am going to end up brewing this in november (i have no room! all my carboys are filled for a month).
 
Wondering if you've brewed this yet?

I brewed a Belgian-ish IPA a couple of months ago, and I'm very happy with it now that it's on tap. The phenolics of the yeast complement the Perle hops very nicely.
Anyway, here's the recipe:
9.2# Pils malt
1 oz 8% Perle FWH
1 oz 8% Perle at 60 min
1 oz 8% Perle at 20 min

Mash at 156F
OG 1.054

Split the batch into two 2.5g amounts
Ferment one with US-05 at 65F
Ferment the other half with 3787 at 65F
The low temp creates some interesting clove-like phenols with the 3787.
After fermentation, blend back together.

I did taste the beers separately, and it is much better blended.
 
So I finally ended up brewing this last Saturday afternoon/night:

13lbs 8 oz Belgian Pilsner
6oz Belgian Biscuit Malt
2lbs Belgian Light Candy Sugar

wanted an OG of 1.084, but due to 67% efficiency (my first all grain batch) I missed the mark. to compensate i put in a bit of light dme - however, this bit turend out to be more like a pound and gave me an OG of 1.09.

Mashed low - 149 for 90 minutes with no mash out, and then batch sparged at 168. Did a 90 minute 7 gallon boil for a 5 gallon batch. expected SRM was 6 and after a week in primary i would say that is accurate, if not a bit lighter.

I got rid of the styrian goldings from my recipe due to home brew mart being out of them. Also, their saaz said 6.8% alpha acid, so my guess is these were really Saaz B, or Motueka, from New Zealand.

Here is the hop schedule:

80 min Warrior
10 min Motueka
5 min Ahtanum
1 min Ahtanum
1 min Motueka

after about another week or so in primary, and roughly two more in secondary I will dry hop for 2 weeks with an ounce of Motueka and Ahtanum each.

WLP 500 in about 6 days brought this all the way down to 1.016 - giving me 82% attenuation and 9.7% abv. I roused the yeast back into suspension and will give it another week or so in primary to see if I can get it any lower, but I am guessing it is mostly done. I started the yeast out around 68 degrees and bumped it up a degree a day until it hit 72, at which point it was going crazy. 2 days later the krausen had fallen and air lock activity had mostly stopped. I have it 72 degrees still.

The first taste test revealed a dry body with slight graininess. The yeast was present, but not dominant over the hops - very fruity with clovey accents. The hops worked pretty well with the yeast - not overpowering, and the citrus, spice, fruitiness of the hops used really pairs well with the yeast. The 64 IBU's was just enough to have a presence, but not to overwhelm. The alcohol is incredibly present though. This beer tastes young and the finish is definitely spiked with ethanol flavors. More time in the primary and secondary, plus dry hopping to mask those flavors, should help significantly.

Happy so far with this - I think this will turn out to be my best beer yet! Thanks so much for the advice.
 
The beer has been bottle conditioning for a month, so I decided to open a bottle last night and I was not disappointed. This is by far the best beer I have ever made. Being patient and letting this one go a month in primary, and a few weeks in secondary before dry hopping it really made a difference. The beer ended up jumping all the way to 10-11% abv - wlp500 is insanely attenuative! However, the beer has remained light with no booze aroma or tasted.

Tasting Notes:

Aroma: The hops are the first obvious aromatic assault. I feel like I could smell them from across the room. Tropical fruit, lime, and spice. However, the yeast definitely was more present in the nose than I was anticipating. The clove like character really worked well with the spice notes from Saaz B. A friend of mine said that after a while all he could smell was banana, to the point that he started disliking the beer. As the beer warmed the banana aroma was fairly strong, but I found it enjoyable.

Mouthfeel: Dry, light, semi-crisp.

Taste: Juicyfruit and citrus from the hops, mingles with banana and clove from the yeast. The bitterness is very in check and this beer could almost be bumped up 10-20 ibu's without the beer suffering at all. Dangerously drinkable for a beer with this much alcohol. The hops do not dominate, neither does the yeast. Virtually no flavor from the malt - the hops and yeast are too strong for it to shine through.

Thanks to all for the advice - I am blown away by the results. Turned out to be very unique as well, can't think of a beer available that tastes like this.
 
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