Getting started with electric brewing: to PID or not to PID

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CanadianNorth

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Ok,

So I am moving the ol' brewing indoors.

I have been brewing for just over two years, I've done a couple dozen batches.

I don't have the dime for a setup like electricbrewery.com (go Senators!), at least not yet. I want to start small while keeping things efficient.

After a couple of posts and a lot of reading, I am stepping away from heatsticks and going for an in-pot 5500w 240v element (12gal pot). I do "5 gal" batches (starting with 8 gal of wort, boiled down to 6, previously on a massive propane burner).

So right now I am looking at one element in one pot, to be a multipurpose HLT and BK (I can make it work).

Here is the catch:
I need a way to 'tune down' the element once I hit boil. A PID will run me $60, SSR and heatsink wil run $25.

The PID/SSR option is most likely the best move - and I will go that way eventually, but the cost (after just buying the element and a 30A 240V GFCI breaker) is not cool.

So the question to the forum is; is there a cheaper way to control the heat output? An analog dial, for example the type on a stove, perhaps with an SSR?


I'm not really concerned right now about reading the temperature, I have lots of thermometers to do that.
Thanks!!
 
Do a search for PWM. This is a very inexpensive way to control the percentage of power going to the element.

Walker uses this.
 
Thanks.
I know I will likely get a PID for my HLT eventually.

I have read that I only need one SSR/heatsink for a PID, do I need more than one SSR/heatsink for a PWM?
 
At a minimum, you will need either two SSRs or one SSR and a hard shut off, i.e., a contactor. Otherwise you will only be turning off one hot limb of the 240 vac circuit. Here is a reasonably priced contactor:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=129

SSRs usually fail "closed" which is why I think it is preferable to have a hard shut off. I personally use one SSR and a contactor. Some will argue for two SSRs which is also safe because it would be really unusual for both SSRs to fail simultaneously. I suppose the most safe way would be two SSRs and a contactor. I find the contactor very useful, especially at boil over time. I use my contactors to turn off my elements many times during a typical brewday.
 
I do 10-11 gallon batches with a friend. Our kettle has two elements: 3500W and 4000W. We just switch one leg of the 240V on or off to cut power to each element. (Each element has a switch). To get our strike water or wort to a boil, we run both elements, then shut off one element to maintain a boil.

Dead simple.
 
I do 10-11 gallon batches with a friend. Our kettle has two elements: 3500W and 4000W. We just switch one leg of the 240V on or off to cut power to each element. (Each element has a switch). To get our strike water or wort to a boil, we run both elements, then shut off one element to maintain a boil.

Dead simple.

You're absolutely right - only trick is I don't think I have room in my pot to put two heating elements and stil use my wort chiller. I know I could get a plate chiller or a counterflow chiller, but I like the convience of my 'drop in' wort chiller......
 
Go to no-chill. A valve on your kettle with a couple feet of silicone hose, and a 6 gallon water jug (green/aqua colour) from Canadian Tire. At the end of your boil, just drain it into the clean & sanitized jug. Wait a day, then pitch it into a bucket or carboy.

We do exactly that and produce fine beer. Saves time too. :)
 
At a minimum, you will need either two SSRs or one SSR and a hard shut off, i.e., a contactor. Otherwise you will only be turning off one hot limb of the 240 vac circuit. Here is a reasonably priced contactor:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=129

SSRs usually fail "closed" which is why I think it is preferable to have a hard shut off. I personally use one SSR and a contactor. Some will argue for two SSRs which is also safe because it would be really unusual for both SSRs to fail simultaneously. I suppose the most safe way would be two SSRs and a contactor. I find the contactor very useful, especially at boil over time. I use my contactors to turn off my elements many times during a typical brewday.

So, are you using the contactor as a switch? Is the contactor connected to your PWM?


I am thinking of using two SSR's and a standard double pole switch.
 
Yes, you use the contactor as an on/off switch for the 240 vac circuit that feeds your element. It is not wired to the pid or pwm. The contactor costs about the same as 240 vac, 30 amp double pole switch.
 
You could get a proportional controller: https://www.alliedelec.com/search/productdetail.aspx?SKU=6823038

Then control it with a cheap potentiometer and a battery.

I really like this idea. I'm in a similar situation to that of the original poster right now. I live in a relatively small 2nd floor apartment where brewing outside is huge pain. I know I won't be living here forever, so I want a relatively inexpensive and, most importantly, small and simple solution. I have easy access to the 50A range circuit, so my plan is to use a 4500W element. But as mentioned, I need some way to reduce the power once a full boil is reached.

Another enticing option is this:
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/ProductCart/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-306p3084.htm

The price tag seems high at first, but once you start adding up all the parts it seems fair. I know that's a 30A plug, but I could build a little cord with a fuse to adapt it to the 50A outlet.

He also has a more advanced control box that has an interior photo. I've consulted with several electrically minded friends and none of us can figure out what components he's using. There's obviously a small DC circuit with a potentiometer but I can't figure out where the DC voltage is coming from or what actually controls the AC output. Any ideas?
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/ProductCart/pc/EBC-II-with-Infinite-Power-Control-306p3073.htm
 
I really like this idea. I'm in a similar situation to that of the original poster right now. I live in a relatively small 2nd floor apartment where brewing outside is huge pain. I know I won't be living here forever, so I want a relatively inexpensive and, most importantly, small and simple solution. I have easy access to the 50A range circuit, so my plan is to use a 4500W element. But as mentioned, I need some way to reduce the power once a full boil is reached.

Another enticing option is this:
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/ProductCart/pc/Electric-Kettle-Controller-306p3084.htm

The price tag seems high at first, but once you start adding up all the parts it seems fair. I know that's a 30A plug, but I could build a little cord with a fuse to adapt it to the 50A outlet.

He also has a more advanced control box that has an interior photo. I've consulted with several electrically minded friends and none of us can figure out what components he's using. There's obviously a small DC circuit with a potentiometer but I can't figure out where the DC voltage is coming from or what actually controls the AC output. Any ideas?
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/ProductCart/pc/EBC-II-with-Infinite-Power-Control-306p3073.htm

The electric kettle control is interestng, looks like a pwm w/relay and switch. Make sure you are using either a gfi breaker in your panel or a cord with built in gfi!
 
Haha, yes, I've read enough electric brewing threads on here to know all about GFIs. Unfortunately I have the old 3 wire setup (no ground) so I have to put one in the panel itself.

I agree that the electric kettle has some kind of PWM, but wouldn't that require a DC voltage source? I don't see a transformer anywhere in there. Could they be using AC power to charge a capacitor and then power the DC signal from that?
 
I get it. 120v to run the contactor.


Could a two pole contactor could handle both lines of a 240V heater????

Why would this be different than a physical switch?


maybe the magnetic contactor gives you the option of some type of automatic control, whereas a toggle switch is strictly manual...
 
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