Good hops to complement Chinook?

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Skep18

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I bought a few kits of the Chinook IPA from NB on their Columbus Day sale and I wanted to make the beer a bit more interesting. I've made 2 of the 3 I bought, and liked them, but for the third, I was hoping to make a hoppier version. The recipe, as is, is more of a Pale Ale, not so much IPA. Reminds me of Sieera Nevada or something. Can anyone recommend a good hop compliment to the Chinook hops and make it more of an IPA? I'm pretty open to hop flavor profiles, but this one seems to need a bit more floral or even light citrus.

Per NB, recipe as follows:

OG: 1.053

KIT INVENTORY:

SPECIALTY GRAIN
- 0.75 lbs Belgian Caramel Pils
- 0.25 lbs Briess Caramel 120

FERMENTABLES
- 6 lbs Pilsen malt syrup
- 1 lb Pilsen dry malt extract

HOPS & FLAVORINGS
- 1 oz Chinook (60 min)
- 0.5 oz Chinook (10 min)
- 0.5 oz Chinook (1 min)
- 1 oz Chinook (dry hop)

Per BeerAdvocate:

Chinook is a bittering variety with aroma characteristics released in May, 1985. It was bred by crossing a Petham Golding with the USDA 63012 male.

A high alpha acid hop with a wonderful herbal, almost smoky character when used as an aromatic during the last few minutes of the boil when dry hoping. Excellent for hopping American-style Pale Ales, especially those brewed to higher gravities. (alpha acid: 12.0-14.0% / beta acid: 3.0-4.0%)
 
Brew it as is. It's a great recipe and it sounds like a good way to better understand chinook for future brews since you dont sound real familar with it
 
I just did a pale ale with chinook and citra and it turned out great. I kept the chinook as the bittering hop and then paired both for the later additions and dry hopping.
 
I bought a few kits of the Chinook IPA from NB on their Columbus Day sale and I wanted to make the beer a bit more interesting. I've made 2 of the 3 I bought, and liked them, but for the third, I was hoping to make a hoppier version. The recipe, as is, is more of a Pale Ale, not so much IPA. Reminds me of Sieera Nevada or something. Can anyone recommend a good hop compliment to the Chinook hops and make it more of an IPA? I'm pretty open to hop flavor profiles, but this one seems to need a bit more floral or even light citrus.

Per NB, recipe as follows:



Per BeerAdvocate:
Will the info on hops in this link help?
http://www.brew365.com/hop_substitution_chart.php
 
Brew it as is. It's a great recipe and it sounds like a good way to better understand chinook for future brews since you dont sound real familar with it

I have 2 batches of this recipe on tap. Looking for something else. I admittedly have little experience in brewing, but dunno that a 3rd batch will do me as much good as exploring pairing options. But thanks for the input.

I just did a pale ale with chinook and citra and it turned out great. I kept the chinook as the bittering hop and then paired both for the later additions and dry hopping.

I was thinking about that as I've heard it can be a good, strong IPA hop.


Definitely does, thanks!
 
One of my last brews was a chinook/cascade pale ale (borderline IPA territory). Hop stand and dry hopped with both. Great combo.
 
Haha, well looks like I made a good choice. After the link to the hops pairings page, I went out and bought 3oz of Cascade. Can anyone recommend how I might add this to the boil? I was thinking...

1oz @ 20min
1oz @ 10min
1oz @ 0min

Or something like that? Should I use like 0.5oz as a bittering addition? Should I rearrange the Chinook boil schedule? I suppose I could just match the Chinook boil schedule with equal parts Cascade.

Planning on brewing this tonight, so any expedient input would be much appreciated!
 
My last batch (with a somewhat similar grainbill) with cascade (7.3% AA) /chinook (11%) was:

1 oz Cascade @ 60
.5 oz Cascade @ 30
.5 oz Cascade @ 10
1 oz Cascade + .5 oz Chinook @ flameout
1.5 oz Chinook + 1 oz Cascade for a hop stand (I cooled as quickly as I can down to ~ 170 deg, then steeped these for about 45 mins before cooling to pitching temps.)
1 oz Cascade + 1 oz Chinook for 7 day dry hop before bottling.

Notes: First, loved the combo. 2nd - I've had a lot of experience with cascade, and this was a first for me with Chinook, and really wanted to see what Chinook added in the aroma/flavor realm). I had plenty of extra Cascade on hand, so I used these up for my bittering to hit my goal of 46 IBU's (although a higher AA would've allowed me to use less in the boil.)

While Chinook would've got me higher bittering with less hops, (a) I've read Chinook can lead to a "harsher" bittering - whether that's true or not (I still wouldn't shy from using them as bittering), and (b) I wanted to save all my Chinook for flavor and huge aroma, with Cascade mixed into the late additions hoping to complement one another. It worked! They are very nice together.

If it was me, I'd move your late Chinook additions all to flameout (and/or hop stand if you haven't tried it), and at least 1.5 - 2 oz reserved for dry hopping. That would really give you the aroma punch, if your going for that. At 20 mins, you'll get more bittering and minimal flavor/aroma, from my experiences. (I still occasionally layer in hops between 30 mins and flameout, but if I really want a big hop aroma punch - I load up heavy late additions as mentioned above.)

Let us know how yours comes out. Cheers!
 
My last batch (with a somewhat similar grainbill) with cascade (7.3% AA) /chinook (11%) was:

1 oz Cascade @ 60
.5 oz Cascade @ 30
.5 oz Cascade @ 10
1 oz Cascade + .5 oz Chinook @ flameout
1.5 oz Chinook + 1 oz Cascade for a hop stand (I cooled as quickly as I can down to ~ 170 deg, then steeped these for about 45 mins before cooling to pitching temps.)
1 oz Cascade + 1 oz Chinook for 7 day dry hop before bottling.

Notes: First, loved the combo. 2nd - I've had a lot of experience with cascade, and this was a first for me with Chinook, and really wanted to see what Chinook added in the aroma/flavor realm). I had plenty of extra Cascade on hand, so I used these up for my bittering to hit my goal of 46 IBU's (although a higher AA would've allowed me to use less in the boil.)

While Chinook would've got me higher bittering with less hops, (a) I've read Chinook can lead to a "harsher" bittering - whether that's true or not (I still wouldn't shy from using them as bittering), and (b) I wanted to save all my Chinook for flavor and huge aroma, with Cascade mixed into the late additions hoping to complement one another. It worked! They are very nice together.

If it was me, I'd move your late Chinook additions all to flameout (and/or hop stand if you haven't tried it), and at least 1.5 - 2 oz reserved for dry hopping. That would really give you the aroma punch, if your going for that. At 20 mins, you'll get more bittering and minimal flavor/aroma, from my experiences. (I still occasionally layer in hops between 30 mins and flameout, but if I really want a big hop aroma punch - I load up heavy late additions as mentioned above.)

Let us know how yours comes out. Cheers!

Wow you really know your stuff! I will definitely take those notes into consideration when reviewing my brew, lol.

As a background FYI, I have done 6 "kits" in my brewing experience. I have none experience with making my own boil plans, so now I'm a bit nervous about what I did in this batch. I did brew it last night. My boil ended up being as follows (IIRC, but if not, it was close. I wrote it down, but its at home). The LHBS wrote "4%" on my Cascade bag, so I assume that's AA?:

1.0 oz Chinook @ 60min
1.0 oz Chinook @ 40min
0.5 oz Cascade @ 40min
1.0 oz Cascade @ 10min
1.0 oz Chinook @ 5min
1.0 oz Cascade @ 5min
0.5 oz Cascade @ 0min

Why did I do that? I have no idea... lol. My thought was I have drank the Chinook IPA and like the bitters, but wanted more aroma. I have liked late Cascade in the past (I think) so viola, I did that... Probably a bad reason, but I have an empty keg and I was in a hurry to get it going to fill it and this weekend was it.

Originally (last night when scribbling up the boil additions) I said screw it with the dry hopping and forewent that for more boiled hops. I'm beginning to second guess that thought.

Should I go back and buy some Cascade for dry hopping? Any clue on what to expect from this beer? Does the boil schedule above sound like something disgusting? lol. I know you can't know, but just some thoughts would be appreciated. Beginning to think I just threw away my (admittedly small) investment on this brew.
 
Chinook is the hop for Arrogant Bastard! I just opened my firs bottle and did a side by side and my wife thought that my brew was the original!
Super easy and simple!

90%2 row 10% special b
1.0 oz Chinook intervals

90 min
45 min
15 min
0 min

Dry hop 1.0 oz

Mine is on the right

image-2719367139.jpg
 
Skep18 - that sounds like a great hop schedule. Should turn out great. A few things I've learned since I started brewing: Depending on how quickly you chill the wort after flameout, a lot of the "late" additions (ie...anywhere from 5-30 mins) may end up contributing more bitterness and lose the flavor/aroma you had hoped for. That's exactly why I've started trying the hop-stand/hop-bursting/whirlpool additions. You'll read a lot of different terminology for the same concept, and a lot of different methods (especially the temps, times, etc). Just keep in mind that the longer get the wort is over 170-180 deg, it will still impart "some" bitterness, and the aroma will tend to fade.

My hop-stand technique, again, is to chill as rapidly as your system allows (mine is rudimentary - a bathtub full of ice and frequent gentle stirring) - down to about 170, then steep hops for 45 mins to an hr, then finish chilling down to pitching temps. A lot of brewers will attest that this or similar method will give a great hop aroma, even without dry hopping. You could see how it comes out as is, or dry hop later for even more aroma. I didn't do a hop stand or dry hopping for a long while, and had great results without, but that hop aroma sure fades quickly the longer it sits in bottles or keg. An oz or 2 of either cascade or chinook for dry hop would be great, or 1 of each perhaps. Lately, I've been craving intense hop aroma, so I've done heavy additions around 5 mins to flameout, as well as both hop-stand and dry hop.

Let us know if you end up leaving as is, or decide to dry hop, and how it turns out!

(Also - if you do dry hop, wait at least until active fermentation is completed, then dry hop for 5-7 days before bottling/kegging. Otherwise, a lot of the hop oils will stick to the yeast and over particles during the active part of fermentation, and fall out with the trub, and won't have near as much benefit.)
 
Chinook is the hop for Arrogant Bastard! I just opened my firs bottle and did a side by side and my wife thought that my brew was the original!
Super easy and simple!

90%2 row 10% special b
1.0 oz Chinook intervals

90 min
45 min
15 min
0 min

Dry hop 1.0 oz

Mine is on the right

Wow, didn't know that. I have 2 kegs of the Chinook IPA, well, one i kegged, another is about to be kegged. One was dry hopped, the other wasn't. I am currently drinking the non-dry hopped one and its really is a good beer. ~5.5% ABV, it's very drinkable and enjoyable. As mentioned, its a bit quiet on the hops, sort of, more like Sierra Nevada IMO. I've yet to try the dry hopped beer, so we'll see.

Skep18 - that sounds like a great hop schedule. Should turn out great. A few things I've learned since I started brewing: Depending on how quickly you chill the wort after flameout, a lot of the "late" additions (ie...anywhere from 5-30 mins) may end up contributing more bitterness and lose the flavor/aroma you had hoped for. That's exactly why I've started trying the hop-stand/hop-bursting/whirlpool additions. You'll read a lot of different terminology for the same concept, and a lot of different methods (especially the temps, times, etc). Just keep in mind that the longer get the wort is over 170-180 deg, it will still impart "some" bitterness, and the aroma will tend to fade.

My hop-stand technique, again, is to chill as rapidly as your system allows (mine is rudimentary - a bathtub full of ice and frequent gentle stirring) - down to about 170, then steep hops for 45 mins to an hr, then finish chilling down to pitching temps. A lot of brewers will attest that this or similar method will give a great hop aroma, even without dry hopping. You could see how it comes out as is, or dry hop later for even more aroma. I didn't do a hop stand or dry hopping for a long while, and had great results without, but that hop aroma sure fades quickly the longer it sits in bottles or keg. An oz or 2 of either cascade or chinook for dry hop would be great, or 1 of each perhaps. Lately, I've been craving intense hop aroma, so I've done heavy additions around 5 mins to flameout, as well as both hop-stand and dry hop.

Let us know if you end up leaving as is, or decide to dry hop, and how it turns out!

(Also - if you do dry hop, wait at least until active fermentation is completed, then dry hop for 5-7 days before bottling/kegging. Otherwise, a lot of the hop oils will stick to the yeast and over particles during the active part of fermentation, and fall out with the trub, and won't have near as much benefit.)

I see, I'll have to try the hop-stand trick! Depending on how good/bad this brew turns out, I may go back to kits (which I can't mess up) or not. But I can attest to one thing. Stuff like Stouts and Brown Ales, those seem pretty easy to get right, at least relative to IPA's. Getting that hop aroma just right is proving to be a lot more involved than I thought.

And I have thus far typically been following some of this forum's advice of letting my beers sit in primary for a month. As such, I've been leaving the beer on the yeast cake for a month, dry hopping in a hop bag for ~5 days before kegging. In an effort to try and eliminate variables, I figured this was a proven way on these forums, so I wouldn't try to vary this technique. Though I have been reading IPA's are best fresh, so in the future, I may try and monitor fermentation and get it out sooner? Eitehr way, when I dry hop, the beer has typically been in primary for 3.5 weeks. No worries of yeasties still churning around.
 
Thanks everyone for the great input. I will be sure to post up my perceived review of the beer when it does finally get kegged. I think I'll get an ounce or two of Cascade and dry hop with that. From the post above, seems like I should ahve done more 0min additions if not hop standing. Thanks!
 
1.0 oz Chinook @ 60min
1.0 oz Chinook @ 40min
0.5 oz Cascade @ 40min
1.0 oz Cascade @ 10min
1.0 oz Chinook @ 5min
1.0 oz Cascade @ 5min
0.5 oz Cascade @ 0min
<snip>

Should I go back and buy some Cascade for dry hopping? Any clue on what to expect from this beer? Does the boil schedule above sound like something disgusting? lol. I know you can't know, but just some thoughts would be appreciated. Beginning to think I just threw away my (admittedly small) investment on this brew.
that hopping schedule, IMO, is fine - but i would have skipped the 40 minute additions. at 40 minutes you're boiling away almost all of the aroma and flavor, and you're not getting 100% of the bitterness... worse of both worlds. i would have moved some of those hops to 60 mins, and the rest to 0.

definitely get some more cascade for dry-hopping. at least 2 oz.
 
that hopping schedule, IMO, is fine - but i would have skipped the 40 minute additions. at 40 minutes you're boiling away almost all of the aroma and flavor, and you're not getting 100% of the bitterness... worse of both worlds. i would have moved some of those hops to 60 mins, and the rest to 0.

definitely get some more cascade for dry-hopping. at least 2 oz.

Thanks for the boil advice. Never thought of it that way. I suppose that's why 40min never shows up on recipes, lol.
 
You don't need to let you beer sit in primary for a month. At the right temps, and with proper pitching rates, fermentation will be done in a week, two at the most. The sooner you keg those IPAs the less aroma you will lose.
 
You don't need to let you beer sit in primary for a month. At the right temps, and with proper pitching rates, fermentation will be done in a week, two at the most. The sooner you keg those IPAs the less aroma you will lose.

So no benefit letting it sit on the yeast cake? No reprocessing of those harsh alcohols/compounds? Just asking, but I know this is a controversial subject.
 
So no benefit letting it sit on the yeast cake? No reprocessing of those harsh alcohols/compounds? Just asking, but I know this is a controversial subject.
yes, there is benefit - but that benefit doesn't require a month.

if you ferment correctly (healthy yeast, temp control, nutrients, aeration, etc etc etc) then you won't create as many compounds that need to be cleaned up. hence, once FG is reached you need maybe 3 days of clean-up time. on most average gravity beers that's somewhere around 5-10 days, so 2 weeks allows plenty of time for clean-up. certainly no harm in waiting longer, but if you're in a rush...

however, "ferment correctly" isn't always the case. fermentation can take longer than 10 days, and more crap that needs to be cleaned is generated - requiring a longer post-FG period. that's why the common advice is three weeks in primary. without knowing a person's process, you're better off erring on the long side and making sure that the beer has had every chance to finish up.

most brewers who ask "how long should i wait" tend to not have their processes nailed down, and hence could benefit a longer primary. and often by the time they've got good fermentation practices down, they typically don't need to ask anymore.
 
sweetcell said:
yes, there is benefit - but that benefit doesn't require a month. if you ferment correctly (healthy yeast, temp control, nutrients, aeration, etc etc etc) then you won't create as many compounds that need to be cleaned up. hence, once FG is reached you need maybe 3 days of clean-up time. on most average gravity beers that's somewhere around 5-10 days, so 2 weeks allows plenty of time for clean-up. certainly no harm in waiting longer, but if you're in a rush... however, "ferment correctly" isn't always the case. fermentation can take longer than 10 days, and more crap that needs to be cleaned is generated - requiring a longer post-FG period. that's why the common advice is three weeks in primary. without knowing a person's process, you're better off erring on the long side and making sure that the beer has had every chance to finish up. most brewers who ask "how long should i wait" tend to not have their processes nailed down, and hence could benefit a longer primary. and often by the time they've got good fermentation practices down, they typically don't need to ask anymore.

+1 on all of your points
 
Doing this recipe again as the last one turned out pretty good after a week or 2 in the keg. This time, I'm using 4oz of Cascade and 4oz of Chinook.

Might anyone want to advise on a boil schedule for this one? Think I'm going to listen to the guy above and stick to early and late additions.

Thanks.
 
1 oz at 60 (or however much you need to get your desired IBUs, use chinook since it's going to be higher AA%)
1 oz at 10
2 oz at 5
2 oz at flame-out
2 oz dry-hop

you could also do a hop stand:
1 oz at 60 (or however much you need to get your desired IBUs, use chinook since it's going to be higher AA%)
1 oz at 5
2 oz at flame-out, let sit for 10 minutes
2 oz at 175-180*F (chill down to 175-180*F, add hops, stir quickly, cover, let rest for 20 mins, then resume chilling)
2 oz dry-hop

if you have any additional hops, increase the dry-hop to 3 or 4 oz.
 
1 oz at 60 (or however much you need to get your desired IBUs, use chinook since it's going to be higher AA%)
1 oz at 10
2 oz at 5
2 oz at flame-out
2 oz dry-hop

you could also do a hop stand:
1 oz at 60 (or however much you need to get your desired IBUs, use chinook since it's going to be higher AA%)
1 oz at 5
2 oz at flame-out, let sit for 10 minutes
2 oz at 175-180*F (chill down to 175-180*F, add hops, stir quickly, cover, let rest for 20 mins, then resume chilling)
2 oz dry-hop

if you have any additional hops, increase the dry-hop to 3 or 4 oz.

Thanks for the response! So few hops at 60min. Will it have much bitter character? Think my Chinook is 11% AA? Idk, the LHBS wrote 11% on the bag. Forgive me as I'm not fully versed in IBU calculation just yet, but it looks like it might yield somewhere in the mid 60's range?
 
So few hops at 60min. Will it have much bitter character?
the 60 minute addition is where you get most of your bittering, so add as much or as little as you need to achieve your desired level of bitterness (taking into consideration that you'll also get a few IBUs from your late additions). use software to calculate your projected IBUs. i'm a big fan of BeerSmith, one of the better brewing-related investments i've made, but there are free alternatives too like brewtoad.com. put in your recipe, water volumes, boil length, hop additions, etc into the software and see how many IBUs are estimated. if the IBUs aren't what you want, change them by varying your 60 minute addition up or down. if 1 oz of chinook doesn't get you enough IBUs, trying plugging in 1.1 or 1.2 oz.

Forgive me as I'm not fully versed in IBU calculation just yet, but it looks like it might yield somewhere in the mid 60's range?
without knowing your recipe and process (length of boil? all grain or late-addition extract? full boil or top-up? size of batch? etc) there is no way of knowing how many IBUs you'll get. hence the need to set up your recipe and process in software before you can get an estimate.
 
I also bought a Chinook IPA kit from NB when they were on sale. It is currently bubbling away in the fermentor. I was planning to add an oz of Amarillo with the 1 oz Chinook but curious about maybe doing a hop tea with a portion of those hops. Any advice or thoughts on a hop tea with the dry hop would be appreciated.
 
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