First recipe, please help :): British Barley Wine

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Anubis01

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Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forum, so let me know if this post is in the wrong place. I started brewing about a year ago, and I really want to start making my own recipes. I've been in the mood to make a British barley wine, so the recipe that I have here is my first attempt of self-generating a barley wine recipe. I'm not quite sure how it will turn out (i.e. taste, aroma, body, aftertaste, etc), though BeerSmith 2 has told me that its profile is middle of the road for a traditional British barley wine. Please let me know if this beer sounds like it will turn out ok, or even better if you can think of ways to improve on this. Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer!

Profile:
Estimated OG: 1.102 SG
IBUs: 52.5 IBUs
Color: 16 SRM
Estimated ABV: 11.7%

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fenris
Style: English Barleywine
TYPE: Whole grain/ partial mash (I don't know what to consider this since I'm adding honey after sparging)
Taste: (30.0)


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 gal Boston, MA Water 1 -
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 58.4 %
3 lbs 6.8 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 16.7 %
1 lbs 7.2 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
2.9 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 5 0.9 %
3.77 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil Hop 6 41.1 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 7 -
1.40 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Aroma Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) [35.4 Yeast 9 -
3 lbs 8.0 oz Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 10 17.0 %


Directions:

1) Heat 2.5 gallons of water to 42 C and add grain. Cook at 39-42 C for 20 mins. Add 2.5 gallons of boiling water to achieve a temperature of 60-62 C, and cook for 30 mins. Heat to 67-70 C for 1 hour and 15 mins.

2) Sparge grains. Add honey and stir till dissolved. Bring to boil and add East Kent Goldings at beginning of boil. Add again at 30 mins in to the boil

3) Add Cascade and irish moss 45 minutes in to boil.

4) After boiling for 1 hr, turn off burner and remove from heat.

5) Move to primary fermentor containing 2 gallons of cold water. Allow to cool, then pitch yeast from starter culture ( How large should my starter culture be for a 5 gallon batch? ). Ferment for two months at about 25 C.

6) Rack into secondary and add fresh yeast (1 fresh vial of Edinburgh Ale yeast). Let ferment for another month before bottling. Move to fridge for an additional month.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Thanks again!
-F
 
It would be considered all-grain. Sounds good! 52 IBUs seems like it may be a little low to balance the 1.102 OG, thats about 1:2 BU:GU ratio. Some style sticklers(not me) might not consider this "english" with the cascade addition.
 
Personally, I like cascade better, but fuggle would match "style guidelines." On your yeast, Mrmalty.com recommends a 3.13 L starter, with two vials. Likely won't need to let it sit in primary for two months, or do the second pitch. Also, if you hope to keep any flavor/aroma from the honey I'd move it to 5-10 min left in the boil. May also consider a 90 minute boil, just to get a little carmelization. I really like that in barleywines.
 
@ smokinj: Ok, will do! As for the hops, I'll see what I have at the time I brew. As for the primary, would 1 month work instead of 2 or would it be best if I let it sit for 2 months anyway? How would I be able to tell if I need to do a second pitch or not? I've seen many recipes that do a second pitch, so I included that because I thought it was a required step.

If I switch everything over to a 90 minute boil how would this alter my boil schedule? Would I have an extra addition of either EKG or Fuggle/Cascade? What would you recommend?
 
I like to keep it in primary until FG is reached then another couple weeks for the yeast to clean up after itself, then go to carboy for bulk aging. Main reason being that i primary in plastic buckets. The seals tend to leak when there is no pressure from active fermentation, whereas glass carboys are more airtight. You can bulk age for as long as you like. If you pitch the proper amount of yeast that should be plenty to do the job. You might consider using some champagne yeast at bottling, though, because the ale yeast will be very tired at that point and the high abv will also make it dificult for it to carb your beer. Your hop additions are based on time remaining in the boil so the will remain the same. So the 60 minute will go in after boiling for 30 minutes, and so on. If you do go with the 90 min. boil don't forget you will need to increase your preboil volume to account for the extra 30 minutes of boil off.
 
i'm not loving the grain bill at all
try all base malt (maris otter), some simple sugars (light brown sugar, honey, case sugar), and a very long boil (i did mine 3 hours)
no need to bog it down with over 3 pounds crystal malts and almost 3 pounds chocolate malt
i wouldn't think you'd need the flaked barley for head retention, since it's supposed to have low-to-moderate head anyway?

again, this is just my opinion on the style, so feel free to take it with a grain of salt
 
He only has 1% chocolate malt which I thought could add some nice depth there to the brew. I do think the crystal malt is a little high, but to each their own. Let us know how it turns out, I love me a good English Barleywine!
 
thats way too much crystal malt. with the size of the beer & low IBUs, there will be plenty of sweetness without all that crystal. i'd keep it under 10%

you shouldnt need to add any fresh yeast to this at bottling if u pitch at proper rates with that timeline

why the acid rest?
 
Ok, so I've made some revisions. Tell me how this looks now:

Estimated OG: 1.102 SG
IBUs: 50 IBUs
Color: 15.6 SRM
Estimated ABV: 12%

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Fenris
Style: English Barleywine
TYPE: Partial Mash
Taste: (30.0)


Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.00 gal Boston, MA Water 1 -
12 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM) Grain 2 62.3 %
3 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 3 15.6 %
4.0 oz Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 4 1.3 %
1 lbs Brown Sugar, Light (8.0 SRM) Sugar 5 5.2 %
2.40 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 60.0 Hop 6 40.2 IBUs
0.43 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 7 13.0 IBUs
0.87 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] - Boil 30.0 Hop 8 11.1 IBUs
0.25 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 9 -
1.0 pkg Edinburgh Ale (White Labs #WLP028) [35.4 Yeast 10 -
3 lbs Honey (1.0 SRM) Sugar 11 15.6 %
1.0 pkg Champagne Yeast (White Labs #WLP715) Yeast 10 -


Directions:

1) Heat 3.5 gallons of water to 42 C and add grain. Cook at 39-42 C for 20 mins. Add 3.5 gallons of boiling water to achieve a temperature of 60-62 C, and cook for 30 mins. Heat to 67-70 C for 1 hour and 15 mins.

2) Sparge grains. Add honey and stir till dissolved. Bring to boil and add East Kent Goldings 30 minutes in to boil. Add again at 60 mins in to the boil.

3) Add Cascade and irish moss 75 minutes in to boil.

4) After boiling for 90 mins, turn off burner and remove from heat.

5) Move to primary fermentor containing 1-2 gallons of cold water. Allow to cool, then pitch yeast. Ferment for two months at about 25 C.

6) Rack into secondary and add fresh yeast (1 fresh vial of Edinburgh Ale yeast). Let ferment for another month before bottling.

7) At bottling time, pitch champagne yeast. Move to fridge for 4 months.

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks again for all your help! I really appreciate it!
 
Looking good, but you may consider keeping some of the crystal, just maybe not 3.5# worth...maybe consider 1.5# or so. The brown sugar seems like it might be a nice touch. Also, another thought for simplicity...I've had good luck with a nice fat yeastcake of Nottingham for a Barleywine. Even after bulk aging for a month or 2 in the secondary, still had enough yeast for desired carbonation...no additional yeast required for bottling.

As an aside, loving the Anubis/Fenris references...
 
@ Beowulf: Ok, so I'll add back a pound of the Crystal (that doesn't change the profile by much. 1.104 SG, 49.2 IBUs, 16.2 SRM, and 12.7%). About the Nottingham yeastcake: Was this a starter culture that you made and then pitched the beer on top of for the primary fermentation?
 
thats way too much sugar (4lbs!) for a barleywine. you went from too sweet, to too dry.

just to reiterate, you have zero need to add any more yeast to this after the initial pitch

@dcp27: Acid rest? What is that (I've never heard of it before >.>)?

its your 40C rest. what are you trying to gain in doing that?
 
@dcp27: Do you mean in step 1? I saw that step in a few recipes I found online so I thought it was a part of making a barley wine. What would you recommend? Also, what if I cut the light brown sugar down to 2 pounds? I don't know what it too much or too little, so what would you recommend?
 
yes, your first step. its entirely unnecessary in a barleywine with todays fully modified grains. you can still do it if u want, i just think its a waste of time.

personally, i wouldnt go over 1lb sugar (that includes the honey btw) in a barleywine.
 
@ Beowulf: Ok, so I'll add back a pound of the Crystal (that doesn't change the profile by much. 1.104 SG, 49.2 IBUs, 16.2 SRM, and 12.7%). About the Nottingham yeastcake: Was this a starter culture that you made and then pitched the beer on top of for the primary fermentation?

It wasn't really a starter. I just made a smaller beer with a packet of Nottingham. The 5 gallon batch created a lot more yeast. After racking the first batch off the yeast, I just reused this yeast for my barleywine. So, I guess you could think of it as a 5-gallon starter :)
 
@dcp27: Ok, I'll just cut the brown sugar out then so I can keep the honey.

Thanks again everyone for your help! I'll let you know how it turns out.
 
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