Hybrid Fly Sparge Technique

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BierMuncher

...My Junk is Ugly...
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When I converted to this simple fly sparge method I picked up 8 points in efficiency. No extra equipment needed…just a change in the method for adding / draining wort from the mash tun. This method was discussed in a recent issue of BYO, but these are my own random notes.

In both cases…the approach to the vorlauf is the same.

Difference between batch and fly.
Batch Sparging – Uses a method of stirring and rinsing the grains several times to wash out the sugars. We drain the wort. Add more water. Stir. Drain the wort and repeat until we get our desired pre-boil volume.

Fly Sparging – Relies on a “squeegee” method of washing the sugar out of the grain bed. The grain bed may be stirred once just before sparging begins. Then the wort is drained very slowly and hot water is continually added to the top of the tun to maintain 2-3 inches of liquid over the grain bed. This hot clean water slowly pushes the sugar water down and out through the drain valve. By not stirring the grains, you are not re-suspending sugars in the grain bed and the rinse is (in theory) more complete.

Fly sparging does not require sparge arms, drip rings or other apparatus to get the desired effect. Though a hybrid approach may be somewhat less efficient than using a sparge arm…it is also much quicker. Hybrid Fly sparging is a nice compromise between the simplicity of batch sparging and the extreme efficiency of fly sparging.

Technique:

If you use a march pump to deliver your sparge water…you can adapt your system to this technique very easily.
For me…I’m a sauce pot kind of guy.

  1. Raise your sparge water to 185 degrees (we’ll save the debate for exact temps for another time).
    [*]Vorlauf your first few quarts of runoff like normal. (I advise a very slow vorlauf to prevent grain bed suction and stuck sparges)
    [*]When you’re ready…begin draining the wort very slowly into your kettle. (My valve is usually opened about 25%)
    [*]Immediately begin ladling in hot water to the top of your mash…careful not to disturb the bed of grains below the waters surface.
    [*]I usually will lay the pot into the water and then gently tip it to “fold” the water in rather than pour it.
    [*]Continue to ladle in your sparge water at the same rate it is flowing out. (You are now fly sparging).
    [*]If you need to pause to refill you hot liquor tank….simply close your valve until you are ready to resume.

A trick I like to employ is that once the kettle is filled up to my post boil level…I draw a sample…cool it and take a gravity reading. Then I continue to fill the kettle. This gives me a good reading about how aggressive I’m going to need to be with my preboil volume to hit my target OG.

Since you can’t be exact with how much runoff you’re going to have…once I get to my preboil level, I’ll drop the drain hose into a separate bucket to catch the excess. In theory, if my rinse has been effective, this excess should have little to no sugar value and can be discarded.

This process is a bit longer than a standard batch sparge. But it is substantially quicker than a full fly sparge.

A few notes:

  • Since your grain bed essentially resting longer with this method…you’ll want to adjust your rest times accordingly. My first few beers with this method were bigger than I anticipated…but the longer rest time meant they attenuated lower as well.
  • The slower you are in this process, the better your efficiency.
  • For round coolers, keeping your manifold or other device in the center of the grain bed will prevent water from finding the course of least resistance (the cooler wall), which will lower your efficiency.
  • Remember that the point here is that the clean hot water on top…is pushing down on the denser sugar water below and “plunging” it out the bottom.
Anyway. You don’t need to buy any equipment to give it a try. See if it helps your Brewhouse.

The sketch below is my terrible attempt to illustrate the effect of a hybrid fly sparge.

HybridFlySparge.jpg

Here's my "bucket" in action:

 
Last edited by a moderator:
BM do you have a false bottom in your cooler/tun or is it a braid? I think I'd get too much channeling to make this effective with the braid I have, but I have not tried it yet.

The nice part of this is that it will basically eliminate losses to dead space in your tun.
 
BM do you have a false bottom in your cooler/tun or is it a braid? I think I'd get too much channeling to make this effective with the braid I have, but I have not tried it yet.

The nice part of this is that it will basically eliminate losses to dead space in your tun.

I use a manifold in the center. If you drain slowly enough, channeling should not be an issue. You have to think of the water as soaking its way to the bottom...not flowing.

Another thing to point out...is that the use of rice hulls helps because they keep the grain bed fluffier, less compact and therefore more "porous".
 
ok, yeah i know the size of bag that they usually sell and it weighs nothing. so thats about one "bag" by my LHBS standards. thanks.
 
If it works for you, awesome. I just have one beef with it. The name.

If the method varies from fly sparging simply by the way the water is delivered, I don't know how it's just not called fly sparging. Just because more traditional fly sparging uses rotating arms to distribute the delivery of the sparge doesn't mean alternative methods make it not fit the name. Help me understand.

I'd like to call it a manual, expedited fly sparge. It has nothing to do with batch sparging.
 
If it works for you, awesome. I just have one beef with it. The name.

If the method varies from fly sparging simply by the way the water is delivered, I don't know how it's just not called fly sparging. Just because more traditional fly sparging uses rotating arms to distribute the delivery of the sparge doesn't mean alternative methods make it not fit the name. Help me understand.

I'd like to call it a manual, expedited fly sparge. It has nothing to do with batch sparging.

Whatever. I'm just following along the lines of the BYO article.

I'll call it sauce pot fly sparging if it pleases. :D
 
Though a hybrid approach may be somewhat less efficient than using a sparge arm…it is also much quicker. Hybrid Fly sparging is a nice compromise between the simplicity of batch sparging and the extreme efficiency of fly sparging.

Can you explain this? Unless the rate of delivery through the sparge arm is the limiting factor, I can't see how a manual delivery system would result in a faster sparge. In my case, the sparge arm is able to deliver water faster than I can drain through the false bottom. :confused:

-a.
 
Can you explain this? Unless the rate of delivery through the sparge arm is the limiting factor, I can't see how a manual delivery system would result in a faster sparge. In my case, the sparge arm is able to deliver water faster than I can drain through the false bottom. :confused:

-a.

I can't speak from experience, but I've heard of some fly sparge setups taking 45 minutes to an hour + to deliver sufficient sparge water to get pre-boil volumes.
 
I think the slower fly sparge is by choice, not by design. The theory goes that the longer you take, the better extraction, so you'd choke down the input/output so that it takes 45 minutes for 6 gallons and 1.5 hours for 12 gallons (or so).
 
yeah bobby_m is correct. I only fly sparge and have done it in a half hour but my efficiency sucked. If take ~45 min to sparge I can get 80 - 85 %.
 
I have been doing this modified fly sparge for the last 8 batches and I love it. The grain is covered all the time and the pressure is constant on the grain bed up until the last 2 gallons that come out of the mash tun. I use a false bottom and recirculate before I begin to collect. I see no need for rice hulls for a false bottom and I keep the water 1 to 2 inches above the grain. I really get a good and constant efficiency too using 180F sparge water. The trick is to only drain just under 1 quart per minute for a 10 to 12 gallon batch which would be 14 gallons preboil volume which takes about an hour. Your milage may vary. Biermuncher would not do this if it did not work well, so try it.
 
[*]I usually will lay the pot into the water and then gently tip it to “fold” the water in rather than pour it.

small tip: put small plate or saucer on top of the grain bed and pour sparge water on it, this way you won't disturb the grain bed even if you pour a bit faster.
 
I agree with Bobby_M, I don't see any difference in this method and my method. I pump from my HLT over to my MLT and use a ball valve to control the flow of sparge water onto the grain bed. I always keep a couple inches above the bed, I match my flow going out to the kettle, Usually takes a good 50-60 min. brewhouse efficiency is 87%. I call it Fly Sparging!
 
Isn't all of this in How To Brew? My first Partial Mash ever was using this technique, including the small plate thing. And I was doing it a couple months back when my HLT was out of commission for a few brews. I seem to get near 80% with this method, or with my sparge arm.

Seems to me like it is pretty much just fly sparging with a "man"ual arm (or "woman"ual) instead of a mechanical arm. Why does it not take as long, if the slower you go the better efficiency, seems like you would still want it to take about 45 minutes or so?
 
Great timing on the post. I read this in the BYO but hadn't thought to try it. I'm about to do my Xmas brew (OG 1.090) and was terrified my eff. would suck wind after calculating my teenie weenie batch sparge infusions. My eff. is usually 75-80% but this technique may get me more than the 65% I planned for, so I'll give it a whirl. Worst thing that could happen is .. :drunk: :D
 
I agree with Bobby_M, I don't see any difference in this method and my method. I pump from my HLT over to my MLT and use a ball valve to control the flow of sparge water onto the grain bed. ...

The target audience wasn't fly spargers. Of course this sounds obviously familiar to someone who fly sparges, or the uber experienced batch sparger.

It was targeted at newer batch sparging folks who thought the only way to improve efficiency was to convert to fly sparging...and to convert to fly sparging you needed to invest in special fly sparge equipment like sparge arms and whirligigs.

Maybe this belongs in the beginner section where there's less of a "duh" factor...:rolleyes:
 
Damn this works! I usually do a split batch sparge of equal amounts. This time I drained mashtun after 60 minutes, poured in my first sparge(2.67gallons), vorlaufed, Then started slowly releasing into pot. When water was about 1/2 over top of the grains I started slowly pouring second sparge(2.67gallons). When pot was full my preboil was 1.060, when it was supposed to be 1.049! Wow! Now I am usually 2 points above pre-boil gravity, but this was a BIG jump, and it was faster than my usual method. I added 2 quarts of water to boil, that's all I had left of my spring water. When all was said and done, my OG was supposed to be 1.067, it came out 1.072. My efficiency went from 75%+ to well over 80%.
Fricking awesome, especially considering it saved me at least 10 minutes. The muncher rules. :mug:
 
Wildwest -- glad to hear this worked out so well for you! I have been toying with the idea of fly sparging again (just for the fun of it to see how I do), but perhaps this is a good compromise since I am always too impatient to spend the extra time doing a full fly sparge.

One question for you, however -- how is it that this method was QUICKER for you than a typical batch sparge? Even doing two sparge infusions shouldn't take very long. Are you resting between sparges or something? For me, two sparges would take about 15 mins tops, but doing a 'partial' continuous sparge like this would definitely take me longer (assuming an equal volume of sparge water). Just curious about your method and where you saved your 10 mins.
 
Wildwest -- glad to hear this worked out so well for you! I have been toying with the idea of fly sparging again (just for the fun of it to see how I do), but perhaps this is a good compromise since I am always too impatient to spend the extra time doing a full fly sparge.

One question for you, however -- how is it that this method was QUICKER for you than a typical batch sparge? Even doing two sparge infusions shouldn't take very long. Are you resting between sparges or something? For me, two sparges would take about 15 mins tops, but doing a 'partial' continuous sparge like this would definitely take me longer (assuming an equal volume of sparge water). Just curious about your method and where you saved your 10 mins.

No resting, I saved the time by not having to dump in the last sparge, stir it up, then vorlauf. I usually have to run almost a gallon off to get all the junk out.(2 2quart varlouf's). Instead I just slowly poured in the last sparge (I use a pan with a bunch of small holes drilled in it) and let it run through. It only took 3 or 4 minutes.
 
No resting, I saved the time by not having to dump in the last sparge, stir it up, then vorlauf. I usually have to run almost a gallon off to get all the junk out.(2 2quart varlouf's). Instead I just slowly poured in the last sparge (I use a pan with a bunch of small holes drilled in it) and let it run through. It only took 3 or 4 minutes.

Interesting, thanks. I am intrigued that a 3 minute sparge is all it took to see such a big increase in efficiency. It isn't going to save me much time though, unfortunately, because I hardly have to vorlauf at all to clear my runnings with my SS braid. But I am going to play around with this idea nevertheless.
 
OK I did my Christmas barleywine yesterday... planned for 70% mash/lauter efficiency since I typically get 78-82% efficiency with normal gravity beers (yesterday I had 16# of grain in the tun). I used WildWest's method... I did a decoction mashout, ran off all the first runnings, collected about 2.75 gallons first runnings leaving 4.25 gallons for sparge to make a 7gal boil volume. I dumped in 2 gallons of sparge water, vorlaufed, and ran off about 1 quart per minute keeping the grainbed covered and in the mid 160s until I had 7 gallons. After collecting the wort I transferred to the kettle and started heating.. measured the pre-boil gravity and calculated I got 82% efficiency!! :rockin: After the boil, I collected 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and left .5 gallons in the pot for trub, 83% mash/lauter efficiency!! My best ever, on a freakin' barleywine!! :ban:

This method wasn't any harder than a double batch sparge, and didn't take any longer since the long pole in the tent is heating the sparge water... I'll be trying it again on my next batch. I'm really curious how I'll do with a normal gravity beer. OR, maybe I'll just say screw it and do a Belgian Golden Strong Ale at 1.080 instead of what I was planning, and repeat my awesome efficiency. :)
 
OK I did my Christmas barleywine yesterday... planned for 70% mash/lauter efficiency since I typically get 78-82% efficiency with normal gravity beers (yesterday I had 16# of grain in the tun). I used WildWest's method... I did a decoction mashout, ran off all the first runnings, collected about 2.75 gallons first runnings leaving 4.25 gallons for sparge to make a 7gal boil volume. I dumped in 2 gallons of sparge water, vorlaufed, and ran off about 1 quart per minute keeping the grainbed covered and in the mid 160s until I had 7 gallons. After collecting the wort I transferred to the kettle and started heating.. measured the pre-boil gravity and calculated I got 82% efficiency!! :rockin: After the boil, I collected 5.5 gallons in the fermenter and left .5 gallons in the pot for trub, 83% mash/lauter efficiency!! My best ever, on a freakin' barleywine!! :ban:

This method wasn't any harder than a double batch sparge, and didn't take any longer since the long pole in the tent is heating the sparge water... I'll be trying it again on my next batch. I'm really curious how I'll do with a normal gravity beer. OR, maybe I'll just say screw it and do a Belgian Golden Strong Ale at 1.080 instead of what I was planning, and repeat my awesome efficiency. :)
You beat me to it! I was going to try this on my next batch.

I was pretty sure that this technique would work especially well for high gravity brews, but your results clearly demonstrate it. Cool stuff. I gotta try this soon, too.
 
Man oh man... another "I screwed up my efficiency" post ...






... I got 86% efficiency on my tripel before adding the sugar (OG 1.090) yesterday, again with this method. I was shooting for 1.085 or so and ended up with extra wort into the fermenter. What a bummer. I guess I'll just have to send my extras to BierMuncher. :D :ban: :tank:
 
Nice thread BM. I was always a little intimidated by sparging. I'm a visual learner, and your diagram made sense to me. I'm about to make the jump to AG, I'm just trying to tie up all the loose ends and make sure that I completely understand everything.

A couple questions...

-A sparge arm or similar apparatus is just a method to to "fold" in(or rather, ON) the sparge water in a manner that causes the least amount of splashing and mixing with the wort....correct? You want it to be like two different layers of liquid....concentrated wort on bottom, and water on top (like oil on water) pushing down slowly on the wort. The slower, the better. Am I right?

-I didn't really understand your statement:
A trick I like to employ is that once the kettle is filled up to my post boil level…I draw a sample…cool it and take a gravity reading. Then I continue to fill the kettle. This gives me a good reading about how aggressive I’m going to need to be with my preboil volume to hit my target OG.
Can you elaborate on this for me?

If your postboil amount (how much wort you want to end up in the fermenter) is running lean, you do a little math and run the appropriate amount of water through the grain bed to give you more initial preboil wort. You crunch the numbers and figure out the boil off rate and what you'll potentially end up with in the end? Now I'm confusing myself....
If it's rich you'll water it down to get to your target concentration?
 
...concentrated wort on bottom, and water on top (like oil on water) pushing down slowly on the wort. The slower, the better. Am I right?

Right. You nailed it.

-I didn't really understand your statement:

IT was kind of confusing. This is not a necessary step. I'm going to sparge to my designated preboil volume no matter what. I just like to measure the gravity as the kettle fills, to get an idea of how close I'm coming to my targets. This is much more useful for low-med gravity beers, since high gravity beers (1.065 +) require higher preboil volumes.

If my target OG is 1.045, I draw a sample from the kettle as it fills...right when it hits my post boil marker. If the wort going in reads 1.043 then I know I'm golden, since I still have 2+ gallons of wort left to add. If my gravity is 1.035, I know I've got some challenges and may adjust my sparge, or maybe my hops additions, knowing I'm not likely to gain that extra 10 points from the last 2 gallons of runnings.
 
certainly sounds like fly sparging to me...nothing hybrid about it... just a different way of getting hot water into your mash tun

I've been doing fly sparging this way since I began AG brewing for lack of a three tier setup or a pump (I refer to it as my two tier setup :D ) This may also be better known as a poor-boy method


I feel like an elitist now knowing I'm using a "hybrid" method :cross:
 
certainly sounds like fly sparging to me...nothing hybrid about it... just a different way of getting hot water into your mash tun

Well if you see what WildWest and I did in this thread, we did a true hybrid, running off the first runnings and doing a big infusion before running off. It's quicker than straight fly sparging since you dump the first runnings in a hurry, and allows you to achieve mashout quickly without a special mashout infusion.
 
Well if you see what WildWest and I did in this thread, we did a true hybrid, running off the first runnings and doing a big infusion before running off. It's quicker than straight fly sparging since you dump the first runnings in a hurry, and allows you to achieve mashout quickly without a special mashout infusion.


uhhhh Ok I got lost somewhere on that part first time through reading the thread

I understand now :rockin:

I'm going to be brewing a heavy stout soon once I keg the batch i have going now ...sounds like an ideal beer to test this technique out on
 
Fly Sparging – Relies on a “squeegee” method of washing the sugar out of the grain bed. The grain bed may be stirred once just before sparging begins. Then the wort is drained very slowly and hot water is continually added to the top of the tun to maintain 2-3 inches of liquid over the grain bed. This hot clean water slowly pushes the sugar water down and out through the drain valve. By not stirring the grains, you are not re-suspending sugars in the grain bed and the rinse is (in theory) more complete.

Do you recommend stirring the grain bed before the vorlauf?
 
I have used this system for a couple of years and find that by adding a pie tin on an arm over my grains I can pour suacepans without channeling the grain bed. When you are doing it right, the top of the grain bed looks like a sandy beach...no pumps, no problem
 
When I converted to this simple fly sparge method I picked up 8 points in efficiency. No extra equipment needed…just a change in the method for adding / draining wort from the mash tun. This method was discussed in a recent issue of BYO, but these are my own random notes.

In both cases…the approach to the vorlauf is the same.

Difference between batch and fly.
Batch Sparging – Uses a method of stirring and rinsing the grains several times to wash out the sugars. We drain the wort. Add more water. Stir. Drain the wort and repeat until we get our desired pre-boil volume.

Fly Sparging – Relies on a “squeegee” method of washing the sugar out of the grain bed. The grain bed may be stirred once just before sparging begins. Then the wort is drained very slowly and hot water is continually added to the top of the tun to maintain 2-3 inches of liquid over the grain bed. This hot clean water slowly pushes the sugar water down and out through the drain valve. By not stirring the grains, you are not re-suspending sugars in the grain bed and the rinse is (in theory) more complete.

Fly sparging does not require sparge arms, drip rings or other apparatus to get the desired effect. Though a hybrid approach may be somewhat less efficient than using a sparge arm…it is also much quicker. Hybrid Fly sparging is a nice compromise between the simplicity of batch sparging and the extreme efficiency of fly sparging.

Technique:

If you use a march pump to deliver your sparge water…you can adapt your system to this technique very easily.
For me…I’m a sauce pot kind of guy.

  1. Raise your sparge water to 185 degrees (we’ll save the debate for exact temps for another time).
    [*]Vorlauf your first few quarts of runoff like normal. (I advise a very slow vorlauf to prevent grain bed suction and stuck sparges)
    [*]When you’re ready…begin draining the wort very slowly into your kettle. (My valve is usually opened about 25%)
    [*]Immediately begin ladling in hot water to the top of your mash…careful not to disturb the bed of grains below the waters surface.
    [*]I usually will lay the pot into the water and then gently tip it to “fold” the water in rather than pour it.
    [*]Continue to ladle in your sparge water at the same rate it is flowing out. (You are now fly sparging).
    [*]If you need to pause to refill you hot liquor tank….simply close your valve until you are ready to resume.

A trick I like to employ is that once the kettle is filled up to my post boil level…I draw a sample…cool it and take a gravity reading. Then I continue to fill the kettle. This gives me a good reading about how aggressive I’m going to need to be with my preboil volume to hit my target OG.

Since you can’t be exact with how much runoff you’re going to have…once I get to my preboil level, I’ll drop the drain hose into a separate bucket to catch the excess. In theory, if my rinse has been effective, this excess should have little to no sugar value and can be discarded.

This process is a bit longer than a standard batch sparge. But it is substantially quicker than a full fly sparge.

A few notes:

  • Since your grain bed essentially resting longer with this method…you’ll want to adjust your rest times accordingly. My first few beers with this method were bigger than I anticipated…but the longer rest time meant they attenuated lower as well.
  • The slower you are in this process, the better your efficiency.
  • For round coolers, keeping your manifold or other device in the center of the grain bed will prevent water from finding the course of least resistance (the cooler wall), which will lower your efficiency.
  • Remember that the point here is that the clean hot water on top…is pushing down on the denser sugar water below and “plunging” it out the bottom.
Anyway. You don’t need to buy any equipment to give it a try. See if it helps your Brewhouse.

The sketch below is my terrible attempt to illustrate the effect of a hybrid fly sparge.

View attachment 7128

So no 1st runnings, just open the valve and drain until about 2 inches above grain bed, then start the sparge?
 
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