So what does oxidation taste like?

I think I heard it tastes like wet cardboard? That's kind of what this tastes like.

Also, does it get worse with time?

I'm drinking my brown ale (which I was sure got oxidized because of a leaky auto-siphon) and it tastes funky.

Weird thing is, I tasted it at 1 week, and it was good. Again, at exactly 2 weeks, and even better.
Then, literally the next day I tried one more and I tasted it (the cardboard). Now, two days later and it's a little worse.

I got 2 cases of this stuff....

Yep...sorry.

Add this site to your favorites:

http://www.winning-homebrew.com/off-flavors.html

MMMM! Wet cardboard is good with some salt from what I've heard!LOL! On a serious note, try to get something from this expirence-no oxygen=no wet cardboard. I've had a few turn out similar to yours.

Yeah, I know that oxygen = no good. Can't really help it though when your auto-siphon starts sucking air.

Oh well...

I had a batch do that a while back. At 2 weeks great beers. At 3 weeks, YUCK! They were in half liter PET bottles so I tasted a few and all were that way. I popped the tops and swirled them until the foam reached the top and closed them back up. Within a day or two the funky taste disappeared.

I would try that before dumping them. I do not know why it worked, but it worked for my brew.

BTW: The beers were kept in the fridge the whole time.

You know how old chips or crackers taste stale? Not just in texture but also they just have a 'flat' flavor to them?

I've had oxidation start out like that as it progressed to the 'wet cardboard' kind of taste.

A little zip-tie can help keep the hose from allowing air to come in at the top of the racking cane. if you had air in the auto-siphon bottom, you need to make sure its nice and wet going in, and usually a single forceful pump will prevent air pockets from getting formed initially.

I do find that using an auto-siphon its handy to have two people involved...one to hold the tubing and one to run the auto-siphon until its started and 'safe'.

I sampled my last stir plate starter and thought it tasted of vinegar. I'm assuming it was massive oxidation that made it taste that way.. Dunno though..

Hmmm the off flavors site points to bacterial infection for vinegar, but I fermented out a beer with that yeast and it tastes great, no off flavors at all.. hmm...

I'd have to think the easiest way to taste oxidation would be to leave a glass of beer in open air for a number of hours and take a taste. Assuming there is enough air in the fridge it would keep it similar to a cold fresh sample, but you could also leave it out for hours or overnight. Ever smelled a beer glass from the previous day, spilled beer or old beer cans? Yuck! Not sure if there is more going on than oxidation. Maybe try stirring up a glass of beer considerably.

I think I have an APA that did this, but took about three months. just tastes kinda stale and the hops really died. It's kegged, but i think that has to be what it is. I guess we just have to be anal about it and purge everything with CO2

In my experience an auto siphon getting bubbles won't cause any troubles. You need to be careful when racking to not splash. Get that outlet tube all the way to the bottom, no splashing. If you're using secondary, consider not using a secondary or maybe flushing the fermenter with CO2 before racking. If you're kegging, flush the kegs with CO2 before filling.

Also in my experience as a judge years ago (and with local homebrewers now), the single most common problem with beers is oxidation. I'm hyper sensitive to it. Some people don't notice it or do notice it but don't know what it is. If you can be sure that this *is* oxidation you have, try to take the pint glass half full way of viewing it, take it as a lesson and clean up your technique.

Tare off a small piece of cardboard and suck on it for a few minutes. Then you will know what oxidation is like.

One of the reasons I like using glass carboys for fermenting is because they are so easy to clean. I make sure I clean them right away after use, then I just have to sanitize and rinse before then next time. Also, It is so easy to purge them and put a cap on it to keep air and contaminants out, and this process gives me more peace of mind with the outcome. I cringe every time I see a new thread about someone with contaminated beer, ewwwww! It is very sad, all that time, energy, and money wasted. Still, it is a reality check and makes me pay even more attention to my cleaning habits. Still, I am amazed when a new batch comes out nice and fresh, such a nice feeling. I guess we all have that feeling that it may not work out, but that makes it that much more gratifying when it does.

When I transfer to my keg, I fill the tank with CO2, then open the lid and place a sheet of aluminum foil over the top till I siphon, then just poke a hole in the foil and insert the siphon tube. No air can get in while the keg is filling becasue the co2 is being displace during this time. I keep the lid in a bowl of Iodophor and water until I recap the keg. After that, I connect the CO2 gas line to the keg and purge again, pressurize and crash cool while carbonating, works great!

Also, I like to put some containers of ice in the kegerator to help speed up the cold crash, which gets it down to the 35 to 40 degree range in less than 24 hrs.

Shepherd5 said:

…I guess we all have that feeling that it may not work out, but that makes it that much more gratifying when it does.
…

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I guess I am an odd ball then. Sure I clean everything with Star-San, but I NEVER worry about it. I do a quick dip in the solution of my tools, fill the carboys, shake, and then dump the liquid back into the bowl. Then get to work brewing.

Not to get too far off topic, but… There are scientific studies showing that positive thinking works. Of course by simple logic, negative thinking works too. RDWHAHB is a good rule to live by. Do your best and let the yeast do their job. Those little buggers can wipe out MOST infections before they can take hold.

BTW Shepherd, I am in NO way criticizing your steps. On the contrary, keeping O2 away from the brew is very wise. All it takes is a headroom full of O2 and a tipped over keg to mess things up. Not to mention the pressure pushing the O2 into the beer.

I think my oxidation was from letting too much air mix in when I started the auto-siphon I use with a wand to bottle. I try to do a slow careful pour from the carboy down the side of the bottle bucket which is setting in a small sink at an angle. Thankfully, I do have a spigot I bought to install on the bucket. I guess I need to go ahead and do that and loose the auto-siphon before my next bottling.

Beer_Guy said:

I think my oxidation was from letting too much air mix in when I started the auto-siphon I use with a wand to bottle. I try to do a slow careful pour from the carboy down the side of the bottle bucket which is setting in a small sink at an angle...

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Another source of introducing oxygen into your brew is at racking time.

You should cut off the flow of the brew at the end of the syphon before the air from the primary gets sucked into the carboy.

Good point. Even when bottling I have been known to suck it dry.

Oh…wait…what… no, I mean the siphon sucks the bucket dry.

I'm almost positive it was the auto-siphon.

I've made dozens of batches of beer over the course of about 13 years. 1st time I ever got this flavor, and 1st time I ever saw the auto-siphon suck so much air. It was literally about 50% beer and 50% air bubbles going into the bottling bucket. I'm usually very careful about not introducing any oxygen.

So, I was half expecting it. But when I tasted it at first, it was fine. Even had my Dad over last Sunday and we both were commenting how good it was. Then next night, Bam! Cardboard. Weird.

dunnright00 said:

I'm almost positive it was the auto-siphon.

I've made dozens of batches of beer over the course of about 13 years. 1st time I ever got this flavor, and 1st time I ever saw the auto-siphon suck so much air. It was literally about 50% beer and 50% air bubbles going into the bottling bucket. I'm usually very careful about not introducing any oxygen.

So, I was half expecting it. But when I tasted it at first, it was fine. Even had my Dad over last Sunday and we both were commenting how good it was. Then next night, Bam! Cardboard. Weird.

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Aw well then, that must be it. I thought you meant the usual thing I hear on here about people worrying about those few bubbles that you usually see with an auto siphon. Maybe the seal on yours isn't good anymore and it's time for a new one.

Yeah, got a new one. Works great. Not sure if it was the seal of the inner tube, or the shape of the outer tube. Now that I have a new one, I'll do some experiments to see which it is, then I'll have a spare part of the one that works.

Had another brown ale tonight. Not really as bad as I thought, but I won't be giving these out as gifts. Just have to start drinkin'!

Yeah, drink 'em fast before it gets worse!

I have been wanting to learn to spot oxidation flavors as well. Next time I bottle I'm going to leave a few bottles uncapped until I'm done, remove the tubing from the racking cane, attach a sterile filter, and start blowing bubbles. I think that ought to do the trick after a few weeks

That should do it.

You'll see why I said to suck on a piece of cardboard. It is a taste you will NOT forget.

I was thinking someone should throw a stir bar in a glass of beer and put it on a stir plate uncovered

Getting enough air in it is esay. You just have to wait 2-3weeks for it to show up. If I wanted to see it AGAIN, i would do at least 4 bottles and wait at least 3 weeks before opening the first one.

Kind of what I was thinking. You would need to mimic oxygen exposure at packaging. I don't think the effects would show up right away.