Berliner Weisse Methods

There seems to be a lot of different ways to make a Berliner Weisse. I have a lacto starter going (1C crushed grain and 1C 100F water) and plan on brewing next weekend if the starter comes out OK. Im still trying to decide how I should pitch everything. Here are all of the options I have found.

1) Pitch Lacto First
Pros: More sourness more quickly
Cons: Can't oxygenate wort for yeast, pitching yeast into a low pH environment

2) Pitch at the same time
Pros: Most simple
Cons: Oxygen might upset the lacto

3) Pitch Lacto after yeast
Pros: Yeast will consume oxygen and get a healthy start
Cons: Might take a while to sour if at all

4) Pitch Lacto and yeast in seperate carboys, blend later
Pros: Each get pitched into an ideal environment
Cons: ???

Im cleaning toward option 4. Pitch the lacto at about 100F with no oxygen, maybe even purge the carboy with CO2 if I can borrow some. Pitch the yeast with oxygen at normal temps. After temps have stabilized blend the two.

Thoughts?

easiest way i've heard to do this, though in my mind it only really works for kegging since it needs to be consumed quickly, is to not boil the wort and simply add hops to the mash. hops will keep other nasty bugs out, and the lacto that was originally on the grain will slowly become active again while the yeast is fermenting. when it's at the desired ph keg it up and drink

I've done #1 twice, some (but very little) sourness. Pitched sacc 1-2 days after lacto. Lacto was raging when sacc was pitched.

I did #1 with a big lacto starter that I made the same way you did and ended up with a beer so sour I can barely drink it. It didn't carb in the bottles, so I poured them into a keg and it is carbing up now. I'm going to make a 100% wheat beer and blend it to taste.

Im pretty set on a short boil so I at least have some control over which bugs get in there. I will likely mash hop for a few IBUs

passedpawn and Airbonreguy, where did you get your lacto? Also, how big of a starter did you make and how long did you let it go?

andymi86 said:

Im pretty set on a short boil so I at least have some control over which bugs get in there. I will likely mash hop for a few IBUs

passedpawn and Airbonreguy, where did you get your lacto? Also, how big of a starter did you make and how long did you let it go?

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I used wyeast lacto, don't remember the number, my LHBS had it in stock. No starter IIRC. Just dumpola. It was raging in 24 hours. Frankly, I was a little shocked how hard it was fermenting and I got the sacc in there. BTW, I did a 15 minute boil. I let that ferment for about 4 months, then bottled.

Second batch I put in the bottle in about 10 days. That one came out just as good, maybe a little bit more sour. I conditioned the bottles in about 95F days outside (Florida).

Good Luck.

Cool thanks! I've heard the wyeast lacto is a bit weak so maybe that's why it never got too sour?

I did the same as you: homemade starter. I made a low gravity wort, cooled it, and tossed in a handful of grain. I kept it just under 100ºf using an aquarium heater.

For now I have just grain and water together. Basically following Morkins advice from this thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f72/alferman-imperial-berliner-weisse-255777/

I wonder if making a starter from this would be better than just pitching it right in?

Good call on keeping it warm. I put it in my fermentation chamber and cranked the heat up. Hopefully it will stay 90-100F.

This is the route I take...

I think it's critical with this style to make a lacto-only starter in advance. You simply can't get a predictable level of sourness without doing that. Make a one liter starter (no yeast, just lacto) and keep it as close to 100 degrees and let it go for at least 24 hours before you brew your BerlinerWeisse. I wrap the flask with a heating pad to keep the bugs nice and cozy. I use the no- boil method, mash hop and then I pitch the entire starter into warm wort (@100 degrees) and let it naturally cool down overnight in a water bath. I add some cooI water and ice to the water bath the next morning and pitch the yeast once the wort is in the 65-68 degree range and let it go. The fermentation is usually complete within 36 hours. Follow this method and you'll end up with puckering sourness that is reliable and predictable.

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Waylit said:

This is the route I take...

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Can you go into a little more detail regarding both your lacto starter and the sacc yeast if there is a starter at all?

Thanks

Add lacto and yeast at a 3:1 ratio to start. To start for a batch I'll make a starter that is half dextrose and half malt extract to about 1.025 - 1.030 or so. You can go higher if you would like, 1.030-35 is fine also. I'll then put on my stirplate overnight (16h or so) at 98F .

Decant and add a small amount of starter (malt extract only this time) and let it go for a bit on the stir plate at room temp before you pitch. This way you'l have plenty of lacto AND they will be ready for beer. I pitch the entire starter into warm wort (@98 degrees) and let it naturally cool down overnight to 65-68 degree range before pitching a vial German Ale yeast. (no starter)

Do you get your lacto from wyeast or do you harvest it yourself? I like a nice and sour berliner wiesse.

Wyeast. I also add more lacto at bottling.

method 4 is the best from my experiences. split the batch and ferment 3 gallons with something like s05 and pitch some grains into the other 2 gallons and let the lacto go to town for a few days. Then blend the 2 parts back together and let sit for a week or whatever and bottle.