Berliner Weiss, many ways

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MidTNJasonF said:
My wife describes it as baby vomit. She will not touch it. I personally think that is harsh and I say it is more sour wet farm animal mixed with cooked canned corn.

Hahaha, i know the smell, boil and light hop addition cures all
 
Did not cure this one. 20 minute boil an ounce of german hops. It got worse after the boil and worse still after fermentation.

I would guess other bacteria than Lacto entered the mash.. and created some nasty stuff other than lactic acid...
 
So I plan on doing a sour wort for an extract berlinerweisse. My plan is to throw some grain into wort and keep it hot until it sours to my taste (which will be pretty sour.) After that I will heat and then use WLP 644 to ferment. The brett should be able to withstand a highly acidic PH.
I asked a couple questions a couple pages back in this thread and got some helpful replies, but I still have more questions.

How do I determine the alcohol content of my beer? Is the lacto from base grain homo or hetero fermentative? This will determine whether or not I bring the wort to a full boil after souring. I've read that the density of lactic acid is much higher than alcohol. Won't that affect my hydrometer readings? If I could get some density numbers regarding sugar, alcohol, and lactic acid, that might help me to calculate everything. If someone could me more specific instructions, that would be even better.

I also have another question regarding fruit. First of all, how much fruit would everyone recommend to get a full flavor inside of a light beer like this? Right now, I am specifically considering berries, though I might try different kinds of fruit in the future. Also, has anyone tried the vintners harvest purees that Northern Brewer sells? They seem pretty convenient, but I would like more info on them.

Also, has anyone tried adding some hops at flameout or dry hopping with a berliner weisse? I feel like adding some fruity hops like citra or simcoe might be a good idea, but I'd love if someone could give input.
I've been trying to read up on everything I need to know before I decide exactly what I want to brew, but information on all of this is limited.
 
inflictor-of-grimness said:
So I plan on doing a sour wort for an extract berlinerweisse. My plan is to throw some grain into wort and keep it hot until it sours to my taste (which will be pretty sour.) After that I will heat and then use WLP 644 to ferment. The brett should be able to withstand a highly acidic PH.


I also have another question regarding fruit. First of all, how much fruit would everyone recommend to get a full flavor inside of a light beer like this? Right now, I am specifically considering berries, though I might try different kinds of fruit in the future. Also, has anyone tried the vintners harvest purees that Northern Brewer sells?

Also, has anyone tried adding some hops at flameout or dry hopping with a berliner weisse? I feel like adding some fruity hops like citra or simcoe might be a good idea, but I'd love if someone could give input.
I've been trying to read up on everything I need to know before I decide exactly what I want to brew, but information on all of this is limited.

I did exactly what you are planning. Here was my recipe. "5a"
3lb pale LME
2lb wheat LME
1lb pils LME
.5 crystal 30 .5 belg pils steeping
2oz cascade
1007 German ale yeast

48 hour sour with .5lb 2row inoculation

20 minute boil 1.5 oz hops at 20 mins .5 at 5mins

Pitched yeast, poured out 1 gallon into my mini ferm onto 2 cups pasteurized mixed berries just to try it.

OG 1.04

Just tasted both and took first grav readings this morning and holy deliciousness. Best beer I've made yet. The berry one is spot on and so is the standard. Hops added just the right amount of bitterness and aroma to balance the sweet and sourness. Finished dry and light body, effervescent look matching the style.

I'm damn proud of this first go around!

FG 1.01
 
I tasted my 5a after one week of US-05 fermentation. It has a nice sour bite to it and I quite like it. Gonna let it sit for another week in secondary to clear it up a bit.
 
I tasted my 5a after one week of US-05 fermentation. It has a nice sour bite to it and I quite like it. Gonna let it sit for another week in secondary to clear it up a bit.

It's a waste of time. Even at 35* in a keg for several months, a Berlinner Weisse will still be cloudy.
 
Hey quick question.. Let's say I have a tight schedule and can't brew when the sourness of the sour mash is at my taste, would cold stop the lacto? If I bring the vessel down in my cold chamber, in the 50s?
 
Getting it significantly out of the temperature range would stop the lacto, either up or down. I would bring it up to pasturization temperature just to be sure that it won't do any other souring.
 
Getting it significantly out of the temperature range would stop the lacto, either up or down. I would bring it up to pasturization temperature just to be sure that it won't do any other souring.

Makes sens...

Does anyone ever consider doing the sour mash in a carboy?

Drain, sparge, then transfer the wort to a sanitized carboy, then pitch lacto and put an airlock. It would be air sealed, and pretty soon full of CO2. Then transfer it again to boil kettle when it's done?

You'd say, why don't just pitch the lacto first, then yeast (after boil)? Well, I'm afraid to lacto would continue to eat unfermentable sugar after fermentation, and that's not what I want on my project. It's gonna be a Raspberry wheat beer around 4-5%. I would just want to add a little acidity to it, and make it ferment really quick.
 
I do my sour mash in the mash tun since it is a lot more insulated than a carboy would be. I dont think that lacto create CO2 either, otherwise you would have CO2 in the mash tun as well.
 
I do my sour mash in the mash tun since it is a lot more insulated than a carboy would be. I dont think that lacto create CO2 either, otherwise you would have CO2 in the mash tun as well.

Well, you have CO2 in the mash tun.
 
I do my sour mash in the mash tun since it is a lot more insulated than a carboy would be. I dont think that lacto create CO2 either, otherwise you would have CO2 in the mash tun as well.

Lacto eats sugar producing byproducts of C02 and lactic acid.
 
I dont think the lacto eats any sugar during the length of a sour mash. I did a 36 hour one about 3 weeks ago and my brewhouse efficiency came out to be 85% which well overshot my expectations. If it ate any sugar, it was a tiny amount.
 
I dont think the lacto eats any sugar during the length of a sour mash. I did a 36 hour one about 3 weeks ago and my brewhouse efficiency came out to be 85% which well overshot my expectations. If it ate any sugar, it was a tiny amount.

7 days at room temp and lacto ate almost all of my fermentables. This beer is going to be 1% hopefully when I had planned on a ~4%
 
So what exactly do you think the lacto is doing, if its not eating sugar?

I don't know, I never had a chance to ask before I killed them all in the boil :cross:
I only say that because my brewhouse OGs have been as expected or better when doing a sour mash. If they ate a significant amount of sugar, my readings would have shown it.
 
I don't know, I never had a chance to ask before I killed them all in the boil :cross:
I only say that because my brewhouse OGs have been as expected or better when doing a sour mash. If they ate a significant amount of sugar, my readings would have shown it.

They do consume sugar, how much is probably the better question
 
These are homo-fermentation and hetero-fermentation strains of lactobacillus (sorry, I don't know the exact terms in english).

Some strains produce Lactic acid + CO2(homo), and some produce Lactic acid + Ethanol + CO2 (hetero).

Always from eating sugar, and no how else.

WLP677, which is lactobacillus delbrueckii does NOT create ethanol, for what I know.
 
I just popped the first bottle of a sour mashed Berliner today. I mashed for a whole week. Was only planning on four days, but life caught up with me. Fermented it with WLP036 Dussledorf Alt yeast.

Turned out fantastic. I've never had another example of the style, but it will be my lawnmower beer this summer for sure. Brightly acidic with a bready, wheaty finish that'll be perfect after a hot summer afternoon. And only 3%.
 
Where are you getting that info from?

The only information I have is second-hand. I just sent out an email to White labs for more info on this since they have absolutely nothing posted about this strain.
 
I'm going to be brewing up a raspberry berliner weiss this weekend using the sour wort method with White Labs lacto. I'm going to hold it at 110 from Friday evening until Sunday morning using a heat stick attached to a digital temperature controller in my boil kettle.

I'm going to make a session ipa the same day. Since the mash is already done for the first beer it should make for a quick double brew day.
 
I'm going to be brewing up a raspberry berliner weiss this weekend using the sour wort method with White Labs lacto. I'm going to hold it at 110 from Friday evening until Sunday morning using a heat stick attached to a digital temperature controller in my boil kettle.

I'm going to make a session ipa the same day. Since the mash is already done for the first beer it should make for a quick double brew day.

Seems like a good day..

..unless you spil sour mash juice in your cooled IPA wort :D
 
Seems like a good day..

..unless you spil sour mash juice in your cooled IPA wort :D

Haha that would be interesting, but by the time IPA wort is chilled the sour will already have been boiled, chilled and tucked away in my fermentation chamber.
 
Lacto don't produce co2 and dont eat sugar? We learn everyday...

They all consume sugar. Some produce CO2

These are homo-fermentation and hetero-fermentation strains of lactobacillus (sorry, I don't know the exact terms in english).

Some strains produce Lactic acid + CO2(homo), and some produce Lactic acid + Ethanol + CO2 (hetero).

You have the names right:

Homofermentive converts 1 sugar unit into 2 units of Lactic Acid and NO CO2.

heterofermentive converts 1 unit of sugar in to 1 unit of lactic acid + 1 unit of alcohol + 1 unit of CO2 (or something close to that).
 
I've asked a couple times already and no one has answered me, so I will ask again and see if anyone knows.

Is the lacto from a base grain used to make a sour wort homo or heterofermentive?
 
I've asked a couple times already and no one has answered me, so I will ask again and see if anyone knows.

Is the lacto from a base grain used to make a sour wort homo or heterofermentive?

Nobody knows. It's not even a pure lacto culture, there's most likely other stuff on the grain too. We just chuck it in an hope for the best. That is also the cause of a lot of this confusion.
 
Some produce co2? And some don't? They produce what? They do a magic transformation from sugar to acid or ethanol?
 
Tiroux said:
Some produce co2? And some don't? They produce what? They do a magic transformation from sugar to acid or ethanol?

Sorry, read too fast...

Really, sugar to 2 units of lactic acid?
Can I see the formula of that transformation, i'm curious..
 
Sorry, read too fast...

Really, sugar to 2 units of lactic acid?
Can I see the formula of that transformation, i'm curious..

I believe this is the pathway.

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