Man, I love Apfelwein

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iluvmysh said:
i definitely want the apfelwein to "hit its stride", but i don't want to get any off flavors for it being on the yeast cake too long as i've been advised by the manager of my LHBS.
For what its worth, if I were planning on waiting more than 3-4 months to bottle, I would probably rack it after 2-3 months.
 
Bottled my first batch following the original recipe. Bottled 12 bottles still and the remainder in beer bottles to carb.

Tasted some while bottling. All I can say is WOW! Already looking to get more dextrose to do my next batch.
 
Followed the original recipe exactly but mine has seemed to stall out at 1.008 after a month. Thoughts? Just let it go a little longer? Not much airlock activity at this point. Thanks in advance!
 
jjw5015 said:
Followed the original recipe exactly but mine has seemed to stall out at 1.008 after a month. Thoughts? Just let it go a little longer? Not much airlock activity at this point. Thanks in advance!

Which yeast you used? I used montrachet and after 5 weeks was at around .998-1.000
 
Followed the original recipe exactly but mine has seemed to stall out at 1.008 after a month. Thoughts? Just let it go a little longer? Not much airlock activity at this point. Thanks in advance!

What temperature is it at? Montrachet should chew through it fine, unless it is too cold. Get it up into the 70s and shake up the yeast a little and see if that gets things moving.
 
Thunder_Chicken said:
What temperature is it at? Montrachet should chew through it fine, unless it is too cold. Get it up into the 70s and shake up the yeast a little and see if that gets things moving.

It was at 65 for three weeks, but I moved it last week thinking that might be too cold. It's at 68 now, that's as high as I can get it right
 
Maybe you can try to degas it a bit. Too much dissolved CO2 in the wine can change the pH and make the yeast unhappy. You can make a wine whip out of a wire shirt hanger (sanitized, of course) and attaching it to a drill. You don't want to expose it to air, but you want to stir out the CO2 until it is nearly flat. You'll probably rouse up the yeast again doing this, all good.

Then let it ride for a few more weeks.

Though I think you would do better to get the wine up into the 70s by any means possible. The yeast may just want to sleep down in the 60s.
 
Followed the original recipe exactly but mine has seemed to stall out at 1.008 after a month. Thoughts? Just let it go a little longer? Not much airlock activity at this point. Thanks in advance!

Which yeast you used? I used montrachet and after 5 weeks was at around .998-1.000

i'm using montrachet and pitched on saturday evening. the only time i had airlock activity was @ 24-48hrs after pitching. i have zero airlock activity since then, but i can see the bubbling inside the bottle. how long do you guys normally have airlock activity for?
 
My first batch has been chilling out in the basement for 8 weeks now. Followed original recipe. Fermentation was slow but steady and lasted a couple of weeks. The carboy is crystal clear. I was thinking about waiting another 6 weeks before kegging it so that it would be ready around the New Year. But after reading so many posts, I may consider kegging it sooner.

So I guess my questions are, if I keg it now, can I just throw another batch on top of the existing yeast cake? I don't have any dextrose, can I use table sugar instead? How would it affect the flavor? Is 1 lb of sugar = 1 lb of dextrose? 1 gallon jugs of apple cider are on sale now (I saw a BOGO sale), anyone used apple cider instead of apple juice?

I guess I just want to take advantage of the yeast cake so I want to have a plan in place before I keg this batch.

Thanks!
 
iluvmysh said:
i'm using montrachet and pitched on saturday evening. the only time i had airlock activity was @ 24-48hrs after pitching. i have zero airlock activity since then, but i can see the bubbling inside the bottle. how long do you guys normally have airlock activity for?


I only had airlock activity for a few days. But like you said, I could see the bubbles in the carboy and that went on for at least 4 weeks.
 
iluvmysh said:
i'm using montrachet and pitched on saturday evening. the only time i had airlock activity was @ 24-48hrs after pitching. i have zero airlock activity since then, but i can see the bubbling inside the bottle. how long do you guys normally have airlock activity for?

Airlock activity continued for me for a few weeks. But dont worry about the airlock. If you see bublbling inside bottle the yeast is doing its work
 
i think airlock activity is slow/subsided because the temp, according to my $5 walmart digital thermometer is 69 degrees - which may be too cold for wild activity. might have to open up the windows this weekend for some warm air to get'er going.
 
thanks for that explanation. i'm still on my first batch of mr. beer, so i'm taking the experience from that and applying it to my other batches. from what people have been saying on the mr. beer thread is that it takes 2+ weeks for the beer to carb (using the table sugar in the bottle method). people have stated that even though the plastic bottles felt rigid due to inside pressure, when they cracked one open, the beer was still flat so it was suggested that even though the bottles felt pressurized, it didn't mean the beer was carbed; so let it carb for longer was what was prescribed.
i'm definitely not trying to argue with you, just trying to understand the science behind it and not screw up my own batch.

also, i've read conflicting reports of leaving it on the yeast cake may result in off flavors so putting it in a secondary is advised. what's your take?
Ok, so they opened the bottles before it was really ready. When I say full pressure, I mean full pressure. Take a bottle of unopened soda. That's how hard the bottle should be. You will have some pressure almost immediately. It seems like those people popped the bottles before they reached full pressure. It's something pretty much everybody does the first several times they bottle carb.

The good thing about apfelwein is that its good still or carbed so if you pop one open and it's not carbed up yet you can still enjoy it.
True that. If you don't mind drinking a bottle that may be a little young and undercarbed, then just pop one and try it. It's pretty good even when it's really young.

As for leaving it on the yeast cake, I've read a lot of conflicting things. My own experience has shown that when you do pick up a nasty "soy sauce" flavor it can happen any time after about six weeks. I think the reason so many people disagree here is that only about 20% of the people I've had taste a batch that's gotten that flavor have been able to taste it at all. I don't mean they were being polite, I mean they still couldn't taste it after I pointed it out.

I prefer to rack off the yeast once the brew, any brew, is either at FG or within 0.002 points of the estimated FG. Even if other people can't taste the "soy sauce" flavor, I can. I'd rather not have it in my brew.

i'm using montrachet and pitched on saturday evening. the only time i had airlock activity was @ 24-48hrs after pitching. i have zero airlock activity since then, but i can see the bubbling inside the bottle. how long do you guys normally have airlock activity for?
Usually, all this means is that one of your seals isn't perfect. Since you're probably done with high krausen, you aren't producing enough co2 pressure to cause the airlock to bubble. The co2 is leaking out of one of the seal since there is no water to provide resistance to the flow. This happens more in fermenting buckets then carboys, but it happens in both.

If you want to know if it's fermenting, take gravity readings a few days apart. If your gravity is dropping, it's fermenting.

...So I guess my questions are, if I keg it now, can I just throw another batch on top of the existing yeast cake? I don't have any dextrose, can I use table sugar instead? How would it affect the flavor? Is 1 lb of sugar = 1 lb of dextrose? 1 gallon jugs of apple cider are on sale now (I saw a BOGO sale), anyone used apple cider instead of apple juice?

I guess I just want to take advantage of the yeast cake so I want to have a plan in place before I keg this batch.

Thanks!
Yes you can. I wouldn't toss another batch on top of it after this one, but you can do that once.

You can use table sugar. Table sugar adds nothing in any direction to flavor. It increases the alcohol content only. It's a little more of an increase to the gravity then dextrose. If I remember correctly, dextrose is 42 gravity points per lb and table sugar (sucrose) is 46.

Apple cider is apple juice with the pulp left in. Usually apple juice has been treated with pectin enzyme to clear it. Cider usually hasn't been. It's also common for cider to have spices in it.

IMO, cider generally makes superior hard apple cider. If you want it to clear, you will need to add pectin enzyme. I prefer to not even try to clear it when it's been made with commercial cider. I would say that the flavor of cloudy hard apple cider made from commercial cider is more well rounded. Since commercial cider is mostly a seasonal item, I make hard apple cider with it in season. I can make apfelwein or apple juice based hard cider any time of year.
 
My first batch has been chilling out in the basement for 8 weeks now. Followed original recipe. Fermentation was slow but steady and lasted a couple of weeks. The carboy is crystal clear. I was thinking about waiting another 6 weeks before kegging it so that it would be ready around the New Year. But after reading so many posts, I may consider kegging it sooner.

So I guess my questions are, if I keg it now, can I just throw another batch on top of the existing yeast cake? I don't have any dextrose, can I use table sugar instead? How would it affect the flavor? Is 1 lb of sugar = 1 lb of dextrose? 1 gallon jugs of apple cider are on sale now (I saw a BOGO sale), anyone used apple cider instead of apple juice?

I guess I just want to take advantage of the yeast cake so I want to have a plan in place before I keg this batch.

Thanks!

I used 4 lbs of table sugar in mine (6.5 gal batch). I started out boiling it so it would dissolve and mix easier. Then I thought while I'm at it I might as well add 1 tsp of citric acid and convert the sucrose into glucose and fructose resulting in invert sugar. The yeasties can make this conversion all by themselves but I thought I would make it easier on them. They really seemed to like it and had a very vigorous fermentation.
 
It was at 65 for three weeks, but I moved it last week thinking that might be too cold. It's at 68 now, that's as high as I can get it right


I wrapped my carboy in r16 or r15 insulation bought at Home Depot and wrapped a big strap around it. Kept the temp up real nice! It had stopped bubbling because it was out in the garage (SoCal in the summer garage stays warm most of the night) but I noticed it stopped bubbling too soon. That fix brought it back to life! Hope that helps.
 
I used 4 lbs of table sugar in mine (6.5 gal batch). I started out boiling it so it would dissolve and mix easier. Then I thought while I'm at it I might as well add 1 tsp of citric acid and convert the sucrose into glucose and fructose resulting in invert sugar. The yeasties can make this conversion all by themselves but I thought I would make it easier on them. They really seemed to like it and had a very vigorous fermentation.

What did you boil the sugar in? How much apple juice did you mix in? When did you mix the citric acid in? Thanks!
 
Ok, so they opened the bottles before it was really ready. When I say full pressure, I mean full pressure. Take a bottle of unopened soda. That's how hard the bottle should be. You will have some pressure almost immediately. It seems like those people popped the bottles before they reached full pressure. It's something pretty much everybody does the first several times they bottle carb.

True that. If you don't mind drinking a bottle that may be a little young and undercarbed, then just pop one and try it. It's pretty good even when it's really young.

As for leaving it on the yeast cake, I've read a lot of conflicting things. My own experience has shown that when you do pick up a nasty "soy sauce" flavor it can happen any time after about six weeks. I think the reason so many people disagree here is that only about 20% of the people I've had taste a batch that's gotten that flavor have been able to taste it at all. I don't mean they were being polite, I mean they still couldn't taste it after I pointed it out.

I prefer to rack off the yeast once the brew, any brew, is either at FG or within 0.002 points of the estimated FG. Even if other people can't taste the "soy sauce" flavor, I can. I'd rather not have it in my brew.

Usually, all this means is that one of your seals isn't perfect. Since you're probably done with high krausen, you aren't producing enough co2 pressure to cause the airlock to bubble. The co2 is leaking out of one of the seal since there is no water to provide resistance to the flow. This happens more in fermenting buckets then carboys, but it happens in both.

If you want to know if it's fermenting, take gravity readings a few days apart. If your gravity is dropping, it's fermenting.

Yes you can. I wouldn't toss another batch on top of it after this one, but you can do that once.

You can use table sugar. Table sugar adds nothing in any direction to flavor. It increases the alcohol content only. It's a little more of an increase to the gravity then dextrose. If I remember correctly, dextrose is 42 gravity points per lb and table sugar (sucrose) is 46.

Apple cider is apple juice with the pulp left in. Usually apple juice has been treated with pectin enzyme to clear it. Cider usually hasn't been. It's also common for cider to have spices in it.

IMO, cider generally makes superior hard apple cider. If you want it to clear, you will need to add pectin enzyme. I prefer to not even try to clear it when it's been made with commercial cider. I would say that the flavor of cloudy hard apple cider made from commercial cider is more well rounded. Since commercial cider is mostly a seasonal item, I make hard apple cider with it in season. I can make apfelwein or apple juice based hard cider any time of year.
Thanks for your thorough input, as always.
 
What did you boil the sugar in? How much apple juice did you mix in? When did you mix the citric acid in? Thanks!

I boiled 2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water and add citric acid before it starts to boil, put that in the bucket and added 6 gallons of apple juice. I believe 1 pound of granulated table sugar = (approx) 2 1/4 cups. I use 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid for every pound of sugar.
 
I boiled 2 cups of sugar to 1 cup of water and add citric acid before it starts to boil, put that in the bucket and added 6 gallons of apple juice. I believe 1 pound of granulated table sugar = (approx) 2 1/4 cups. I use 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid for every pound of sugar.

Thanks!
Is it finished? How does it compare to the original recipe? What yeast did you use?

Thanks again.
 
Thanks!
Is it finished? How does it compare to the original recipe? What yeast did you use?

Thanks again.

I used montrachet and hydrated before pitching. I'm not sure there is much difference in the taste between fermented corn and cane sugar. I did use a little more sugar than the original recipe called for. I'm not sure what the ABV is. I didn't have a hydrometer to check the OG. It's only 33 days old and I have to say it's pretty tasty already. Like a dry white wine with just a hint of apple.
 
My higher-ABV batch of apfelwein (OG 1.095) doesn't seem to want to ferment dry; it's been stuck for a weeks, and a week ago I racked and re-pitched with EC-1118. It was down to 1.02 a few weeks ago, and when I pulled a sample tonight it's only gone down to 1.017 or so. I'm cranking the heat in here (it's probably mid-60s) to 75 for a while, and I swirled the carboy in hopes of waking up my lazy yeast, haha. If I can't get it restarted, I don't hate the idea of a 10%ish lightly sweet cider, but that wasn't really what I'd planned. Any ideas?

Whether I get this to ferment dry or not, I think I'm going to rack and oak it with some medium toast French oak cubes for a month or two once I get it off the yeast and see what kind of results I get.
 
You might try degassing it. With the extra sugar you are making a lot of CO2 in solution which stresses the yeast.

You might also need some yeast enegizer. Apfelwein is pretty much just sugar and you gave it a lot of extra sugar to work through and it might be out of gas.
 
My higher-ABV batch of apfelwein (OG 1.095) doesn't seem to want to ferment dry; it's been stuck for a weeks, and a week ago I racked and re-pitched with EC-1118. It was down to 1.02 a few weeks ago, and when I pulled a sample tonight it's only gone down to 1.017 or so. I'm cranking the heat in here (it's probably mid-60s) to 75 for a while, and I swirled the carboy in hopes of waking up my lazy yeast, haha. If I can't get it restarted, I don't hate the idea of a 10%ish lightly sweet cider, but that wasn't really what I'd planned. Any ideas?

Whether I get this to ferment dry or not, I think I'm going to rack and oak it with some medium toast French oak cubes for a month or two once I get it off the yeast and see what kind of results I get.

You might try degassing it. With the extra sugar you are making a lot of CO2 in solution which stresses the yeast.

You might also need some yeast enegizer. Apfelwein is pretty much just sugar and you gave it a lot of extra sugar to work through and it might be out of gas.
Yep yep. Give it a degassing. Raise the temp. Do the hokie pokie. If that doesn't work... Relax. If you are going to oak it for a couple months or more anyway it will probably finish then. Generally a "stuck" fermentation is less stuck and more slow. If you still don't have what you think is FG after oaking, then I would suggest bottle pasteurizing. More for safety then anything else.
 
I've hit the two month mark and oddly enough I still have 5 bottles still and another full 5 gallons in carbed in bottles completely untouched. I think I'm going to bulk age this by racking it to get it off of the yeast. I want to let it sit another 2 months before bottling. I think I may add some oak to it too. Would you guys recommend adding anything to it when I rack it. K-Meta (campden) or Sorbate? Or ahould I just rack it and leave it with no worries?
 
I just bottled 5 gal. that's been sitting in the secondary since Dec 27th! It tasted wonderful and was soooo clear. I have another 5 gal. yet to bottle from the same date.
 
MarkKF said:
I just bottled 5 gal. that's been sitting in the secondary since Dec 27th! It tasted wonderful and was soooo clear. I have another 5 gal. yet to bottle from the same date.
Did you just rack it to secondary or did you add k-meta or anything to it?
 
I just racked off of the yeast and topped up with about 32oz more apple juice. I assume this will start fermentation again for a bit? I plan on leaving this sit at least another 2 months. Will it be okay without adding anything to it?
 
wineANDbrine said:
I started a batch of something similar to this about a week ago. I had an OG of 1.09 or so. Is that too high for it to turn out okay?
My current batch i made with extra sugar to boost the ABV and started at 1.08. I just racked it to age it and smooth it out but it tasted great at 2 months. Yours will be around 12% but should taste fine. I find the regular recipe a little too light anyway
 
jstampler said:
My current batch i made with extra sugar to boost the ABV and started at 1.08. I just racked it to age it and smooth it out but it tasted great at 2 months. Yours will be around 12% but should taste fine. I find the regular recipe a little too light anyway

Alright cool. I just noticed that EdWorts recipe ended up being 8.5% ABV and that mine is a bit higher. I'll go with it and see how it comes out.
 
I just tasted mine after sitting for about a month. Can't say I enjoyed it all that much...i tasted potential but it also had a taste that can only be described as "pukey". Gross, right? I'm hoping it's just because it's so young.
 
I just tasted mine after sitting for about a month. Can't say I enjoyed it all that much...i tasted potential but it also had a taste that can only be described as "pukey". Gross, right? I'm hoping it's just because it's so young.

it calls for at least 6 months.
what temp are you fermenting at?
 
I've got 2 kegs full of this stuff now and 2 batches bottled, so I am going to start to bulk age future batches for kegging in a secondary. Should I use campden tablets when I rack it if it will be sitting in a carboy for several months?
 
Dave you can use campden if you want,but it is not required.

I've got 2 kegs full of this stuff now and 2 batches bottled, so I am going to start to bulk age future batches for kegging in a secondary. Should I use campden tablets when I rack it if it will be sitting in a carboy for several months?
 
I racked my 2 month old batch Sunday and topped up to 6 gallons with about 1/4 gallon more apple juice. Should I see any fermentation starting back up? Bubbles, airlock activity, anything? I haven't seen a thing and I just hope I don't bottle it in a month or two and have bottle bombs.
 
I've got 2 kegs full of this stuff now and 2 batches bottled, so I am going to start to bulk age future batches for kegging in a secondary. Should I use campden tablets when I rack it if it will be sitting in a carboy for several months?

did your batch(es) ever clear up - the one(s) you made using motts?
 
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