Too ambitious for a second brew?

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Ibanous

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So my first brew is still in the fermenter and I’m ready to start a second. My initial idea of doing a stout has ballooned into a monster. Reading about some of the different stout types I’m intrigued by the idea of an oatmeal stout, then I thought hey why not a chocolate oatmeal stout, which then became a chocolate coffee oatmeal stout, finally I saw some people adding lactose like a milk stout to further sweeten and increase the creaminess.

I really like the idea of all these flavors in a sweeter desert beer of sorts. At the same time it feels like I’m throwing in everything but the kitchen sink. I’m a bit concerned about the number of moving parts. I think I have a clear plan on each individual component. I’m just not sure if the finished product will come together as I expect.

So anyone want to chime in and tell me if this is to outrageous, or give any other advice?
 
It's fun to add things and experiment but if you do too much and it doesnt turn out, it will be hard to pin point where it went wrong. You may end up with something that is just muddy in flavor. I'd take it easy.
 
If you have a recipe for a chocolate coffee oatmeal milk stout, it won't be much harder than any other recipe. Oatmeal requires a mash (or mash-like) process with some malted barley. This takes longer than a typical steep, but isn't hard.

I made my own chocolate cherry oatmeal stout a while back and it wasn't particularly difficult. It didn't come out as well as I would have liked (especially considering the cost for cherries), but it's not hard to do.
 
I am afraid that you are already demonstrating some of the early signs of BA...that is Brewing Addiction. I have suffered with it for many years and always have about two or three new brews that I want to try out!!!!!
 
If it were me, I'd skip the lactose. Rack the chocolate oatmeal stout, once finished fermenting, onto some coffee grounds for 48 hours, then bottle. Check out the Can You Brew It episode with Spike from Terrapin talking about the Wake and Bake, Imperial Oatmeal Coffee Stout for further ideas and processes.
 
Beer brewing:

0. Sanitize.
1. Buy extract or mash grains and sparge.
2. Boil.
3. Add hops (optional)
4. Pitch yeast and allow to ferment.
5. Store and Condition (bottle, keg, whatever)
6. Enjoy.

It really is that simple. All the rest is window dressing; if you hit these points you'll at least get a drinkable brew.

In short, go wild. Worst is you get it wrong.
 
Beer brewing:

0. Sanitize.
1. Buy extract or mash grains and sparge.
2. Boil.
3. Add hops (optional)
4. Pitch yeast and allow to ferment.
5. Store and Condition (bottle, keg, whatever)
6. Enjoy.

It really is that simple. All the rest is window dressing; if you hit these points you'll at least get a drinkable brew.

In short, go wild. Worst is you get it wrong.


Don't know if I would call hops optional. They are a main ingredient to balance out the sweetness of the malt. Unless of course your making malto goya or using something else as a bittering agent.

I brewed one beer, then immediately made Graff. Had a beer and a cider right away. Now, I'll do two brews back to back in one brew day. If I wasn't so tired by the end, I'd do a third.
 
It's fun to add things and experiment but if you do too much and it doesnt turn out, it will be hard to pin point where it went wrong. You may end up with something that is just muddy in flavor. I'd take it easy.

Agreed and I'd take it a step further. Beyond trying to pin point what went wrong, I think you should focus on your process. When people start brewing, they're so excited, they want to brew everything (myself included). What ends up happening is you make a broad range of "good" beer.

IMO I think you should focus on one or two beers you really like and make them "great". Make them your "in-house" brews, focus on understanding your equipment, how the ingredients affect your beer, good fermentation practices and streamlining your brew day. Get these concepts down now while your learning so if an issue arises you'll pay more attention to the recipe and not your process. You can add all the extra goodies like oatmeal and chocolate later.
 
You probably won't listen to reason (nobody does) but here it is anyway. Learn to make a good basic beer before you try to some Cocoa Fruity Cascadian Belgian Triple Imperial IPA with $80 worth of ingredients.
 
I would just make a basic stout and build upon it on subsequent batches. Instead focus on your process, timing and equipment. Spend the extra money on upgrading your brewing equipment.
 
You can take the slow safe route and be a brewing badass in 2-3 years or you can try everything you want, **** up a batch here and there because you went too far, make a lot of great beer here and there as well, and be a brewing badass in 6 months. Your choice mate, brew on! :mug:

There's a reason they let the first year residents operate on people with only some supervision from behind :)
 
DannPM said:
You can take the slow safe route and be a brewing badass in 2-3 years or you can try everything you want, **** up a batch here and there because you went too far, and be a brewing badass in 6 months. Your choice mate, brew on! :mug:

Or be utterly confused at 6 months. :p

For the record, I'm not saying confusion is a guaranteed outcome, just pointing out that being a "brewing badass" is absolutely not the only possible outcome from trying whatever the hell you want for 6 months. :D

at least for me, if there's no method to the madness, I'm not learning nearly as much as I could be.
 
If you consider hops an optional ingredient, in my book, you're already doing it wrong.

Eh, people brewed for millennia without hops. However, I was being figurative because many recipes call for different hop schedules, no aroma or no flavor hops, and so on and really, sometimes it's better to just not be a pedant.
 
This makes me think about the guy that got me started brewing... funny thing too, he really sucked at it and once I began brewing myself I passed him in skill in a couple months. The last time I was over at his place he proudly showed me the enormous box of ingredients he had purchased (extract brewer) to make a beer he thought of himself. It is a chocolate coffee cherry porter. He had a 5 pound bag of coffee kilned malt, never used it but I'm sure its something your supposed to use in moderation, along with 5 lbs. other specialty grains, 15 lbs of extract, jars of dark candi syrup... $120 in ingredients. And one vial of yeast. I can't tell this guy anything either, as he is 20 years my senior.
This "beer" is going to come in somewhere around 1.180 I calculated, its going to stall like a muthaf***er because he probably won't even make a starter, the coffee malt is going to taste like you're licking a columbian hobos bunghole, and he's not going to have learned anything other than that his beer tastes like crap.
All I'm saying is, feel free to experiment and even stick your neck out a little... but don't be this guy.
 
Or be utterly confused at 6 months. :p

For the record, I'm not saying confusion is a guaranteed outcome, just pointing out that being a "brewing badass" is absolutely not the only possible outcome from trying whatever the hell you want for 6 months. :D

at least for me, if there's no method to the madness, I'm not learning nearly as much as I could be.


Haha true man! This was my route but I was also listening to about 6-7 hours of the Brew Strong show and the Jamil show via podcast everyday at work, basically going to brewing class with these masters for 7 hours a day 5 days a week for months on end followed up by an hour or two of reading from stuff like designing great beers, BLAM, wild brews, farmhouse ales, etc. when I got home.

Not saying I am a brewing badass, I'm trying to get there, but learning as much as you can while doing everything you can is a good combo for a fast learning curve IMO :)

I forgot to add that part about cramming in as much knowledge as you can.

Revised advice: Learn as much as you possibly can, go try those things, all of those things, make your own recipes after studying how to, and brew as often as possible. Follow every urge and if it turns out badly, you've learned and have mediocre beer to serve to any mediocre guests who come over, because when you're making great beer, that will be all for you and your friends!
 
Cyclometh said:
Beer brewing:

0. Sanitize.
1. Buy extract or mash grains and sparge.
2. Boil.
3. Add hops (optional)
4. Pitch yeast and allow to ferment.
5. Store and Condition (bottle, keg, whatever)
6. Enjoy.

It really is that simple. All the rest is window dressing; if you hit these points you'll at least get a drinkable brew.

In short, go wild. Worst is you get it wrong.

You forgot RDWHAHB. :mug:
 
Beyond trying to pin point what went wrong, I think you should focus on your process. When people start brewing, they're so excited, they want to brew everything (myself included). What ends up happening is you make a broad range of "good" beer.

IMO I think you should focus on one or two beers you really like and make them "great". Make them your "in-house" brews, focus on understanding your equipment, how the ingredients affect your beer, good fermentation practices and streamlining your brew day. Get these concepts down now while your learning so if an issue arises you'll pay more attention to the recipe and not your process. You can add all the extra goodies like oatmeal and chocolate later.

This. OMGWTFBBQ THIS.

Within reason, of course. ;)

Ibanous:

Some people are "slap it in a pot and see what happens" cooks. When they become brewers they remain perfectly satisfied with that - the adventure of experimentation is what they love, and if a batch doesn't turn out according to plan/dream/hallucination, no harm done. It won't kill you to drink it, it's still probably pretty damn good even if it did miss the mark, and it probably still has an amount of alcohol in it sufficient to fuel the next "Gosh, I wonder what a Mocha Caramel Belgian IPA would taste like..." idea. If that describes you, then disregard the above and have a BLAST with my compliments and encouragement.

If not, if you want to make the best beer you can possibly brew each and every time you fire up your brewery, you need to spend some time perfecting process and letting the techniques of brewing settle into your bones. There's a reason why successful chefs make cooking look easy, like just "toss a little of that in there, BAM". They've spent years, often decades perfecting their craft. All that studying and practice gave them the XP they need to instinctively know what flavors meld, and how a variation in technique will impact the dish. That's what makes their "let's see what's in the cupboard and throw together something" taste divine every single time, while my attempts more often than not taste like, er, a bucket of poo: I don't have their experience, so I'm just doing the cooking equivalent of throwing things against the wall to see what sticks.

I subscribe to the "practice makes perfect" method, in case you can't tell. But you should give yourself time to figure out where you fit in! I advise you to go freakin' nuts for a while, dive head-first into this crazy hobby. Take careful notes of what you brew, how you brewed it, and careful descriptions of flavor, appearance and whatnot.* Then, when you get the WHOOHOO out of your system and the fascination with Apple Cinnamon Scotch Belgian Lager wears off - and it will - look back through your notes and pick out a couple or three simple recipes which you found really tasty. Then start brewing those like Scoundrel advises. When you get them dialed in to that you don't think you can make them any better, start going afield again.

Still and all, while you're first learning I advise to KISS. You'll be more successful that way, less likely to drop lots of dosh on ingredients for a beer that's at best disappointing.

Cheers! :mug:

Bob

* I use the BJCP form, so if you want paper you can use that. Many brewing software applications have note-taking capabilities. Don't forget to refer to the style descriptions so you have some idea of what the beer should taste like; that way your notes make sense.
 
Do whatever you want, but remember that you don't learn to fly in a 747, you don't learn to drive in a Ferrari, and you don't play van halen licks at your first guitar lesson.

If you want to be a great brewer, the kind where all your friends always want to drink your beers and always ask you to bring the keg, then learn how to brew simple recipes first. Once you understand the process, understand what each step of the process really does, what each ingredient brings to the table, and how freakin important your yeast and fermentation really is...then keep brewing those recipes until they taste like or better than the commercial examples of the style. Once you do that, you'll have the fundamentals in place to start experimenting with more complex recipes and techniques.

My opinion is that it's MUCH more rewarding to crack open a FLAWLESS, AMAZING dry stout, or pale ale than it is to crack open a choco-belgian-coffee-cherry-star anise-banana-schwarzbier that wasn't fermented properly, has flavors that don't blend and fight with each other, isn't carbonated properly, is cloudy and yeasty....
 
This was my route but I was also listening to about 6-7 hours of the Brew Strong show and the Jamil show via podcast everyday at work, basically going to brewing class with these masters for 7 hours a day 5 days a week for months on end

I must know if your employer is hiring! Sounds like my kind of job. :)
 
Thanks everyone for the responses, I see the main opinions vary between "Go crazy" and "Take it slow and develop process". I really do see both sides. I'm definitely excited to be able to craft exciting beers that are exactly what I want to drink. That being said I think to achieve that I'll have to learn some of the basics as many have mentioned first to better understand how the whole great complex thing works.

On the other hand I have a limited supply of patience, so I'll have to balance the two sides as I explore this new hobby.

I have decided to hold off on the perhaps over the top recipe I was considering both to allow myself to learn more about the process and so I can comfortably get another batch in the fermenter as soon as I can (I foresee the first batch going quickly).

I've decided on a more basic stout though I am allowing myself a bit of out of the ordinary by doing some lactose, so a milk stout. Otherwise it’s fairly close to the basic Stout recipe in How to Brew.

In other news my first brew is a week in and fermenting seems to have died down I pulled a sample and the gravity reading looks right and it tasted pretty darn good for a flat warm beer.
 
I subscribe to the "practice makes perfect" method, in case you can't tell. But you should give yourself time to figure out where you fit in! I advise you to go freakin' nuts for a while, dive head-first into this crazy hobby. Take careful notes of what you brew, how you brewed it, and careful descriptions of flavor, appearance and whatnot.* Then, when you get the WHOOHOO out of your system and the fascination with Apple Cinnamon Scotch Belgian Lager wears off - and it will - look back through your notes and pick out a couple or three simple recipes which you found really tasty.

I see the main opinions vary between "Go crazy" and "Take it slow and develop process".

Bob drives home a good point. Finding where you fit in is important. Plus when your new, you want to have a ton of fun as the mad scientist. Ibanous I think you can have your cake and eat it too on this one. You can go crazy AND develop a good process. Something I didn't do when I started. Basically when your making your "Apple Cinnamon Scotch Belgian Lager" (classic Bob :mug:) just pay attention to what your doing.

Oh one more thing. Just remember that when you make that Old Bay beer like someone I know did... eh hem... it may become that "private reserve" beer that you and only you will drink :)

Good luck!
 

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