New RIMS system teardown

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Soviet

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Fellow brewers:

I'm ready to pony up some dough and build a nicer brew system. I've talked to a couple of folks and worked up some sketches. Those of you guys who have build a system of your own, if you could take a look at this design and tell me what won't work, how to improve or simplify the design, I would be forever in your debt. Some of the goals for the system were:

  • smaller footprint (2 vessel width)
  • simplicity (1 burner, 1 pump)
  • repeatability (PID+heat exchanger keep temps stable) in mashtun
  • ability to fly sparge for good efficiency

Those are just a few... I'm having some doubts about the plumbing schematics, perhaps there's an easier way with fewer valves, loops, etc.. let me know what you think!

rimsv4_scematic.jpg
 
Can you move the wort from the mash to the boil vessel and sparge at the same time with that configuration? Or does the mash collect in the "vessel" while sparging and then go into the boil kettle after sparging?

Seems like an interesting design. I am intrigued.

One thing I would look into--if you are going to electrify the mash, perhaps, electrify the boil kettle too? Why not? Unless too expensive and no ability to run 220v on dedicated circuit.

In that case--if running gas I may just do away with the PID and just run mash through a copper coil in the hotter liquor tank to maintain temp instead.

Other factors to me are important to design--> easy take apart or easy clean in place and storage... With all those valves is this going to be hard plumbed or quick disconnects and tubing?
 
For simple and with one pump , one PID (220 V) search "single vessel BIAB brewing" . Very sweet set up with a small footprint. I have been looking and plan to go this route myself. It seems a lot less work & cost from start to finish; for either the project or the brew process including maintenance or clean up. I hope I'm not off topic here. Cheers;)
 
Can you move the wort from the mash to the boil vessel and sparge at the same time with that configuration? Or does the mash collect in the "vessel" while sparging and then go into the boil kettle after sparging?

The sweet wort runnings would drain into the vessel on the lower tier while the pump poured the sparge water into the mashtun rinsing the grain simultaneously. Going for good efficiency too :).

I am trying to keep costs down if I can. That's a good point with the plumbing—I don't want lots of congealing growths... how would the "quick disconnects" work? Would you be able to quick disconnect from the intake into the pump? Any example photos I you know of?
 
I dont think you can drain and pump sparge water at the same time without a valve in there... maybe something like this valve configuration would work.

untitled.jpg
 
The MLT would drain by pure gravity straight down (pink arrows). At the same time, the HLT would flow into the pump via yellow arrows and up through the heat exchanger into the top. Note the lighter blue pipe goes behind (doesn't connect to) the main dark blue plumbing. I might be wrong, but I think that works, doesn't it? If there's a simpler way, definitely tell me.

rimsv4_scematic_2.jpg
 
Perhaps this would be simpler... I don't know much about quick disconnects, but assuming they are what I think they are, we could do something like this (this way, when you wanted to have HLT infuse the MLT with sparge water, you could connect A1 to the pump at B2, and just have the MLT drain into the vessel? This seems a bit simpler using flexible hoses with hot-swappable connectors...

rimsv4_scematic_4.jpg
 
Perhaps this would be simpler... I don't know much about quick disconnects, but assuming they are what I think they are, we could do something like this (this way, when you wanted to have HLT infuse the MLT with sparge water, you could connect A1 to the pump at B2, and just have the MLT drain into the vessel? This seems a bit simpler using flexible hoses with hot-swappable connectors...

rimsv4_scematic_4.jpg

Agreed , This is what I do.
 
I don't want lots of congealing growths... how would the "quick disconnects" work? Would you be able to quick disconnect from the intake into the pump?

You could hard plumb it with stainless or copper and, after running cleaner, run hot ass water through it, to sanitize, at the end and air dry. I assume you'll be doing that with the plate chiller anyway...

I would think it would make sense to run disconnects w/ short hosing from the kettle, vessel, and mash, and anything else you want to easily remove for cleaning purposes.

If costs are a concern, copper and brass valves will make it relatively inexpensive to plumb--even with all the valves.

It looks like a good idea to me, with the one pump and all. The first setup I built was a similar type of one pump design. My first a was a three tier. I put the sparge vessel on the bottom (pretty much ground level) with a copper coil hard plumbed to recirculate mash. The top was the mash vessel that gravity fed into the boil vessel, which was on the second tier (while the pump ran to sparge). After the boil, the second tier was high enough to gravity feed into a fermenter.

Your design eliminates a tier and incorporates a plate chiller driven by the pump. I am not a fan of plate chillers (don't like things I can't see are clean), but I think this design will work well.

The only downside I see is that you can't heat the mash as it fills the vessel (unless you put a burner there)--like you can if you were filling the boil vessel directly. That isn't anything but a time concern though.

Edit: the second design is simpler. Also, there are three main disconnects I have seen: Plastic high temp, sometimes you can find them that stop flow after disconnecting--this is nice but harder to clean. Camlocks, cheaper stainless disconnects--most popular probably. And morebeer offers another stainless variety that has a cleaner look and full 1/2" flow. I use the latter--they are more expensive, but I like them best.

you can look at photos in my gallery for pics of the quick disconnects.... i use them pretty extensively on the system pictured there....
 
Great feedback so far... would I realistically be able to use these quick disconnects at the points marked with red squares or am I imagining them wrong?
 
I would deff go with the flexable tubing and quick disconnects. I got mine from Bargainfittings.com they are great!

On the hard plumbing diagram there is nothing to keep the HLT/BK from flowing to the "vessel" when you want it to flow to the pump.
 
Agreed , This is what I do.

I second this vote. Quick disconnects are the way to go too. Use flexible thermoplastic tubing. Keep one female disconnect (usually more expensive than male fitting) on the section side of the pump. Then place a male diconnect on the outflow side - after a ball valve - of your MLT. Also place a female / male on the outflow side of your HLT so you can easily change the configuration when sparging: MLT draining through an unconnected male disconnect into your vessel while HLT is connected to suction side of the pump (female).
 
Would I be able to use those quick disconnects/camlocks with Stout Kettles? I think all of them have triclamp threadless fittings like this: Home Conical Outlets

tri clamps are a sort of quick disconnect... just not all that quick. Personally I dislike tri clamps--but they are very sanitary--but, then again, on the hot side, sanitary is achieved with heat. IMO on the hot side, tri clamps add costs significantly--without improving function (ease of use.

Others, i am sure, disagree.


you could use the tri-clamps in combination with other disconnects. That is, tri-clamps coming off the kettles, and other quick disconnects elsewhere.

Alternatively, seems to me, you could attach other quick disconnects to the tri clamp barbs via a short piece of tubing. In that case, use the quick disconnects that have the disconnect on one side and a barb (as opposed to pipe thread) on the other. The two barbed ends face each other, connected with the tubing, and the disconnect end can be use to changes line quickly.
 
Wow, some really great feedback so far... I've read some great things about blichmann and stout and I am thinking about perhaps buying the MLT from blichmann (I heard the false bottom works wonderfully) and the kettle from Stout (they've got that great tangential inlet and cone bottom) that would be my two vessels.

I'm going to start generating a parts list in this thread, and if the helpful people of HBT will help, I'll post a new thread with the documented build. Thanks so much so far, all.
 
I think the blichmann stuff is weldless... Someone can correct me if I am wrong...

But for that sort of money, personally, weldless gaskets and such would be a deal breaker for me. Personal preference perhaps, but welded fittings are cleaner and stronger and less hassle.

Morebeer has a few 15 gallon (welded) stainless kettles for $240. They have a spot for a thermometer and a ball valve. Easy threaded stainless screen as well. You can pump into and out of the ball valve to keep things simple. Also short and wide kettle are better for efficiency than tall and skinny ones.

Simple and rugged and plenty of capacity. Decent price. The extra bells and whistles, I think just become more things to clean (sight glasses and such).

They would likely drill and weld any extra fittings on for you as well. (for the eletcric stuff)
 
I don't mind if it's weldless as long as it doesn't leak—I've seen enough good reviews of blichmann to know they put out a quality product. I'd go Stout on the mashtun too, but I really dig the design of the false bottom that's unique to blichmann (perforated screen design—does polarware or any other brand of pot have this or something that works just as well?).

Anyway, I gotta generate a parts list and I need help:

  • 10" Banjo Burner
  • 15 Gal Stout Brew Kettle w/ Tangential Inlet
  • 15 gal Blichmann or Stout Mashtun w/ False Bottom (undecided)
  • 3 or 4 High-Temp Silicone Hoses
  • Stainless Quick Disconnects
  • Morebeer March Pump
  • Rims Module from Stout
  • Heating element (need help finding one compatible with Stout Rims Module)
  • PID (have no idea what to look for)
  • Blichmann Plate Chiller
  • L-Shape Brew Stand - need input on how to build this, but know a welder that can help
  • inexpensive vessel for the bottom tier (large picnic cooler?)
  • temperature probe (or do they come with PID?)
  • 4 wheels for brewstand
  • blichmann autosparge
  • lots of better bottles :)

What am I missing? What doesn't add up? Really appreciate all the help and opinions I've heard. Thank you guys.
 
Also short and wide kettle are better for efficiency than tall and skinny ones.
That dosent make sence... what kind of efficency are you talking? It will take more heat energy to keep and get a short wide kettle boiling. Also a short wide will have a higher boil off rate, which is fine if you are wanting to concentrate your wort. I believe the best kettle is just as tall as it is wide that has a decent boil off and dosent require too much energy to boil.
 
Also short and wide kettle are better for efficiency than tall and skinny ones.
That dosent make sence... what kind of efficency are you talking? It will take more heat energy to keep and get a short wide kettle boiling. Also a short wide will have a higher boil off rate, which is fine if you are wanting to concentrate your wort. I believe the best kettle is just as tall as it is wide that has a decent boil off and dosent require too much energy to boil.

shallower grain beds are more efficient with sparging/mashing.... less depth to rinse sugars through...
 
I don't mind if it's weldless as long as it doesn't leak—I've seen enough good reviews of blichmann to know they put out a quality product. I'd go Stout on the mashtun too, but I really dig the design of the false bottom that's unique to blichmann (perforated screen design—does polarware or any other brand of pot have this or something that works just as well?).

Anyway, I gotta generate a parts list and I need help:

  • 10" Banjo Burner
  • 15 Gal Stout Brew Kettle w/ Tangential Inlet
  • 15 gal Blichmann or Stout Mashtun w/ False Bottom (undecided)
  • 3 or 4 High-Temp Silicone Hoses
  • Stainless Quick Disconnects
  • Morebeer March Pump
  • Rims Module from Stout
  • Heating element (need help finding one compatible with Stout Rims Module)
  • PID (have no idea what to look for)
  • Blichmann Plate Chiller
  • L-Shape Brew Stand - need input on how to build this, but know a welder that can help
  • inexpensive vessel for the bottom tier (large picnic cooler?)
  • temperature probe (or do they come with PID?)
  • 4 wheels for brewstand
  • blichmann autosparge
  • lots of better bottles :)

What am I missing? What doesn't add up? Really appreciate all the help and opinions I've heard. Thank you guys.


The list looks good. A lot of fun. I don't see anything missing.

The specifics on the rims/pid and such, you'll just have to search around and copy/modify what other guys are doing--then find the best deals to purchase what is needed.

As for other stuff--i have so much damn brewing equipment... that list never ends and therefore is to hard compile. seems always changing and tweaking stuff.

Sometimes stuff I have, but haven't used for years-->finds new life to do something else...
 
I don't mind if it's weldless as long as it doesn't leak—I've seen enough good reviews of blichmann to know they put out a quality product. I'd go Stout on the mashtun too, but I really dig the design of the false bottom that's unique to blichmann (perforated screen design—does polarware or any other brand of pot have this or something that works just as well?).

Anyway, I gotta generate a parts list and I need help:

  • 10" Banjo Burner
  • 15 Gal Stout Brew Kettle w/ Tangential Inlet
  • 15 gal Blichmann or Stout Mashtun w/ False Bottom (undecided)
  • 3 or 4 High-Temp Silicone Hoses
  • Stainless Quick Disconnects
  • Morebeer March Pump
  • Rims Module from Stout
  • Heating element (need help finding one compatible with Stout Rims Module)
  • PID (have no idea what to look for)
  • Blichmann Plate Chiller
  • L-Shape Brew Stand - need input on how to build this, but know a welder that can help
  • inexpensive vessel for the bottom tier (large picnic cooler?)
  • temperature probe (or do they come with PID?)
  • 4 wheels for brewstand
  • blichmann autosparge
  • lots of better bottles :)

What am I missing? What doesn't add up? Really appreciate all the help and opinions I've heard. Thank you guys.
Check out "Agri/supply" for burners, cookers, ect. Also if you are a handy builder check the thread for "soldering stainless steel" and make a keggle. Have fun, Merry X-Mas & Cheers:mug:
 
I'm personally not very handy, but I can get help where needed. A friend of mine's son is going to school for welding, so he can help a bit. I've thought about making a keggle but decided against it for a number of reasons. @BOBrob - is there a reason you recommend agri/supply? Everyone else, if nobody can think of what else I might be missing in my list, I better start pricing these items and ordering them.
 
I can see how you would read it that way.... although, the wider kettles may be more efficient to heat--with direct gas fired anyway. The flame is heating a larger surface area on a wider kettle (the bottom of the kettle is larger) and, presumably, less heat is wasted going up and around the kettle. Probably negligible difference though.

I prefer the kegs--because of handles and ruggedness. But the 15 gallon morebeer or polarware kettles I think are the ideal design. Hell, I use a polarware kettle as a flat bottom fermenter---and FAR prefer it over my morebeer conical....

way less to take apart and clean, more durable, and can steam sanitize on the burner!
 
Ok, did my taxes and might have a bit more money to spend. Tell me what you think...


  • 19.8 Gal Stout Brew Kettle w/ Tangential Inlet - $579
  • 19.8 Stout Mashtun w/ False Bottom - $449
  • Rims Module from Stout - $140
  • 20 ft 1/2" Silicon Tubing - $50
  • 4 x C Style SS Quick disconnects - $23.80
  • 4 x A Style SS Quick Disconnects - $15
  • Morebeer.com H315HF March Pump - $150
  • Screw-In Heating element $20
  • Temperature Probe / Thermocouple ~$20-30
  • Omega CN7553 PID - $97
  • SSR - Why do I need this? - $15.00
  • Blichmann Plate Chiller -$195
  • inexpensive vessel for the bottom tier (large picnic cooler?) - $80?
  • blichmann top tier stand w/ 2 shelves, 1 burner, pumpmount, therminator mount - $808.94
  • blichmann autosparge - 49.95
  • lots of better bottles :)

Total so far: ~$2700

I hate to spend so much on a brew stand but I don't know how to weld nor have any desire to draft plans, find a welder, etc. I like that the blichmann stand is flexible enough to allow me to adjust heights, move things around, etc. Thoughts?
 
If you look at the diagrams on the first page of this thread, my design is RIMS with just one burner on the BK/HLT
 
If you look at the diagrams on the first page of this thread, my design is RIMS with just one burner on the BK/HLT

sorry, thought you might have been changing direction and I missed the burnner on the parts list. Could still do wood with just a metal frame around the burners?

I am a fan of wood, it just looks warmer :)
 
At this price point, SHOULD I be looking at electric instead?
 
At this price point, SHOULD I be looking at electric instead?

FWIW I did my electric build (link below) for quite a bit less than that. You can easily spend that on an electric system. It all depends on what you are looking for. I found the electric let be brew indoors in the winter and allowed some temperature automation that I couldnt have had before.
 
I looked at your thread... I'm dead-set on investing in a Stout Kettle and Mashtun, so mine would probably run quite a bit more than yours in cost (my guess). Those two things alone (as you can see from my parts list) would cost nearly $1K.

Also, I know nothing about circuit schematics, soldering, or any of that. Not even sure what tools I'd need. I'm sure I can rig some pumps together, but I don't know that I want to learn electrical engineering 101. I even considered buying the Braumeister all-in-one unit for $2900 (50L), but I can see it has some limitations and some issues users have discussed in these forums.
 
for circuits its pretty easy... just connecting components together PJ on here is a great help for creating schematics to do what you want. you could probably also find one on the electrical section that would do what you want.
 
Putting together an electrical system is about like putting together a model car. Follow the diagram and put the parts together. People have the listings of the parts required, its pretty straight forward. It will surprise you when you are completed that you could actually do that.

You already have the elec element for the RIMS, its easy to add on to that.
 
What about this whole 240V business? Don't I need to convert something for that? See what an newb I am for this whole electrical thing? If I WERE to hypothetically persue this, I'd be curious to explore the idea of doing a single-vessel system like the braumeister or the DIY BrauBushka (http://arniew.wordpress.com/). Other than efficiency, would there be any other advantage to doing an electric build for more than one vessel?

As you can tell, I'm a bit intrigued, but I have reservations about the ways in which the brewing process is changed. Can you for instance get good enough rolling boil with an electric system? Am I going to have to create a whole ventilation system around it? I appreciate all your comments thus far.
 
Boils are quick and easy with an electric kettle. I have to run my 5500w element about 60% when the kettle is full with 15 gallons.
If you look around on the electric brewing forum here, there are many different ways to do the same thing.
 
Folks: I've been brewing for about 3 years with over 70 or so batches under my belt. I'm looking to invest some more money into my craft. If you've followed this thread, you know I'm contemplating building a 2-vessel, 1 pump rims system with some high-grade stout kettles.

If you look at the price/parts list of the build mentioned in previous posts in this very thread, I'm looking at spending $2700 for a quality brew system. I know I could build that system for a lot less, but I purposely avoided keggles/megapots that I would have to drill/weld/attach threaded fittings. I want IMPECCABLE sanitation and am willing to pay extra to achieve it (stout kettles have those sweet sanitary fittings).

My question is this: considering I'm looking at spending nearly $3000, why shouldn't I order a 50L Speidel Braumeister immediately? Seems like the repeatability factor with that unit would be second to none, and there's been some great reviews. The only limitations I can think of are as follows:

  • I've heard efficiency can be lower than with multi-vessel sytems because of no sparge. If I want to do a high gravity beer, however, couldn't I just do a 5 gallon batch on the 50L unit to fit enough grain?
  • One can't really control the boil/boiloff rate with the waterheater—I'm ok with this as long as I can get a decent rolling boil. Any thoughts?
  • Can't whirlpool the wort as well (I'm guessing) so perhaps you'd get a wort that isn't as clean?

I appreciate all your comments—even the highly critical ones. With the BrauMeister's footprint, the fact that it fits in the frigging dishwasher with the top shelf removed, It would probably cut my brew-day in half, while also allowing me to brew inside makes it a pretty irresistible idea. Talk me out of this if you can.
 
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