Wlp028

Anyone familiar with the fermentation behavior of WLP028 (Edinburgh)? I just racked to secondary after about 8 days in primary as airlock activity had really slowed. This yeast has not acted like any I have used before and I cannot say I'm happy with the outcome of the flavor profile it has imparted (especially compared to similar beers brewed with Wyeast Scottish Ale).

I did ferment around 63 F which is minimum they suggest for this strain. It seem like a fairly slow ferment. The smells coming out of the airlock were not the usual pleasantness...almost a sour smell (I did add some nutmeg, ginger and spices to the brew at 5 minutes left in the boil). I even wondered if my brew were contaminated.

Yesterday when I racked, there was still a large amount of krausen on top, but the gravity had dropped from OG of 1.051 to 1.014. I had high mash temps so I figured it's about done, and racked. Lots of yeast in the beer...so this apparently is not a flocculant strain. Tasting out of the hydrometeor was not initially too good...the beer just seemed thinner than it should have been, and the yeast did not impart what I was expecting (typical scottish ale, caramelly rich goodness). Maybe my fermenation was too cold? There is quite the yeast cake in the secondary right now however, so it seems to be settling a bit. I expect and hope the flavors will be much better after sitting another week.

Anyone else want to comment on this yeast?

ps. i wouldn't say it was really krausen on top...it was really just a thick blanket of yeast...

Your not going to know really untill its conditioned and carbed. Its probably the spices but im shure it will surprise you once its conditioned.

I used 028 for an 80- and I fermented it at 60deg. It took about three weeks to get to fg but it made it. Its a fairly clean yeast at that temp with a hint of smokiness. If you still had a lot of yeast in suspension it probably wasn't done.

I've used it a number of times at normal ale temperatures. It has performed just fine for me and I love the flavor I get from it with peat smoked malt in a 10% strength english style barley wine.

I used it on 3 beers in a row last year, and didn't really like it. All of them took forever to ferment out - up to 3 weeks for a beer 'round 1.065. Then at least another week for things to clear up. All three beers also ended up with a weird red apple-y taste that I didn't like. Fermented low for all; something like 62. I know other people have had really good experiences with the yeast, so my experiences are certainly not universal, but I'm not planning on using it again.

barleyhole said:

Anyone familiar with the fermentation behavior of WLP028 (Edinburgh)? . . . . . . . . . (especially compared to similar beers brewed with Wyeast Scottish Ale).


Anyone else want to comment on this yeast?

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WLP028 and Wyeast scottish 1728 are the same strains from the McEwans brewery, I'd look at something other than the yeast. What did you do differently? Also, this yeast will flocc nicely given enough time, your brew was still working. I typically leave scottish ales in primary for 3 weeks min.

Thats all i have, brew on my friend

^^^ While they may have the same origins, that doesn't mean they are the same strain now. I know of several knowledgeable, long time homebrewers who have stated that they get distinctly different behavior and results from 1728 and 028. I've never used 028, so I can't really comment other than to relay the statements of others.

That said, OP, have you made this recipe before? After only 8 days at fairly low temps, not only was it probably too early to rack (for the best outcome), but it is definitely too early to get a feel for how this will turn out. How do you know it's the yeast that's the problem, rather than the timing or some other part of the equation (grainbill, spices, process)? Scottish breweries typically used low temps and very long fermentations (3 weeks) using yeasts like this. Why not give it time and see how things look (taste?) in a couple weeks? I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm just asking some honest questions.

Also, the "caramelly rich goodness" of most scottish ales is not generally yeast driven, to the best of my knowledge. It comes mainly from the grain and the caramelization during the boil. Yes, a slightly lower than average AA (from mash temps and yeast) doesn't hurt this aspect, but it's not the sole cause.

Palefire said:

I used it on 3 beers in a row last year, and didn't really like it. All of them took forever to ferment out - up to 3 weeks for a beer 'round 1.065. Then at least another week for things to clear up. All three beers also ended up with a weird red apple-y taste that I didn't like. Fermented low for all; something like 62.

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Wow, that's exactly how my 80/- is too. Funny thing is, it didn't taste like this (red apple) until after about a month in the keg. It also fermented on the cool side, around 60ºF.

My experience is not that it takes an especially long time to ferment out, just that the stuff forms a gooey raft on top and stays there for weeks.

I remember having a much more positive experience with 028 early in my brewing enterprise. Maybe it just needs a higher temp.

I agree with the comments that I probably racked too early. I've done about 3-4 batches prior using 1728 and it's always been done fermenting after 1 week at the same temperature. One of those was an all grain and the other ones extract.

That said, this was a different recipe. I used lighter caramel malts and no caramelized brown sugar like I usually do...replaced with biscuit and added some nutmug, grated ginger and a touch of clove. So yes I should expect the flavor to be a lot different, but not the behavior of the yeast. Honestly I should reserve judgement until the final product has matured!

I accredited the fact that I only attenuated down to 1.014 or so to higher mash temps, so that is what determined racking, not the fact the yeast had not settled. Next time I'll be more patient.

That said, I checked the secondary a day after racking and there is a massive yeast cake on the bottom and the beer has darkened a bit from clearing out.

GuldTuborg said:

^^^ While they may have the same origins, that doesn't mean they are the same strain now. I know of several knowledgeable, long time homebrewers who have stated that they get distinctly different behavior and results from 1728 and 028. . . . . . . .

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This is interesting to me, I wonder if anyone has data or detailed testing documented for this. I have had very similar results with both but have not done any controlled comparison per se.

So much yeast, so little time

I've got a Wee Heavy Scottish Ale with this 028 going in a primary right now. The brew was fine, the first day or two of fermentation were fine, but then a !@#%* idiot (who shall remain nameless so that my wrath doesn't boil over) ran a de-humidifier right next to it, which raised the area temperature to 76 for at least a day or two. I've never seen an airlock go so nuts. Should I preparing myself for off flavors?

Thanks, and cheers.

__________________________________________________________
Primaries: Belgian Honey Wit, Devil's Milk, Wee Heavy Scottish Ale
Secondary: Ex-Pat 1800 historic English Pale Ale
Drinking: Nefarious Blonde, India Black Ale, Pumpkin Spice Porter

OhReally said:

. . . . . Should I preparing myself for off flavors?

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It's possible, however we usually need a long age for our wee heavies anyway so it should be fine after a bit of age and/or secondary.

COLObrewer said:

It's possible, however we usually need a long age for our wee heavies anyway so it should be fine after a bit of age and/or secondary.

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True, COLO. I'll just RHAHB and see how it turns out. I checked the gravity today and it's at 1.024 (7.9% ABV so far). Hopefully it'll drop another few points in the coming days. (aiming for 1.021 or so).

Besides, good things come to those who wait.

Cheers

Did you happen to find out if you got any off flavors? A similar thing happened to my strong scotch today. Came home and my closet was 80F. Im certain it only happened today so I quickly got the temp down. Just want to see how forgiveable this strain is. Its my first AG brew and I'm hoping it doesn't have funny flavors since everything else went great.

There were no real discernible off flavors with the beer that I can recall...other than I should have been more patient with it and given it time to mature rather than keg it and drink it. It only got better with time.

That said I brewed a more traditional 80/- last March and the fermentation seemed better but it still took a long time to clear out and for the flavor to develop. It wasn't for many months that the peat smoke flavor became more apparent (something I never got with the Wyeast, though maybe I just drank them too fast!) and now it tastes phenomenal in my opinion (1 bottle left). I also have a carboy full that has been in secondary for 1 month.

I wouldn't worry about the quick spike in temperature. Other people might scoff, but most will advise to RDWHAHB. Anything off from that should mellow out.

oceans11_gt said:

Did you happen to find out if you got any off flavors? A similar thing happened to my strong scotch today. Came home and my closet was 80F. Im certain it only happened today so I quickly got the temp down. Just want to see how forgiveable this strain is. Its my first AG brew and I'm hoping it doesn't have funny flavors since everything else went great.

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Well, in order to give tasting notes, I have to crack one open right now before work. Oh darn...

I only bottled this a little less than three weeks ago (12/15), so it's arguably still a little green. But before that it was in secondary for 8 weeks, 5 of which included aging it on scotch and red oak cubes. My FG ended up at 1.020 (ABV 8.4%).

I'm not tasting any over-the-top funky or off flavors from the higher ferm temps. There are some definite dark fruit notes, but I'm almost sure that's from the oak/scotch, and they might be covering the esters, etc. Unfortunately I didn't set any aside before aging, so I don't have any clean "original" samples to draw from. But even when I drew samples toward the end of fermentation I didn't get any noticeable off flavors from the increased temp. Right now the scotch is definitely the most noticeable part of the flavor, so I may have overdone it a little, but at least I used really good single-malt and we'll just have to see how it develops over the coming months.

I dunno if this helps at all, but I hope it does. Hopefully your 80 degrees didn't do anything terrible to it. Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Cheers!

Side-note: On Monday I had the chance to have a bottle of Traquair House Ale for the first time, and it was absolutely fantastic. It was a real eye-opener in terms of flavor profile/proper Scottish tastes and will be a guide for future batches I make.

Thanks for the updates! I'm sure it didn't do much damage after reading a bit more but I won't know for a month or two. I relax and Enjoy my Imperial Stout in the mean time. :rockin:

I just Googled this thread and I'm having the same issue from the sounds of it.

My questions: how long did it take until those off-flavours settled OP? There's quite a lag time between your original post and your update, so just wondering at what point your brew went from sour to enjoyable. I'm bottle carbing, so my desperate hope is that the yeast in there will clear any acetylaldehyde (possible cause) with enough time.

Details:
2 weeks primary, 2 weeks secondary. I usually rack after 1 week in the primary, but there was a big yeast/krausen disc floating still so I left it one more until they settled. Just bottled them and I noticed a sour-ish smell/taste. Not like vingar, but maybe a tart apple taste. No visible signs of infection. Some searching suggests acetylaldehyde, and that I should have let the yeast clean up the beer longer. I really want this to work. The right Scotch ale flavours are sitting there behind the "sour"

I've been using WLP028 for my Irish Red recipe for several brews now and always have been very pleased with the results. This last time, I couldn't get it at my LHBS but picked up the Wyeast 1728 version instead.

Brew day went normally, the only difference being that I subbed Marris Otter for my regular 2 row base malt and got quite a bit better extraction efficiency (1.062 instead of the typical 1.056 for OG).

After two weeks in primary at 65-68 degrees (again, the same as normal), I'm only down to 1.018 instead of the typical 1.010 finish I get from the White Labs strain. This is a 10% difference in attenuation than what I normally get. I'm not in the habit of holding this one in primary more than two weeks before achieving terminal gravity.

Anyone else notice a difference in attenuation between the White Labs and Wyeast versions?