Vienna Lager suggestions...

goint to be brewing my first lager and was going to try to keep it real simple.

5 gallon batch
10lb vienna malt
.75lb crystal II (65l I'm told)

1oz tettnanger 60min

German lager yeast wlp830

This sound okay?

Yes! Sounds great. I'd consider reducing the crystal a bit to .5 pound, and making sure the IBUs are right about 25. I love Vienna lager!

Grinch said:

goint to be brewing my first lager and was going to try to keep it real simple.

5 gallon batch
10lb vienna malt
.75lb crystal II (65l I'm told)

1oz tettnanger 60min

German lager yeast wlp830

This sound okay?

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An under-appreciated style and like Yooper it's one of my favorites. If you want input I'd use a half pound of CaraHell or CaraPils instead of the darker stuff. What are the IBUs from that one ounce of Tett? I's look for 20-25 in that department. If you want a little bit of hop flavor/aroma a small addition @ 20 minutes is nice.

Thanks for the suggestions! I'll see what I can find. I'm going to see if I can pick up another ounce of tettnanger (got the first oz from a local brewery). I was going to use the crystal II just because that's what I have on hand, but I'll see if the LHBS has anything else. Kinda doubtful- it's a pretty limited store.

I happen to be in the exact same situation. I am planning on brewing my first lager and want to brew a Viena and also keep it simple. This recipe looks like it would be perfect with the suggestions. What would the fermentation schedule look like and what would be the mash schedule for this. Any suggestions?

Oh, I have another question. Would a 90 min boil be requred?

POAS said:

Oh, I have another question. Would a 90 min boil be requred?

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You don't need a 90 minute boil with Vienna unless you want it a little darker. Why not try a 100% Vienna grainbill? And, you could do a decoction to make it a little darker, if you want to torture yourself for a bit....

All kidding aside, it looks like a good recipe. And, decoctions aren't that hard and give you a really nice malty flavor.

Cheers!

I did think of doing 100% vienna... never done the whole decoction deal... guess I'll do a little research and give that a go. you just boil the first runnings and return it to the mash or something like that?

Grinch said:

I did think of doing 100% vienna... never done the whole decoction deal... guess I'll do a little research and give that a go. you just boil the first runnings and return it to the mash or something like that?

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Im very interested in doing an all Vienna lager too. In fact, I think that you have just peaked my interest enough to brew 1 this weekend. This sounds great.

A decoction is taking a thick part of the mash, with little liquid, and boiling it before returning it to the mash to raise to a different step temperature - say, from a protein rest to a sacc rest, or Sacc rest to mashout.

Grinch said:

I did think of doing 100% vienna... never done the whole decoction deal... guess I'll do a little research and give that a go. you just boil the first runnings and return it to the mash or something like that?

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A single decoction is the easiest to do. I did a triple decoction that took me a total of 9 hrs....

For the single decoction, just mash in at 122 F for a protein rest for about 30 mins, then pull off about 1/3 of the mash (grains included) and boil it for about 30 mins and add it back to the main mash. You need a little of the liquid of course, but you should have mostly grains. Some people like to put it through a rest at 155 for a "mini-mash" before cranking up the temp to boiling, but I don't think it is necessary. Also, you need to continually stir it to keep from scorching the grains. Using a propane burner is best. You might have to keep a little hot water around in case you miss your main mash temp, though. BeerSmith has it in the mash section and it's pretty accurate. I'm amazed at how accurate it is sometimes..... It's a little more work, but I think it is totally worth it. Take lots of pics so you can explain it to your brewing friends. I did a presentation on my triple decoction procedure for a traditional Bock and people seemed to like all the pictures and details.

Cheers!

OK, even though I was trying to keep things simple, the decoction deal doesn't sound too bad. If I am doing a partial mash (5 gal, ~6 lbs. total grains plus ~3.5 lbs extract late addition), would the decoction still provide any benefits?

Also, I plan on fermenting this with Bohemian Lager from Wyeast (LHBS doesn't carry white labs), using a yeast starter (2 Liters?). My plan is 50 deg primary, D-rest at 75% of fermentation, then transfer to keg and lager for 6-8 weeks at about 35-40. Any comments? Does this sound OK? Do I need to let it rest at close to 50 after the D-rest before transferring to keg, or does the D-rest take care of the final 25% of fermentation?

POAS said:

OK, even though I was trying to keep things simple, the decoction deal doesn't sound too bad. If I am doing a partial mash (5 gal, ~6 lbs. total grains plus ~3.5 lbs extract late addition), would the decoction still provide any benefits?

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I don't think that a decoction would be very easy with only 6 lbs. of grain. You would have to mash VERY thin and decoction a very small portion of the grains. Decoctions really aren't necessary these days because of the quality of grain that is available. They were only used in the early days of brewing because the grain was undermodified, and it was the only way to raise the temp to a "certain" value (no thermometers 1000 years ago). These days just using Munich malt and maybe a tiny bit of Special B and some Aromatic and/or Melanoidin malt will help. Also, add the extract for the entire boil and boil for at least 90 mins to help with the production of melanoidins and to caramelize the sugars.

POAS said:

Also, I plan on fermenting this with Bohemian Lager from Wyeast (LHBS doesn't carry white labs), using a yeast starter (2 Liters?). My plan is 50 deg primary, D-rest at 75% of fermentation, then transfer to keg and lager for 6-8 weeks at about 35-40. Any comments? Does this sound OK? Do I need to let it rest at close to 50 after the D-rest before transferring to keg, or does the D-rest take care of the final 25% of fermentation?

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Sounds like a good yeast to use. I've never used that one before, but a 2 liter starter would be necessary, depending on the starting gravity. Pitch the yeast at about 45 and let it rise to 50 for primary fermentation for about 10-14 days, then raise the temp to 68-70 for a D-rest for about 2-3 days. Lager as close to freezing as you can get it; maybe around 34 for about 4-6 weeks, or as long as you can stand it....

Good luck!

Cheers!

Thanks for the advise. I think that I will skip the decoction. Please see my post on the yeast in the yeast/fermentation forum. I think that I may have killed it and may have to start over with the yeast starter. Not a good way to start! Oh well, live and learn!

I'm going for it... picked up the second oz of tett and am about to embark into the decoction mash process... Black friday will be a great day!!!!!

well, we brewed last night and did a single decoction. we did scorch a little hopefully it doesn't come through too much. One last question since this is my first lager. I pitched at (about 9pm last night at 70 and put it into the fermentation chamber to bring it down to 55. It's now been twelve hours and it's at 62 no visible activity in the airlock yet... I wasn't supposed to wait until there was activity to start bringing it down was I?

Grinch said:

well, we brewed last night and did a single decoction. we did scorch a little hopefully it doesn't come through too much. One last question since this is my first lager. I pitched at (about 9pm last night at 70 and put it into the fermentation chamber to bring it down to 55. It's now been twelve hours and it's at 62 no visible activity in the airlock yet... I wasn't supposed to wait until there was activity to start bringing it down was I?

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Probably want to do a diacetyl rest in case it put out any off flavored at that temp. I've had good luck letting mine cool for up to 24 hours before pitching.

greatplainsbrewer said:

Probably want to do a diacetyl rest in case it put out any off flavored at that temp. I've had good luck letting mine cool for up to 24 hours before pitching.

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I'm trying to look up what that means but-- in the mean time, it is now at 55 and really stinkin like funky sulfur.

Grinch said:

I'm trying to look up what that means but-- in the mean time, it is now at 55 and really stinkin like funky sulfur.

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The sulfur will dissipate with time. A diacetyl rest just means warming it up before you lager it. Maybe 62 F or so for a few days. It will help eliminate any diacetyl that may have formed earlier. What yeast did you use?

WLP830... 3 liter starter.