Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

The_Broodwich said:

I do most of my beers all-grain but I was just going off of what others on this thread have said about it not really being worth the trouble. I supposed depending on how good it turns out I could justify doing a 3 gal mash for 15 gals of finished product. :cross:

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If i had the capacity to ferment all 15 cool enough, id probably go with that. The 1 gallon mash is just ridiculous. but i havent checked yet to see how much better it is!

DoctorWho said:

Hey The Broodwich,

Slightly off topic, but I caught your piece in Vogue. Your PR department is awesome.

Enjoy your graff...it's the best cider I've tasted!

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Of course it comes to your house...WHEN YOU ORDER IT!


I just bottled the other day. Warm and uncarbed it tasted good but a bit tart. I'll give another update when it's cold and carbed.

I just finished my last bottle (always the best!) and it was really really great. The first bottles were awesome of course, but it really took about 2 months in the bottle for the torrified wheat to kick in and the tart character to fade out.

The last bottle was creamy, smooth, with a rich dense head. Awesome! Must brew more of this immediately.

I just sampled mine after 3 weeks in primary.. It tasted OK, not crazy about it.

Kind of regretting using wyeast 3068.. Anyone have good results doing this recipe with wyeast 3068?

I just pitched the yeast on my first batch of this cider!

Except.

I think I put 1/2 pound of torrified wheat on accident.

I was at the LHBS and buying a lot of grains in half pound increments. Cruise control ya know.

Damn it!

So, should I dump this one out? How bad is it gonna be with 8Xs the amount of torrified wheat?

In my batches its taken a while for the torrified wheat to really take effect, like by the 4th week you can really tell its there. I'd probably just try to drink it young, maybe not prime it too much. and pour it very very carefully haha. but no sense in pouring it out, its just an experiment right?

Devils_Chariot said:

I think I put 1/2 pound of torrified wheat on accident.

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If you have an open primary you could start another batch (you'll be glad you did anyway) leave out the torrified wheat and then combine the two. It's still a heck of a lot of wheat, but it will help.

Otherwise enjoy a frothy, frothy brew!

I think I'll start over. So I lose $40 in juice and grain, better than waiting 4 weeks to have 4 gallons of crappy beer.

I would atleast see what happens, when else would you purposefully want to experiment in the most insane amounts of head retention imaginable? but either way i hope it eitehr turns out okay, or your next batch is more successful

I agree with Sweetpoetatoe, just drink it early and enjoy My best bottle was at 8 weeks, but it was also the only bottle left since week 3 XD

Hmm, I think something is growing in my cider bottles... The taste is fine, no off flavors from when the bottles used to be clear (Did 1 week primary, 1 week secondary, has been in bottles for 6 weeks). At about week 4 in the bottle I noticed some sediment buildup, now like the bottom 1/4 of the 22oz. bottle has chunks of stuff floating inside. First pour is clear but after that lots of little small off-white chunks suspended in the beer. Never seen this before. Is it normal?

sweetpoetatoe said:

I would atleast see what happens, when else would you purposefully want to experiment in the most insane amounts of head retention imaginable? but either way i hope it eitehr turns out okay, or your next batch is more successful

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With all that wheat in there won't I have a lot of unconverted starch? Or do you think 1/2 pound won't matter. I don't know if the grain steeping step is going to "mash" the starch in the wheat into sugar. So I expect to have extra starch and protein in my cider.

I pitched the yeast last night and it's already bubbling away like crazy at 65F.

I feel bad about killing it now. I'll see how I feel when I go to the LHBS tomorrow. Maybe I'll buy the ingredients and save it for the next batch. I'll try and get it right this time.

Just out of curiosity, whats the harm in letting it sit and seeing what happens? Dumping a batch because you added too much of one ingredient seems assinine. I did a batch of this with 10 lbs of MO and its not the greatest thing in the world, but i know time in the bottle will make it better. If you need another bucket to brew in, buy one. Theres no reason to dump your whole batch because you added too much wheat. Ride it out.....you might have a new recipe on your hands. Otherwise, i'll pay you for the bucket and i'll take it off your hands.

Awwwww..... I just hate the waiting.

fine. FINE! I'll leave it. Because a stranger on the internet told me to.

Gawd i'm so weak.

so after 2 weeks primary & 1 wk in keg its got a pretty tart bite to it... can't wait to see how its doing tomorrow after another week in keg

sh00t said:

ok, this past weekend I brewed up;
1 lb caramel wheat
4 oz chocolate wheat
2 oz torrified wheat
1 lb amber DME
1 lb light DME
1/2 oz hallertauer
nottingham yeast
4 gallons tree top apple juice from wal-mart(s)
...............actually 3 gallons of AJ from one brand and 1 gallon of AJ from another just due to stocking issues, can't remember if TT or whatever was which

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Devils_Chariot said:

Awwwww..... I just hate the waiting.

fine. FINE! I'll leave it. Because a stranger on the internet told me to.

Gawd i'm so weak.

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Atta boy.

it will be different than it would have been otherwise, and possibley not as good (or maybe better, who knows). but i don't think that much wheat would ruin it.

Brewed 1/15/11
4 Gallons store bought AJ w/o Vitamin C
1 Gallon Water
2lbs Light DME
8oz C120 @ 155deg. for 30 min.
.5 oz Cluster 5% for 30 min.
Munton's Ale yeast
FG 1.004

I was disappointed when I first tasted it 1/28/11.
Kegged @ 41deg. and 10psi.
Tasted better on 2/28/11.
Turned CO2 down to 5psi.
The tartness is almost gone and this is getting REALLY good. 5/27/11.

Now, will it be less tart and more well balanced sooner if I up the Crystal 120 to a full pound? Or should I drop a gallon of AJ and add more DME and Water?

Noob yeast question: would a high attenuation yeast (pacman, WLP001) still work, or would they be too much? I've got most of the other ingredient differences down, but I am not yeast savvy yet. Thanks!

US-05 (WLP001) works fine for me

In 3 more days my over-wheated Graff should be finished fermenting. The high krausen has fallen, everything smells yeasty and apple like, and air lock is very slowly bubbling, maybe one bubble a minute.

So far- so good.

It's been fermenting at 65-67F.

What do you think I should do? Cold crash it on the yeast for a few days and bottle it, or rack to a secondary and cold condition it? I have friends coming over in three weeks, do you think it will be drinkable by then? (assuming no infections)

Assuming nothing goes wrong it will definitely be drinkable within 3 weeks, Ive drank it at 2 weeks and its been amazing. I've usually just brought it down to the 50s or so the day before or day of bottling, then just racked it into a bottling bucket. I've also had good experiences priming it with just plain ol cane sugar if you don't have any corn sugar. The only taste it gives off is a cidery one, which is fine in this case.
I would say even with the over wheat batch just to go along with things as usualy, except maybe be careful with the priming.

So I let this ferment for 2 weeks and sit in a bottle for a week. I popped a bottle open to see where I was at and we were fully carbonated. The problem was i thought it to be a bit dry almost vinegary type taste, it was drinkable tho. I gave my dad a glass and he said it had a sour taste to it. I didn't think so, bud my dad rarely drinks anything besides Bud Light so he isn't to well versed in the world of beverages. Anyways, my question is, does this cider finish on the dry and tart side? I can't see that I did anything wrong except maybe open up the bottle too soon. If I let this sit for another week or two will this characteristic change?

its varied for me from batch to batch, but its definitely a recipe that can change dramatically from week to week.

This recipe was the second cider I had ever made and the first one I tasted (of the homemade variety) and I thought it was a little tart and sour at first. This was after 3 weeks in the primary and 3 weeks in the bottle. After another month in the bottle it was very good.

For me, I was used to very sweet commercial ciders and while this recipe does make a very well balanced cider, it's a little dry. I say just give it some age time and see what you think.

But the vinegar taste might mean you got some infection or oxidation while brewing or bottling.

Has anyone that prefers the sweeter ciders tried mashing higher to acheive a sweeter finish?

My over wheated graff just finished fermenting. After a day of no airlock activity I took a gravity reading and got 1010. Now to cold crash it for a few days to clear it up and then on to bottling. I took a taste from the hydrometer vial and it was yeasty but had a nice dry cider taste, not too thin, and not too tart. No off flavors or high alcohols like I have tasted in some friend's ciders. I'm super psyched to see how it will taste in three weeks once its bottled and carbonated.

sweetpoetatoe said:

Has anyone that prefers the sweeter ciders tried mashing higher to acheive a sweeter finish?

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Would this assume an all grain recipe?

DoctorWho said:

This recipe was the second cider I had ever made and the first one I tasted (of the homemade variety) and I thought it was a little tart and sour at first. This was after 3 weeks in the primary and 3 weeks in the bottle. After another month in the bottle it was very good.

For me, I was used to very sweet commercial ciders and while this recipe does make a very well balanced cider, it's a little dry. I say just give it some age time and see what you think.

But the vinegar taste might mean you got some infection or oxidation while brewing or bottling.

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I'm not going to say vinegary as much as more like a red wine type taste, which to me has a sort of vinegar character too it.

Devils_Chariot said:

Would this assume an all grain recipe?

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Yeah i suppose it would. I Looked over the Grains for the original recipe and it just might not be enough to make a strong difference. You could also take out one lb of Dme and add 2.25 lbs of 2 row instead and try mashing that higher. So then it would still be a partial mash and you could probably do it in a bag fairly easily.

Apple is definetely more upfront after two weeks aging.

I made a label for my graff. Submitted for your review:

yes!

That is a great label...and 750ml serving size...that'll do a number on you.

My wife would like the graff I made to be just a touch sweeter (looks to be finished at 1.004). How much lactose do you think I should add?

I think with a cider, lactose is a bit heavy on the body, but i would add stevia sugar. its a basic sugar, no taste or body, but its unfermentable.
If you have lactose lying around, i would say its to you, or your wife's taste, but i would personally add no more than 2 oz.

just pitched... variations (based on what I had in house):
British ale yeast
1 lb light DME
1 lb dark brown sugar
malt - 12 oz melanoiden
hops - 0.5 oz fuggles (6.0%AA)

1.060 OG - delightful flavor!

thanks for the recipe....

Over-Wheated Graff Update:1 week in the bottle

fermentation ended 1.5 weeks ago.

In the bottle for 7 days. primed with Cooper carbonation drops.

First taste:

Moderate carbonation:

Nice dry cider taste

wheat is present, leaves a very mild cereal+yeast taste

no hop flavor or aroma, malt is mild mouth feel, no booziness.

But

Cider is very nice for a dry cider, think blackthorn with a bit more body.

Girlfriend who generally dislikes all alcoholic beverages except midori sour gives it a C+


We'll see what its like in another week and then at three weeks.

Im glad that turned out good, congratulations

Devils_Chariot said:

Over-Wheated Graff Update:1 week in the bottle

Girlfriend who generally dislikes all alcoholic beverages except midori sour gives it a C+

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C+! Alright. Give it a month (and some extra credit work) and it might get up to A-.

I am really amazed how well ciders do with time. I only wish I would let them age, but they keep getting poured down my throat for some reason