MM2 Mill powered with Garage Door Opener?

I bought a MM2 two weeks ago and now have the job of building a hopper/stand and motorizing it. I'm not so keen on the idea of a 1725rpm motor with a 12inch pulley on it. I'd prefer something more compact.

I haven't found a whole lot of information on using a garage door opener to power a mill. I found at http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=electric&qty=1&item=5-1677 which has the worm gear assembly to output 110RPM. (Little slower than MM's recommended 150-250 RPM, but I've read slower is better)

Working under the assumption that the output shaft is on the bottom, my thought was to crease and bend the metal plate 90 degrees up, and bolt this face downward making the shaft horizontal. I haven't decided whether a small sprocket/chain or direct drive would be better, or if this motor would even work. I realize garage door openers are designed for around 5 operations per hour, and milling would be like 5 minutes total (maybe over estimating. I'm only set up for 5G batches)

It's not too bad to hide the pulley half in the cabinet. I'll upload a video of mine.

I'm thinking you're going to strip the plastic worm gear in short order. Garage doors use counter-balance springs and don't really do that much work.

evandena said:

It's not too bad to hide the pulley half in the cabinet. I'll upload a video of mine.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PHzXBEfiCoQ

Click to expand...

You got that bad boy spark proofed? Grain dust, commonly known as flour, is quite explosive. It would be safer to have the motor above, IMO.

tektonjp said:

You got that bad boy spark proofed? Grain dust, commonly known as flour, is quite explosive. It would be safer to have the motor above, IMO.

Click to expand...

It's what they call "Totally Enclosed Fan Cooled Motor"

Necroing the thread a little, but I realized after burning up my drill that I have a spare 1/2 HP garage door opener that I might be able to harvest the motor out of. mrstevenund, did you manage to make this work with the garage door opener motor? How did it work?

No, this project got moved to the back burner, and I am still looking for a free garage door motor.

Any action on this since May? If not, $10 is pretty tempting for a mounted motor that's already geared down to the right RPM range (+$13 shipping). I might have to give it a try...

If the motor pukes, I'm only out $23. Anybody already been down this road?

No. I unfortunately didn't see any motors out (or had already been taken by scrap dealers) during our city's clean-up week. Between that and all my brewing equipment now in storage, it may be a while.

I went ahead and tried this out and so far, so good. Midwest forgot to ship the hopper along with my mill, so I'm waiting on that for a full test, but I was able to pour some wheat malt into the mill and start it up successfully. I'll post a few pics below, and will update once I've done a proper test. Can't confirm yet that this works without crushing a full batch, but it's looking good so far. If this ends up working, I'll post more pics on how it's built.

Mounted to an old stereo cabinet I picked up at goodwill:

Any update?

No, sorry, on vacation this week. Should have the hopper when I get back and will give this thing a full test. Will update this thread after.

wilconrad said:

No, sorry, on vacation this week. Should have the hopper when I get back and will give this thing a full test. Will update this thread after.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Looking forward to it.

wilconrad said:

No, sorry, on vacation this week. Should have the hopper when I get back and will give this thing a full test. Will update this thread after.

Click to expand...

Awesome! This looks like a good alternative to the HF low-speed drill. Would you be willing to share more details about how to hook everything up? Enjoy your vacation!

Sure thing, funnycreature, will post more details once I get home

I don't think you'll have enough power to crush with any type of load on it. It takes quite a bit of low end torque to get a MM2 going with any bit of grain in the hopper.

DrunkleJon said:

Necroing the thread a little, but I realized after burning up my drill that I have a spare 1/2 HP garage door opener that I might be able to harvest the motor out of. mrstevenund, did you manage to make this work with the garage door opener motor? How did it work?

Click to expand...

evandena said:

I don't think you'll have enough power to crush with any type of load on it. It takes quite a bit of low end torque to get a MM2 going with any bit of grain in the hopper.

Click to expand...

what type of power is required to run a mill? I thought i have seen a few on here with 1/2 HP motors running fine at ~200 RPM, geared down to 110RPM you would have even more torque than at 200 RPM

evandena said:

I don't think you'll have enough power to crush with any type of load on it. It takes quite a bit of low end torque to get a MM2 going with any bit of grain in the hopper.

Click to expand...

Might, might not. We'll see. For <$20, it's worth trying. It is a 1/2 HP motor with a capacitor start, so I'm a little more optimistic.

mattd2 said:

what type of power is required to run a mill? I thought i have seen a few on here with 1/2 HP motors running fine at ~200 RPM, geared down to 110RPM you would have even more torque than at 200 RPM

Click to expand...

My thoughts as well, Matt. Consensus seems to be 1/2 hp but I've seen several examples of 1/3 hp motors employed successfully. At 1/2 hp, this garage door motor should be sufficient to run the mill. Starting from a stop with a full hopper is a question mark, as is cooling (this motor has no fan, but cycle time is short in this application). Will test soon!

Has anyone used a 3PH motor with a VFD to regulate the speed? Would be very easy to implement and I have all the parts already in my woodworking shop.

[ame]http://youtu.be/5jVr03ujj8k[/ame]

That might be above most people (the VFD would be around $200) but it is fairly common in the tool world to run a 3PH motor with a VFD for speed control on tools like a drill or sander.

I have a Barley Crusher and run it with a drill, I won't invest the effort into motorizing my mill until I get a better mill...

Ben

automobiliben said:

Has anyone used a 3PH motor with a VFD to regulate the speed? Would be very easy to implement and I have all the parts already in my woodworking shop.

Video Link: http://youtu.be/5jVr03ujj8k

That might be above most people (the VFD would be around $200) but it is fairly common in the tool world to run a 3PH motor with a VFD for speed control on tools like a drill or sander.

I have a Barley Crusher and run it with a drill, I won't invest the effort into motorizing my mill until I get a better mill...

Ben

Click to expand...

If you've already got all the components to do this, would be an awesome setup! Would be quite costly for the rest of us though, not to mention that 3PH power isn't available to most.

Call around to some HVAC shops and see if they have an old furnace blower they'd like to get rid of cheap (or free). Those usually use a 1/3 to 1/2 HP cap start motor that you could pull out.

Have been thinking about the torque question. I think it should have enough. The reason they now have safety switches and torque adjustments on them is because they had enough power to kill a person if they got caught under the door.

By the way, it should have two dials on it for adjusting the up and down torque.

If it has plastic gears I might be concerned if they and the motor can hold up to continuous hi torque use. But I would say it is more than worth a try. When I get around to building a mill I think I know where I can get a free motor to try it out.

If it does not work out, watch for an electric ice cream maker at a yard sale or something, and give that a whirl............They are fairly stout.

MaxStout said:

Call around to some HVAC shops and see if they have an old furnace blower they'd like to get rid of cheap (or free). Those usually use a 1/3 to 1/2 HP cap start motor that you could pull out.

Click to expand...

But aren't starter motors designed for just that? Starting things? I seem to recall starter motors are made for short term high torque applications for durations. If you can get one for free it would be worth attempting though I fear they would burn up if you are attempting to crush more than a few pounds of grain.

DrunkleJon said:

But aren't starter motors designed for just that? Starting things? I seem to recall starter motors are made for short term high torque applications for durations. If you can get one for free it would be worth attempting though I fear they would burn up if you are attempting to crush more than a few pounds of grain.

Click to expand...

Nope. It's a blower motor. It is designed to operate a squirrel-cage blower continuously.

You might be confusing this with the starter capacitor which helps develop initial torque to quickly get the motor up to speed.

ah, wonderful. I was thinking more of a car starter motor which is designed for just the part of starting another one. Thanks for the correction. good idea.

Carlscan26 said:

Any update?

Click to expand...

Ran a full test of this thing this evening and milled a full batch of 50% Wheat, 50% Munich. I started it up from a stop with 10.5lb of malt in the hopper and it crushed it all without issue. Gap on the rollers was set to 0.030". The motor was hot to the touch by the time it was done, but not hot enough to be concerned about.

Attaching a video of the test

funnycreature said:

Awesome! This looks like a good alternative to the HF low-speed drill. Would you be willing to share more details about how to hook everything up? Enjoy your vacation!

Click to expand...

Here's what the output looks like on the motor assembly as it comes from Surplus Center:


I removed the shaft assembly (secured with a snap ring), then removed the sprocket:


The shaft doesn't stick out far, so I cut down the bushing and some of the plastic support structure to expose more of the shaft (this is what it looks like before being cut down):


Here's the bushing after I trimmed it down:

I've been watching this thread, I have about ten used openers laying around. I have a garage door business so I get lots of used ones back. Been thinking if doing this, but I haven't really seen the drawback to just using a drill. I usually just set my Barley Crusher on a bucket. Lot less storage space required than a dedicated stand

funnycreature said:

Awesome! This looks like a good alternative to the HF low-speed drill. Would you be willing to share more details about how to hook everything up? Enjoy your vacation!

Click to expand...

As far as wiring, the motor has 4 wires coming out of it, here's how to wire it up:

White - ground - connect directly to input from outlet
Orange - not used
Red & Blue - connect to capacitor as delivered (power to red drives CW, power to blue drives CCW)

I then connected the incoming line voltage to a switch, and connected the hot side of that to the capacitor spade that resulted in the mill turning the correct direction. If you wire it up and the mill is turning backwards, just move the hot input from the switch to the other side of the capacitor.

I also grounded the motor & switch to the ground wire on the input cable. Here's a schematic:


And here's what it looks like:

wilconrad said:

As far as wiring, the motor has 4 wires coming out of it, here's how to wire it up:

White - ground - connect directly to input from outlet
Orange - not used
Red & Blue - connect to capacitor as delivered (power to red drives CW, power to blue drives CCW)

I then connected the incoming line voltage to a switch, and connected the hot side of that to the capacitor spade that resulted in the mill turning the correct direction. If you wire it up and the mill is turning backwards, just move the hot input from the switch to the other side of the capacitor.

Click to expand...

Looking at the schemo...why not wire a double-throw switch, so that you can change directions. If something gets jammed, just switch the other direction to back it out.

automobiliben said:

Has anyone used a 3PH motor with a VFD to regulate the speed? Would be very easy to implement and I have all the parts already in my woodworking shop.

http://youtu.be/5jVr03ujj8k

That might be above most people (the VFD would be around $200) but it is fairly common in the tool world to run a 3PH motor with a VFD for speed control on tools like a drill or sander.

I have a Barley Crusher and run it with a drill, I won't invest the effort into motorizing my mill until I get a better mill...

Ben

Click to expand...

I have a VFD that I wired up to a 240v 4 prong receptacle, and all of my machinery has a 4 prong 240v plug wired to em so I can plug and play multiple stuff and not have multiple VFD's. That being said, I have a spare motor C-face bolted to a 90deg gearbox that I believe is 5-1 (I think, I dont remember, have to look) so I can run the motor at a decent pace to get to 200rpm... Other thing is the motor is 3hp so I *know* that stalling is not going to be an issue. Planned install is in December when I get home. If you had a 1hp motor and no gearbox the only thing you might run into is the motor getting hot from not spinning fast enough for the fan to be effective if its TEFC. I would guess that you would be running at 10hz give or take... Just an uneducated guess.

------THREAD JACK DISENGAGE------

wilconrad said:

As far as wiring, the motor has 4 wires coming out of it, here's how to wire it up:

White - ground - connect directly to input from outlet
Orange - not used
Red & Blue - connect to capacitor as delivered (power to red drives CW, power to blue drives CCW)

I then connected the incoming line voltage to a switch, and connected the hot side of that to the capacitor spade that resulted in the mill turning the correct direction. If you wire it up and the mill is turning backwards, just move the hot input from the switch to the other side of the capacitor.

I also grounded the motor & switch to the ground wire on the input cable. Here's a schematic:

And here's what it looks like:

Click to expand...

How much was the shaft coupling, and where did you get it?
And if heat became and issue you could always put a top on the motor "box and wire in a 120V fan to run when the motor is running.

Thanks much for the updates and pics!

One small note: I think you mean that the white wire goes to the neutral inbound not ground as that's a separate wire right?

Carlscan26 said:

Thanks much for the updates and pics!

One small note: I think you mean that the white wire goes to the neutral inbound not ground as that's a separate wire right?

Click to expand...

I think he means that both the white nad ground connect straight to their respective cables from the power cord

Carlscan26 said:

Thanks much for the updates and pics!

One small note: I think you mean that the white wire goes to the neutral inbound not ground as that's a separate wire right?

Click to expand...

Correct

mattd2 said:

How much was the shaft coupling, and where did you get it?
And if heat became and issue you could always put a top on the motor "box and wire in a 120V fan to run when the motor is running.

Click to expand...

Shaft coupling was ~$8 at Grainger. It's 1/2" on the garage door opener output, 3/8" on the mill.

MaxStout said:

Looking at the schemo...why not wire a double-throw switch, so that you can change directions. If something gets jammed, just switch the other direction to back it out.

Click to expand...

True, if plugging becomes an issue I'll do that. I had a spare single switch laying around so used it.

wilconrad said:

True, if plugging becomes an issue I'll do that. I had a spare single switch laying around so used it.

Click to expand...

Sure, you use what you have.

I have had an occasional feed jam on my MM2 (motorized), usually due to a kernel getting jammed in between the rollers, and the teeth can't grab it. I have to shut off power and turn back the pulley by hand to dislodge it. It would be nice to just flip the switch to reverse direction a few turns.