Snobby Homebrew Supply Shop Owner

I haven't been in a LHBS in 15 years. Before the guys at the store were super helpful and knowledgeable. They were always itching to show off a new gadget or recommend some seasonal ingrediant. Now I live 3 hours from my LHBS I walked in for the first time today. I Mainly wanted a drilled stopper for my starter flask and a lb or two of DME. I also am planning my next couple of brews which I think will be another raspberry wheat and an IPA.

So I tell the store owner I have some efficiency issues. (Which is why I need the DME) And I'm curious if he can mill grain fine for me. I also tell him I just brewed a raspberry wheat (I wanted to ask about his flavor extract) I get side tracked and ask about IPA recipes he had and points to a book. Anyway the book is kinda of a pain to go through so I say I think ill pass on the kit. He then tells yeah thanks for coming in and telling me about the beers you didnt buy from me. I guess I felt bad about talking to him I paid for my DME and some Carb drops and left forgetting my stopper.
I now am mad because he didn't offer any suggestions and he made be feel like I was pulling him away from his conversation at the bar. Bad customer service I don't think ill go back. I guess he just opened a HBS to hang out with his friends.

Foxtrot,
Do you go by ZTFAB on another site? Just wondered.
Bob

Negatron

Ya, but you have to see his point of view. He is probably busy and has lots of people ask questions and buy 2 dollars of stuff. Some days I get cranky too, its all about walking in their shoes for a day dude.

You know you're right. People are just human. To be honest I probably did ramble on about brewing because I don't have have anyone to talk to about it. I was excited to check out a HBS and get a suggestion about an IPA to brew. But all he did was point to a book. The guy had a little serving bar and he was just talking and drinking with his customers. I would have bought a recipe kit if he took the time to make a personal recommendation. I spent $12 was planning on spending $50. Why would you actually tell a customer thanks for coming in and wasting my time? I just don't get it. ...I guess I just wanted to post to vent. I was mad that he made me feel like a jackass for just asking some questions. And I was curious on the vibe at other HBS. I can remember the last LHBS in Portland, Oregon had awesome customer service. I had a stuck fermentation and one of the guys made me a starter.

It all depends on the day. Some days I am a chatty Kathy too. Others not so much. People are human, sometimes we forget that.

It would be interesting to hear the other guy's side to this story.....

lgilmore said:

It would be interesting to hear the other guy's side to this story.....

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I agree. It sux that you were treated that way, but maybe it was a tough customer service kind of day.

When you're back in town, maybe give them another shot and you'll be pleasantly surprised. First impressions aren't accurate all the time.

... but if service sux on round 2, then washing your hands of him might be the best thing to do.

Yeah I'll try again next time I'm into town probably. He did give me his card and tell him to call if I needed anything.

I guess the more I think about it. He thought, I came in talked his ear off and wasn't going to buy anything. When I asked him for to bag up some items his demeanor did change a little. Ah well, I'll see next time.

I dont know, foxtrot, I think you were absolutely right to be pissed. What was he doing before you got there? He was chatting, not selling anything, to his friends. So his choices were idle chatter with friends and idle chatter with a customer. Idle chatter with a customer should win every time.

This is why the Jose Cuevo girl in the half shirt and nothing skirt doesnt get bent out of shape that you arent buying a bottle after a sample. She knows you're going to have her pleasant presentation in the back of your mind next time you buy tequila.

Now if there was a line of guys behind you trying to buy carboys and kits and hundreds of dollars in equiptment and you were in the way, Id get it.

I'd give him a second shot too, but the fact of the matter is he was being an insufferable @$$. Just my $0.02.

f0xtr0t said:

Now I live 3 hours from my LHBS...

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I would drop the "L" in LHBS. Can't imagine that's ever worth the trip.

No excuse for poor customer service, but your experience is not uncommon. They get tons of people who come in talking about what they're going to brew and ask for advice, but really just want to hear themselves talk and have someone tell them how awesome their next beer sounds. So when you come in with actual questions, it's easy to take the easy route and point to a book. I say you take the easy route and order online, save yourself the trip.

The excuse about getting a bunch of people in asking questions and buying a couple of bucks worth of stuff is a cop out. So is saying he had a bad day, or you were wasting his time, or any other excuse to try to justify poor service from a small business owner. The only thing an typical LHBS has to offer is service and convenience. Otherwise, why are you going out of your way to drive to his store when you could just as easily get on the internet from the comfort of your home and have the stuff delivered to your door step. LHBS's make their living off of small purchases. They know they typically can't compete on price on larger items. They typically carry larger items, but that's not where they make their money. They would rather have a guy that comes in regularly and spends a few bucks every time he's there than a guy who buys a Blichmann burner one time and never comes back. I actually have a choice of a few LHBS's in my area, and I shop one specifically because the service is better. Remember he's not doing you a favor by allowing you to spend money in his shop.

If he's busy, feels like you're wasting his time, etc, all he has to do is say "I would love to chat, but I have some other business to attend to. If you have any specific questions i can assist with, just let me know."

Saying "thanks for telling me about the beers you didn't buy from me" is not a mature way to handle things. Yes, he's human, so yes, he is allowed to have bad days. But as a business owner, you should be prepared to accept the fact that if you take your bad days out on customers, you will be less likely to have customers in the future.

JJL said:

The excuse about getting a bunch of people in asking questions and buying a couple of bucks worth of stuff is a cop out. So is saying he had a bad day, or you were wasting his time, or any other excuse to try to justify poor service from a small business owner. The only thing an typical LHBS has to offer is service and convenience. Otherwise, why are you going out of your way to drive to his store when you could just as easily get on the internet from the comfort of your home and have the stuff delivered to your door step. LHBS's make their living off of small purchases. They know they typically can't compete on price on larger items. They typically carry larger items, but that's not where they make their money. They would rather have a guy that comes in regularly and spends a few bucks every time he's there than a guy who buys a Blichmann burner one time and never comes back. I actually have a choice of a few LHBS's in my area, and I shop one specifically because the service is better. Remember he's not doing you a favor by allowing you to spend money in his shop.

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This.

Retail is all about customer service. Only point of going to a LHBS is to buy small things where shipping isn't worth it and to chat to the owner.

You gotta understand he's in business to make money. Period. If he enjoys chatting with people about homebrew, and also wants to help people enjoy the hobby, that's a nice bonus. And a bonus that will likely also make him more money.

But he also has to understand that you are a customer. He can't force you to buy anything, and he cannot decide what you want to brew, how you want to brew it, and how much money you want to spend, where, you get your supplies.

Remember he is "offering" a service to you. There are plenty of great online stores who are not rude. There are several very good places online to chat about beer. A lot of the people at those places are nicer than the LHBS dude.

If you just want to hang out and talk about beer, why not go back and sit at the bar with the rest of those guys and start chatting. He might like you more if he doesn't anticipate you buying stuff...

My beloved SWMBO made the rookie error of offering to buy a bottle of the lovely kit wine the HBS owner was sampling out to her. "I can't sell it to you by law, but I can fill your glass up again for free!"

Guess what HBS I'm going back to next time Im at her parents' place?

lgilmore said:

It would be interesting to hear the other guy's side to this story.....

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BS.

You walk into a store, and get treated like a schmuck, and it'd be interesting to hear why? Baloney.

Sounds like a store you should avoid. There are far better stores, and more importantly, far better store keepers out there.

Where is this LHBS? You can just tell the name of the town if you don't want to give the name! I'm just wondering if this is a place I know about, and have heard the same from some friends.

Gotta agree with most everyone here saying "we're all human" isn't an excuse.

If you're a responsible business owner, you never poo all over your customers, no matter what size purchase they're making. No excuses, period. A $12 sale is better than no sale at all.

I'd never go back, personally. And I probably wouldn't have even bought anything from him at all if that was his attitude.

PistolsAtDawn said:

Gotta agree with most everyone here saying "we're all human" isn't an excuse.

If you're a responsible business owner, you never poo all over your customers, no matter what size purchase they're making. No excuses, period. A $12 sale is better than no sale at all.

I'd never go back, personally. And I probably wouldn't have even bought anything from him at all if that was his attitude.

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Agreed! When I was younger I walked into a local guitar shop with the intention of trying and buying a bass guitar on the spot. The guy there was totally blowing me off. Anytime I asked him for help it was a big huff and puff ordeal, until he finally said something to the effect of "hey man, you can't just come in here and play all of our stuff." So I said, "ok, I guess I'll spend this cash (showed him the stack of 20's in my pocket) somewhere else," and walked out. The dude almost fell out of his chair trying to stop me as I walked out.

F you, buddy. You have no time for me, as a paying customer? I have no intention of spending my money here!

Yooper said:

Where is this LHBS? You can just tell the name of the town if you don't want to give the name! I'm just wondering if this is a place I know about, and have heard the same from some friends.

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YES! Out the guy! We can all boycott his store!

Yeah 3 hours is a long way. I drive 3 hours for anything I cant get at walmart. Maybe I should just stick to what I've been doing. (Reading articles/posts on the internet and buying from Austin Homebrew.

I had to pick my dad's car from the repair shop at a local dealership. At the time I was young and had long hair (mulletish). As I approached a young yuppy salesperson with a long dark coat and sunglasses (yeah, it's northern Michigan dude.) and said, "I need..." He interjected with, "A haircut?"

Uh, no, actually I was going to ask about the parts and service department, but since you don't mind being kind of rude to a potential customer, I'll go ahead and NEVER buy from your place again. Oh, and can you now point me to the owner so I can make sure he knows about our friendly little exchange?

To be fair, I probably did need a haircut, but that's beside the point. He can think it in his head all he wants, but if he wants to sell cars, he should bite his tongue and make a joke about it to his boyfriend later.

The only "benefit" of a LHBS over the internet HBS like Northern Brewer, Brewmasters Warehouse, Midwest, AHS, etc is the human interaction that sometimes leads to a more personalized and better customer service.

Most LHBS stores cannot compete with the internet stores on price and variety of stock. If your LHBS has poor customer service, they will not be in business long.

Your time and money are valuable. If your local business doesn't want it then give it someone else. That's why I use Brewmaster's Warehouse. The only thing I don't like is their packing peanuts.

I'm partial to the flour based packing peanuts. Its fun to make them dissolve. I am still 6 years old in that regard.

Ohhhh... I get it, its a gay joke!

Homercidal said:

He can think it in his head all he wants, but if he wants to sell cars, he should bite his tongue and make a joke about it to his boyfriend later.

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Darwin18 said:

That's why I use Brewmaster's Warehouse. The only thing I don't like is their packing peanuts.

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I thought I was the only one who thought this! I hate those things. I know I've gotten AHS shipments and they used the corn-based ones that dissolve. Almost tempted to switch allegiance based on that alone!

I have pay-by-the-bag trash removal, and nothing steams me worse than having to fill a bag that that crap!

"He can think it in his head all he wants, but if he wants to sell cars, he should bite his tongue and make a joke about it to his boyfriend later.'

At this point, are you any different than that salesman?

All I can think of after reading your post is "pot meet kettle".

lgilmore said:

"He can think it in his head all he wants, but if he wants to sell cars, he should bite his tongue and make a joke about it to his boyfriend later.'

At this point, are you any different than that salesman?

All I can think of after reading your post is "pot meet kettle".

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Well, he's saying it here, after the fact, and not to that guy's face. We don't know that guy's identity and he's well within his right to be annoyed by the salesman's unwarranted rudeness to him and to make light of it by calling him gay in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

So no, not the the same situation.

Those sort of people generally do poorly in the long run. They put themselves out of a job. And if the owner of that shop practices that sort of customer service on a regular basis, he can expect to line up in the food stamps line in a short amount of time. I don't have a LHBS, but I will still visit others when I'm out of town and pay more for some things there than I would if I ordered online. So long as the customer service is decent, that is.

lgilmore said:

At this point, are you any different than that salesman?

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Sure - he's not selling cars.

Just out of curiousity, where in the great state of Tejas was this store located at?

San Antonio. I like walking into a brick and mortar store. There is another HBS in San Antonio ill try there next time. I don't think the shop was bad. If I would have come in with an ingredient list I'm sure he would of helped gather the ingredients quickly. I just didn't get the personable service I wanted plus a snide comment. I'm sure the Guy has done good business before. It looks like the shop has been there for a while.

I use HomeBrew Party in SA and have had good results over there. They seem to be straight forward on ingredients and helpful when asking questions or for assistance.

There is another store here in SA, but I haven't personally been there. From what other homebrewers have said, it isn't a very pleasant experience though.

PistolsAtDawn said:

Well, he's saying it here, after the fact, and not to that guy's face. We don't know that guy's identity and he's well within his right to be annoyed by the salesman's unwarranted rudeness to him and to make light of it by calling him gay in a tongue-in-cheek fashion.

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well, if you want to talk about rights, the salesman was "within his rights" as well.

I will say that implying that the guy is gay in a way that appears to be intended as an insult is not very considerate towards the gay people on this board. But I digress.

"I will say that implying that the guy is gay in a way that appears to be intended as an insult is not very considerate towards the gay people on this board. But I digress"

Bingo.

The "haircut" might have also been an attempt at humor. Granted it's as poor as the gay slur, as neither are that funny when presented to strangers for the first time. thus pot meet kettle. two poor attempts at humor to an unknown crowd.

I just brewed a raspberry wheat

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Do tell. I'm thinking of making my AG wheat a raspberry or cherry. Real fruit though.

My base is 13 pounds of wheat.

My LHBS is great and also one of the biggest online stores out there. I always get friendly people who will spend as much time with you as you need, and go out of their way to get something from the back, or look something up for you if they do not have it in stock. Their prices are a bit higher than some, but they explain that on their website. It is part of their philosphy that they won't undersell, because they provide their employees with better than average benefits which I appreciate.

My only complaint is that while everyone is great in the customer service dept. Nobody has ever asked me about my brewing setup, or what I am going to brew this weekend. We talk about local bars, music etc., but never about brewing. It is cool that they have nice young people that are helpful and competant. They do miss out on a lot of sales though. If one person asked me about my set up and when I was going to get into kegging they could easily pursade me to turn my $50.00 dollar purchase on my debit card to $400.00 on my credit card.

Brewing is a lot of work. Apparently selling brewing equipment also gets as monotonous.

The real question to ask yourself is, what's gayer: A: a male having a boyfriend, or B: brewing a raspberry wheat.








P.S. just kidding.

f0xtr0t said:

San Antonio. I like walking into a brick and mortar store. There is another HBS in San Antonio ill try there next time. I don't think the shop was bad. If I would have come in with an ingredient list I'm sure he would of helped gather the ingredients quickly. I just didn't get the personable service I wanted plus a snide comment. I'm sure the Guy has done good business before. It looks like the shop has been there for a while.

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You know what? I'd probably be treating even worse than you were. I've been into TWO homebrew stores, ever, where I was treated well.

I've gone into a number of homebrew stores, throughout the country as I travel a bit. And I've been ignored, and sometimes been talked down to if spoken to at all.

I've had 20-somethings say to me, "Hey little lady, are you interested in learning to make beer?" as I've walked through aisles, but most often I'm completely ignored.

My answer to that question, if asked, is something like, "Oh, no. I'm not interested in a beginner's kit, thanks."

A minute later: "I was just looking for a small burner for my secondary MLT, so I could upgrade my 1/2 barrel all-electric indoor HERMS because it's hard to do a triple decoction with the vessels I have." Then leave.

I actually DID walk out without a thing in in Akron's "Grape and Granary". I went in with my dad who went for the road trip with me to visit Hoppin' Frog Brewery. Three clerks fell over my dad, but ignored me totally. When my dad pointed to me and said, "I'm with her, she is looking for something", one did approach me and ask if he could help. I said I needed some carastan as well as some base grain and he pointed at the room in general and said their bins of grain were "all over". And they were- but in no sort of order and I didn't feel like spending an hour looking for a pound or two of crystal malt. And no way was I going to purchase the sacks I had planned.

I said, well, then, I need a pH meter. He sort of rolled his eyes and went behind the counter and grabbed one from the shelf behind put it down on the counter. When I asked the accuracy of it, he had to go ask, and the second guy was pretty condescending to me.

So I left. It happens all the time!

Northern Brewer treated me well, and so did Midwest Brewing Supplies. I spend over $500 on each of those walk-in trips, though, so maybe it's better to be ignored!

I found the same type of attitude when I was into saltwater fish tanks. The same thing that is happening to LHBS is happening to LFS (local fish store) in that they are being out competed by online retailers. The LFS I used to frequent had a disgruntled owner. Besides the noobs that go in there all the time I'm sure they are pissed off that they are losing money.

Needless to say the store closed.

My LHBS owner is pretty nice guy though.