Special/Best Bitter Recipe Review

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3 Dog Brew

3 Dog Brew

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Please review the following recipe and comment. I have made this a couple of times and it's "good" just not "great". Any feedback would be appreciated. BTW the addition of Victory Malt is new and I haven't tried it yet. I use Maris Otter as my base malt.

I have done a search for "special bitter" and got several hundred results all with no reference to this style of ale. :(

Output courtesy of BeerSmith. I don't know how you do this, there must be an easier way. Replacing spaces with underbars is a PITA! :drunk:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.82 gal
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 15.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount_____Item_________________________Type_____% or IBU
6.25 lbs____Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)___Grain_____65.36 %
1 lbs______Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)Grain___10.89 %
1 lbs______Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)____________Grain___10.89 %
5.9 oz_____Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)__________Grain____4.03 %
4.0 oz_____Special B Malt (180.0 SRM)_________Grain____2.72 %
0.75 oz____Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min)_________Hops___15.1 IBU
0.50 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min)Hops__11.2 IBU
0.25 oz____Fuggles [4.50 %] (30 min)_________Hops____2.6 IBU
0.25 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min)Hops____2.9 IBU
0.25 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min)Hops____1.1 IBU
1.00 tsp___Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)
5.0 oz_____Tate & Lyles Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM)_Sugar___3.37 %
1 Pkgs_____English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)
[Starter 1000ml]


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8.87 lb
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Step Time___Name___________Description__________________Step Temp
75 min______Saccharification__Add 2.77 gal of water at 159.1 F_148.0 F
10 min______Mash Out_______Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min_____168.0 F
 
Before I go into how I'd approach this, answer the following questions:

What about the recipe makes it "good" just not "great"?
Does it lack something?
Do you want a certain flavor, aroma, color, what?
Is there a flaw which needs to be removed?

Otherwise I'll be making stabs in the dark, which doesn't really help.

Cheers!

Bob
 
I'd tone the specialty grains down and up the base. I'd ditch the syrup and maybe the special B too.
My favorite ratio so far for that style has been:
80% base
10% Munich
5% Cara60
2.5% Biscuit
2.5% Aromatic

That's with a BU:GU of 0.65, which is a bit lower than yours.
 
3 Dog Brew said:
Please review the following recipe and comment. I have made this a couple of times and it's "good" just not "great". Any feedback would be appreciated. BTW the addition of Victory Malt is new and I haven't tried it yet. I use Maris Otter as my base malt.

I have done a search for "special bitter" and got several hundred results all with no reference to this style of ale. :(

Output courtesy of BeerSmith. I don't know how you do this, there must be an easier way. Replacing spaces with underbars is a PITA! :drunk:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.82 gal
Estimated OG: 1.043 SG
Estimated Color: 15.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount_____Item_________________________Type_____% or IBU
6.25 lbs____Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (3.0 SRM)___Grain_____65.36 %
1 lbs______Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)Grain___10.89 %
1 lbs______Victory Malt (25.0 SRM)____________Grain___10.89 %
5.9 oz_____Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)__________Grain____4.03 %
4.0 oz_____Special B Malt (180.0 SRM)_________Grain____2.72 %
0.75 oz____Fuggles [4.50 %] (60 min)_________Hops___15.1 IBU
0.50 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min)Hops__11.2 IBU
0.25 oz____Fuggles [4.50 %] (30 min)_________Hops____2.6 IBU
0.25 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min)Hops____2.9 IBU
0.25 oz____Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min)Hops____1.1 IBU
1.00 tsp___Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min)
5.0 oz_____Tate & Lyles Golden Syrup (0.0 SRM)_Sugar___3.37 %
1 Pkgs_____English Ale (White Labs #WLP002)
[Starter 1000ml]


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8.87 lb
----------------------------
Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Light Body
Step Time___Name___________Description__________________Step Temp
75 min______Saccharification__Add 2.77 gal of water at 159.1 F_148.0 F
10 min______Mash Out_______Heat to 168.0 F over 10 min_____168.0 F
Click to expand...

I have one word for you: Simplify! Get rid of most of the specialty malts and use a more basic hop schedule. I suspect you have fallen into the common homebrew recipe trap of "more must be better".

Here are my specific suggestions: Step up the pale malt, reduce the medium crystal to a half pound, eliminate the victory and aromatic using that weight for more pale malt, lose the Special-B and sub an ounce of chocolate malt if you want deeper color, increase the amount of sugar to 10% if you are going to use it, use two hop additions of 90 and 10 minutes keeping the IBUs at the same 32 rate.

Something like this:

9 lbs UK pale malt
.5 lb medium crystal
1 oz chocolate malt
1 lb plain sugar, or Lyles'

90 min hops: 2 oz Fuggles (or Goldings or WGV or 1 oz Challenger)
10 minute hops: 1 oz Goldings
 
Sometimes "less really is more". I just made a bitter using just Marris Otter and British crystal 80L. I had a taste tonight and It's pretty flat and there's still a lot of yeast in suspension (It has only been in the keg a couple of days) but it tastes great already. I promised myself that I wouldn't touch it again for at least a week.
 
IMO, Special B has no place in an English beer. Wrong caramel flavor. Maris Otter, dark crystal, medium crystal, biscuit malt, and your in buisness. I'm not sold on sugar additions either; makes for a watery beer.
 
Au contraire, sir. Don't fear the sugar. The blokes who get paid to brew Bitter don't; why should you? Have a dekko at my Bitter recipe.

I'll agree with the Special B comment, and also with those who recommend simplification.

I still want to hear from the OP, though...

Bob
 
I owe you some replies:

I didn't know how to respond to the first reply until reading the rest of the replies. I think everyone has picked up on what makes this beer good and not "great". Where I was going for layered complexity with all the specialty grains, what I got was "muddy" and I think everyone picked up on that.

Special B and Victory malt addition were right out of BYO some time ago and this recipe has evolved over time. If Special B doesn't belong in here for the reasons stated, I can't see how Munich malt does either. Am I missing something?

So far, I'm leaning to the recommendations of BigEd.
9 lbs UK pale malt
.5 lb medium crystal
1 oz chocolate malt
1 lb plain sugar, or Lyles'

90 min hops: 2 oz Fuggles (or Goldings or WGV or 1 oz Challenger)
10 minute hops: 1 oz Goldings
Click to expand...

If I were to evaluate myself as a brewer and how this recipe came into being what it is, I'd say that I was adding additional malts to compensate for flaws in my water, techniques and/or processes and I don't need them anymore since I've figured all that out. At least I'd like to think I have. :D
 
3 Dog Brew said:
I didn't know how to respond to the first reply until reading the rest of the replies. I think everyone has picked up on what makes this beer good and not "great". Where I was going for layered complexity with all the specialty grains, what I got was "muddy" and I think everyone picked up on that.
Click to expand...

It's really, really hard to actually pull off 'layered complexity'. There are so many complex things going on in beers with the most basic of ingredients lists, when you start to complicate one subset of that list - or add another subset entirely - you stand an excellent chance of screwing things up. ;)

Look at Belgian-Style Tripel. Five ingredients: Pils malt, sugar, hops, water, yeast. And a well-made Tripel is incredibly complex! Now, start adding more ingredients to that. Try adding five different malts. Try adding five different malts before really thinking through how each malt is going to interact with the yeast, the hops, the water. Now determine how the melange of malts will interact with each other.

You've just increased your potential for screwup by a factor of five. Not a pretty sight!

Yeah, you can achieve 'layered complexity' with a kitchen-sink grist. But it's not likely, not without a considerable amount of thought. Better to brew a very, very simple recipe over and over until you get it exactly right. Then add one variable at a time. That's real 'dialing in' or tweaking.

Special B and Victory malt addition were right out of BYO some time ago and this recipe has evolved over time. If Special B doesn't belong in here for the reasons stated, I can't see how Munich malt does either. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

I don't think it does, no. Munich, Victory, Aromatic - these all accentuate the malt aspects of the beer. Bitter, Special or otherwise, doesn't need that. It needs a certain amount of malt aroma with Crystal-malt notes. Maris Otter and 60L Crystal will do that. There should be a firm bitterness, some UK-variety hops flavor and aroma, some malt in the mouth (again, Maris Otter will supply that), and it should finish dry (there's the adjunct at work).

So far, I'm leaning to the recommendations of BigEd.
Click to expand...

Good idea. ;)

If I were to evaluate myself as a brewer and how this recipe came into being what it is, I'd say that I was adding additional malts to compensate for flaws in my water, techniques and/or processes and I don't need them anymore since I've figured all that out. At least I'd like to think I have. :D
Click to expand...

Learning should never cease. I've been brewing on a variety of levels for 15 years, and I'm stunned regularly by the amount of stuff I don't know!

Cheers,

Bob
 
Everyone has good advice. I'd break your original recipe down to something simple because you've already established a base that is good. Brew something like BigEd's and you'll be able to tell what you miss (or don't) and it will allow you to better look at process (water, etc).

That said, I've made a bitter with Special B along with C55-75L and while I'm no authority, I like it. 4 oz is not going to kill anything, it's similar to C120 or even british extra dark crystal 135-160L. It all depends on what you prefer. However, a stronger caramel presence may be better suited for a stronger bitter. Keep crystal (whatever varieties you use) to around 5% total and you'll be okay.
 
One last question on the BigEd edition, hmm new name? Big Ed's Best Bitter?

On the Chocolate Malt, would you use British Chocolate or American? I have both on hand for ... other reasons. There is a distinct difference in flavor profile. I guess I could start with one and then brew the same beer with the other variety.

The "other" reason:
I made an absolutely brilliant porter once. Just once. This was the one and only time I horded my own beer and consumed the entire 5 gallon keg by myself over 3-4 months. I took good notes but what I didn't know at the time was that there were two varieties of Chocolate malt. I had assumed that London style Porter would call for British Chocolate so that is how I've been making it assuming that the LHBS gave me that when I asked for Chocolate malt. It has never come out the same. So, I need to make the same old Porter recipe with American Chocolate and see if that is the "missing link" in my lost brew.
 
You've had good suggestions so far and agree on the point of simplifying the recipe. Big Ed's recipe is very similar to the recipe I'm working with in trying to perfect my "house" special bitter. The only changes I would make is to drop the 10 minute hop addition from 1 oz to something more like 0.25-0.5 oz. I have found that in small amounts like that, you get that wonderful floral, almost sweet character from goldings, whereas in higher amounts, grass and straw take over. The other, and maybe most important change, would be to switch to ringwood yeast. That did more for my bitters than any other single thing. The flavor is quintessentially british. The Fuller's strain is bland in comparison.

So in summary, if I were doing it, I'd go with Big Ed's recipe, but drop the 10 min hops to 10-15g. And I'd use the ringwood yeast. And I can almost guarantee you, you'll be amazed by the result.
 
Ringwood! Ringwood! RAH RAH RAH!

:D

I <3 Ringwood. But then I have a looooooong experience in its care and feeding. It's a finicky little bugger, very sensitive to environmental influences. It also requires a diacetyl rest (or some few days in primary after the initial ferment is over) to clear up the butterscotch.

Cheers!

Bob
 
completely agree with BigEd. simplicity is key.

i had a bitter that was just MO and simpsons medium. turned out fantastic. i used thames valley II when it was available and i'm kicking myself that I didn't harvest it.

i'd run with his recipe and see how that turns out.
 
Revised Recipe here: http://www.3dogbrew.com/3db/recipes/recipes_9.htm

Sorry, I'm lazy and it was much easier to host the html output of BeerSmith rather than copying and pasting.

2 things: The amount of malt specified puts this recipe in the ESB range and secondly, to simplify ingredient inventory, could I change the hopping schedule to be 1 oz Fuggles and 3/4oz Goldings for 90 minutes and the 10 minute addition of 1/4oz Goldings allows me to use even amounts of hops (rather than having 3/4oz of Goldings sitting around in my fridge until I brew this beer again?
 
3 Dog Brew said:
Revised Recipe here: http://www.3dogbrew.com/3db/recipes/BigEdsEsb.htm

Sorry, I'm lazy and it was much easier to host the html output of BeerSmith rather than copying and pasting.

2 things: The amount of malt specified puts this recipe in the ESB range and secondly, to simplify ingredient inventory, could I change the hopping schedule to be 1 oz Fuggles and 3/4oz Goldings for 90 minutes and the 10 minute addition of 1/4oz Goldings allows me to use even amounts of hops (rather than having 3/4oz of Goldings sitting around in my fridge until I brew this beer again?
Click to expand...

That hopping schedule would be fine. My opinion on the late addition is different from the earlier poster in that a full ounce will not cause any problems as well as yield a bit more hop flavor. Re Ringwood yeast, I enjoy beers made with the strain but it is not for everyone. Ringwood is a notorious producer of diacetyl and there is virtually no middle ground on individual opinions about the strain. My suggestion is to use the yeast you normally do for similar beers on this batch so a new large variable won't be introduced into the equation. By all means try the Ringwood sometime but for now concentrate on the basic recipe and get it where you want it to be. :mug:
 
I don't know if other people feel this way or not but every time I try an english bitter style beer made my a commercial US brewery, I'm ALWAYS disappointed. I mean, how hard can it really be, right? Nothing ever comes close to what you get in England. Then I bought Graham Wheeler's BYOBRA and started frequenting jimsbeerkit (a british homebrew forum). That led me to start experimenting with lower late hop amounts, and what do you know, I found out exactly why american brewed bitters (and most homebrewed bitters) never tasted the same: they have too much late hops! I'm sure anyone familiar with real english bitters knows what I'm talking about when I describe that sweet, floral, beautiful aroma from the hops of good bitters. When a too-large amount of late hops is used, these delicate aromas get completely obliterated by the grassy, earthy, almost vegetal qualities that come out of the hops when used in larger amounts. Almost every english-made bitter recipe I've come across uses an equivalent of about 5-15 grams of late hops per ~5 gal at either 10-15 minutes before flameout, or as a steeping/hopback addition. Contrast that with the Americanized versions with much, much more and you begin to realize where some of the differences lie.
 
BigEd said:
That hopping schedule would be fine. My opinion on the late addition is different from the earlier poster in that a full ounce will not cause any problems as well as yield a bit more hop flavor. Re Ringwood yeast, I enjoy beers made with the strain but it is not for everyone. Ringwood is a notorious producer of diacetyl and there is virtually no middle ground on individual opinions about the strain. My suggestion is to use the yeast you normally do for similar beers on this batch so a new large variable won't be introduced into the equation. By all means try the Ringwood sometime but for now concentrate on the basic recipe and get it where you want it to be. :mug:
Click to expand...

Really good advice, Ed. When working an IT issue or bug I'm the preacher of "change only one variable at a time, or you won't know for sure what fixed it"! Why do I treat my brewing different than problem solving skills I already use? I guess because of the timescale involved. I get impatient. Thanks for the reminder.

I did a split batch last year of WLP002 (Fullers) and WLP013 (White Shield) and the Fullers strain won out on that pairing. I have tried the Ringwood (WLP009) strain for some spices ales (pumpkin, etc) but in reviewing my brew notes from the last 5 years I have favored the Burton (Henry of Thames WLP023) yeast over the years. I should stick with that for now.
 

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