My Big IPA critique please

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jflongo

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This will for a 5.2 gallon batch

IBU 67.5 projected

7.000 lb American 2-Row Pale Malt,
6.500 lb Simpsons - Maris Otter,
4.000 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L,

1 lb of corn sugar pre boil

0.300 oz Columbus into boil for 60.000 min.
0.300 oz Columbus into boil for 30.000 min.
0.500 oz Cascade into boil for 15.000 min.
2.000 tsp Yeast Nutrient into boil for 10.000 min.
1.000 tsp Irish Moss into boil for 10.000 min.
1.000 oz Centennial into boil for 10.000 min.
0.500 oz Centennial into boil for 5.000 min.
1.000 oz Columbus into boil for 5.000 min.
1.000 oz Cascade into boil for 5.000 min.

Irish Ale Ale yeast

Also, I considered doing a 90 min boil, but since I only have a 7.5 gallon pot, i'm afraid that I may boil off too much wort, so make it 60 instead.
 
Any thoughts on this, I want it to be a pretty good IPA and decently hoppy.

I currently have Irish Red, Centennial Blonde, and Oatmeal Stout, and sitting in fermenters right now. I think my Big IPA, is going to be my next recipe in the next coming weeks. So just looking for comments on it.
 
The grain bill is fine. I'd probably increase the late hops, for a bigger hoppier flavor. Say, something like this:


0.500 oz Columbus FWH (or up to 35- 40 IBUs with this addition)
1 oz columbus 15 minutes
1 oz centennial 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz centennial flame out
1 oz cascade flame out
dryhop 5-7 days with 2-3 oz of any of the above
 
The grain bill is fine. I'd probably increase the late hops, for a bigger hoppier flavor. Say, something like this:


0.500 oz Columbus FWH (or up to 35- 40 IBUs with this addition)
1 oz columbus 15 minutes
1 oz centennial 10 minutes
1 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz centennial flame out
1 oz cascade flame out
dryhop 5-7 days with 2-3 oz of any of the above

Ok, I made a few changes and have this sitting at 70.6 IBU, this will change a little when i buy the hops, they may not be the exact same Alpha % that brewtarget has.

I have never dry hopped before. So how does this sound, let it ferment for 7 - 10 days, add 2 oz cascade to a carboy, and then siphon on top of that, and let it sit for 7 days?
 
I like the recipe a lot, actually, your grain bill and hop varieties are right up my alley. But I agree with Yoop, moar hops late is never a bd thing with an IPA. I like to shoot for 50ish IBU with the bittering hops and then say F it late and go for 6+ (8-10 is more like it) ozs between 10 min and flameout/steep adds. Yay hops!
 
Ok thanks, I'm going with the modifications I made, and then i'll dry hop with 2 oz for a week.

I'll probably brew this in a few weeks, I have way too many things going on right now, Irish Red in a carboy, Pino Grisio in a Carboy, Centennial Blonde in a bucket, Oatmeal Stout in a bucket. I really need to buy a 6g better bottle, and another bucket :D
 
When I think of a "Big IPA" it's something American, beyond 1.070 OG, and heavy in malt character, IBUs, and total hops used. Something like Maharaja. Is that what you desire? If so, you should focus on large hop additions all around and add more complex malts to the grist.

If you want a longer boil, but are afraid your kettle is too small for a full 90 minutes, then settle on 75 minutes. Problem solved.

Corn sugar is typically added post-boil by the way. And if you want something more hop focused, use a clean Cali Ale yeast starter like WLP001 or WLP090. Irish Ale yeast is a bit out of place here.
 
I use british yeasts in my IPA all the time. Irish ale is one of the cleaner strains from the Isles and not out of place for an IPA at all if you're going for something a tad sweeter and more ester-y.
 
I'm not saying British yeast is out of place for an American IPA. Nothing wrong with using English ale yeasts like WLP002 or 007. But I feel that Irish ale yeast is a bit out of place. So is Scottish -- These are better in darker roastier ales with low American hop use and high characterful malt focus, such as stouts, porters, browns, reds, estery Scotch ales, and perhaps a darker, malt-forward International pale ale.
 
How about Danstar Nottingham? I have a centennial blonde I could harvest yeast from in a few days if that's better? The reason I said Irish Ale, is that's what is sitting in my fridge harvested right now.
 
I agree the Scottish yeast has no place, and that Irish ale is good for malt forward beers. But, it seems that for something like the type of IIPA you're describing, Irish ale would be quite suitable:

STYLE: Imperial IPA

Back to Styles List



Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma that can be derived from American, English and/or noble varieties (although a citrusy hop character is almost always present). Most versions are dry hopped and can have an additional resinous or grassy aroma, although this is not absolutely required. Some clean malty sweetness may be found in the background. Fruitiness, either from esters or hops, may also be detected in some versions, although a neutral fermentation character is typical. Some alcohol can usually be noted, but it should not have a "hot" character.

Appearance: Color ranges from golden amber to medium reddish copper; some versions can have an orange-ish tint. Should be clear, although unfiltered dry-hopped versions may be a bit hazy. Good head stand should persist.

Flavor: Hop flavor is strong and complex, and can reflect the use of American, English and/or noble hop varieties. High to absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will generally support the strong hop character and provide the best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is generally clean and malty sweet although some caramel or toasty flavors are acceptable at low levels. No diacetyl. Low fruitiness is acceptable but not required. A long, lingering bitterness is usually present in the aftertaste but should not be harsh. Medium-dry to dry finish. A clean, smooth alcohol flavor is usually present. Oak is inappropriate in this style. Some sulfur may be present if sulfate water is used, but most examples do not exhibit this character.

Mouthfeel: Smooth, medium-light to medium-full body. No harsh hop-derived astringency, although moderate to medium-high carbonation can combine to render an overall dry sensation in the presence of malt sweetness. Smooth alcohol warming. Overall Impression: An intensely hoppy, very strong pale ale without the big maltiness and/or deeper malt flavors of an American barleywine. Strongly hopped, but clean, lacking harshness, and a tribute to historical IPAs. History: A recent American innovation reflecting the trend of American craft brewers "pushing the envelope" to satisfy the need of hop aficionados for increasingly intense products. Category may be stretched to cover historical and modern American stock ales that are stronger, hoppier ales without the malt intensity of barleywines. The adjective "Imperial" is arbitrary and simply implies a stronger version of an IPA; "double," "extra," "extreme," or any other variety of adjectives would be equally valid.

Comments: Bigger than either an English or American IPA in both alcohol strength and overall hop level (bittering and finish). Less malty, lower body, less rich and a greater overall hop intensity than an American Barleywine. Not necessarily as high in gravity/alcohol as a barleywine. A showcase for hops.

Ingredients: Pale ale malt (well-modified and suitable for singletemperature infusion mashing); can use a complex variety of hops (English, American, noble). American yeast that can give a clean or slightly fruity profile. Generally all-malt, but mashed at lower temperatures for high attenuation. Water character varies from soft to moderately sulfate.

Vital Statistics:
OG: 1.075 - 1.090+
IBUs: 60 - 100+
FG: 1.012 - 1.020
SRM: 8 - 15
ABV: 7.5 - 10%+

Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk.
Wyeast Strains:
1056 - American Ale™
1084 - Irish Ale™
1272 - American Ale II™
1332 - Northwest Ale™
1728 - Scottish Ale™
1450 - Denny's Favorite 50

Apparently, Scottish ale wouldn't be the worst idea ever, either.
 
Hey, if you're happy with the flavor profile that Irish/Scottish yeast lends to an American IPA, then by all means, use it. But for the type of IPA I'm describing, Avery doesn't use it for Maharaja.

In fact, none of the beers in your example use Irish or Scottish ale yeast -- "Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk."

Not to mention, this BJCP category lumps every type of IIPA as one. It's not solely talking about American.

I can post written recommendations on several topics as well. It doesn't make them true, or the best option. Hell, I could use Citra hops in a barrel-aged stout like KBS, or even Pannepot if I wanted to.
 
Hey, if you're happy with the flavor profile that Irish/Scottish yeast lends to an American IPA, then by all means, use it. But for the type of IPA I'm describing, Avery doesn't use it for Maharaja.

In fact, none of the beers in your example use Irish or Scottish ale yeast -- "Commercial Examples: Dogfish Head 90-minute IPA, Rogue I2PA, Stone Ruination IPA, Three Floyd's Dreadnaught, Russian River Pliny the Elder, Moylan's Moylander Double IPA. Stock ales include examples such as Stone Arrogant Bastard and Mendocino Eye of the Hawk."

Not to mention, this BJCP category lumps every type of IIPA as one. It's not solely talking about American.

I can post written recommendations on several topics as well. It doesn't make them true, or the best option. Hell, I could use Citra hops in a barrel-aged stout like KBS, or even Pannepot if I wanted to.
Hey man, I'm not trying to argue with you. Personally, Irish ale wouldn't be high on my list for an IIPA either. But if the OP wants to use it, it's not going to hurt his beer. Saying it's completely "out of place" would seem to discourage him.... I'd say if you use a lower attenuating yeast like that for an IIPA, mash low, 149, and long 75 mins. Use around 5% simple sugar, and pitch a big, healthy starter. Use nutrient. And ferment quite cool. The fruity character of Irish ale could lend nice to a darker, sweeter, more caramelly IIPA if played off the right hops.
 
Where did I say, completely "out of place"?

And if you want something more hop focused, use a clean Cali Ale yeast starter like WLP001 or WLP090. Irish Ale yeast is a bit out of place here.

I'm not saying British yeast is out of place for an American IPA. Nothing wrong with using English ale yeasts like WLP002 or 007. But I feel that Irish ale yeast is a bit out of place. So is Scottish.

Saying it's completely "out of place" would seem to discourage him.

I'm not trying to discourage the OP. But it seems that you're trying to discredit me for disagreeing with you.
 
Right now, this is how it looks.

Brewer James L
Date 01/29/2013
Batch Size 5.238 gal Boil Size 5.962 gal
Boil Time 60.000 min Efficiency 70%
OG 1.076 FG 1.021
ABV 7.2% Bitterness 65.1 IBU (Tinseth)
Color 6.9 srm (Morey) Calories (per 12 oz.) 253
Fermentables

Total grain: 14.750 lb
Name Type Amount Mashed Late Yield Color
Simpsons - Maris Otter Grain 6.500 lb Yes No 81% 3.0 srm
Corn Sugar (Dextrose) Sugar 16.000 oz No No 100% 0.0 srm
Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L Grain 4.000 oz Yes No 74% 60.0 srm
Pale Malt (2 Row) US Grain 7.000 lb Yes No 79% 2.0 srm
Hops

Name Alpha Amount Use Time Form IBU
Columbus 15.5% 1.000 oz Boil 60.000 min Pellet 41.4
Columbus 15.5% 0.500 oz Boil 15.000 min Pellet 10.3
Centennial 10.5% 1.000 oz Boil 10.000 min Pellet 10.2
Cascade 6% 1.000 oz Boil 5.000 min Pellet 3.2
Cascade 6% 1.000 oz Aroma 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Centennial 10.5% 1.000 oz Aroma 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Cascade 6% 2.000 oz Dry Hop 0.000 s Pellet 0.0
Misc

Name Type Use Amount Time
Yeast Nutrient Other Boil 2.000 tsp 10.000 min
Irish Moss Fining Boil 1.000 tsp 10.000 min

Yeast(this will be from harvested batch, and will do a 1L starter)

Name Type Form Amount Stage
Wyeast - Irish Ale Ale Liquid 0.528 cup Primary
 
I like the recipe, I think it will make a great IPA. You may want to back of the corn sugar a tad, replace the gravity w/ base malt and mash low to get a good, dry beer. And if it were me, I would up the aroma/steep hops. It never hurts in an IPA. Make sure you aerate well too, that Irish yeast is a bit lazy, so give it all you can to help it finish strong. Big starter, good nutrient and a well saturated wort will make it happy.
 
I like the recipe, I think it will make a great IPA. You may want to back of the corn sugar a tad, replace the gravity w/ base malt and mash low to get a good, dry beer. And if it were me, I would up the aroma/steep hops. It never hurts in an IPA. Make sure you aerate well too, that Irish yeast is a bit lazy, so give it all you can to help it finish strong. Big starter, good nutrient and a well saturated wort will make it happy.

I just pitched a 1L starter of that irish ale into my Oatmeal Stout the other day, and 6 hours into it, it was going nuts. I may do a 1.5L starter this time, 2 days in advanced. My last one I did a 1L one day in advance.

I'll think about the corn sugar advice you put in. I could back it down a little.

I could drop it to 8 oz, and up the Maris Otter to 7lbs, and this should yield about the same gravity.
 
There is some confusion with the way you posted your recipe. I'm not sure if you meant to report the %'s as amount of fermentables or something else. So for an example, Corn sugar = 7% of the total fermentables, not 100%. 7% is not too high for a monster IIPA. And 16 oz. = 1 lb. You'll probably want more than 2% Crystal malt in here as well.

Be sure your boil size and batch size are accurate for your system. I doubt only 0.75 gallons is lost after the boil and after the transfer to primary.

I preferred the large 60 minute hop addition and slightly lower 30 minute hop addition that you erased after the revisions. Remember, this is a particularly large IPA. I would also use a 4-5 oz. dryhop here with mixed Cascade/Centennial.

If you're going with the Irish Ale yeast, be sure that it's healthy and that you pitch the appropriate starter size. With corn sugar, a lower mash temp, and proper times/temps/ratios, I see no reason why it should not attenuate 4-6 points higher than expected.

Check out mrmalty and yeastcalc.com
 
That is yield %.

The recipe is

47% 2 row
47% Maris Otter
3% Corn Sugar(assuming 8oz now)
2% Crystal 60L

And yes i will check out mrmalty before brewing this. I still have a good week or 2 before I'm going to do it.

And if you think adding 2oz of centennial along with the 2oz cascade for dry hopping i could surely consider that. I have never dry hopped before, so this will be a first.
 
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