Electric Brewery Build with Coolers.

Hey Guys,

I am in the process of building an ebrew system using two, 10 gallon Depot coolers and an 11 gallon SS BK. I will be installing a 30amp GFCI breaker to my panel and running a 10-3 line to a 30 amp (125/250V) 4 wire turn lock outlet (smaller than dryer outlet).
I will be building a control panel using one that PJ designed on another thread that seams to be dead. The panel will be running two 5500w elements. One will be in the HLT and the other will be in the BK. The plan is designed to use only one PID and to operate only one element at a time.
I will be using one pump and one motor to mix HLT water both will be connected to the panel.
THe HLT will have a copper heat exchanger coil that will recirculate to maintain mash temps.
For chilling, I will be building whirlpool immersion chiller.

If anybody has any suggestions or see any problems in my thoughts or direction, I would really appreciate!

Thanks!

Sean

Sean,

I think you chose a really good plan for your setup.

Please let me know if I can help and advise you in your adventure.

P-J

Thanks P.J.!


[Updated]

Here is my planned parts lists so far:


From ebrewsupply:
(1) Three way, 2 NO contact switch
(2) Two way, 1 NO Contact switch
(3) Blue LED push button 2-way switch
(2) Yellow 220V 22m LED
(1) Mushroom Button, NO ( I think I want normally open anyways.) contact
(1) Flashing buzzer
(2) XLR Female plug
(2) XLR Chassis mount male jack
(1) 1/2 Meter DIN rail.
(1) 25 amp 2 pole breaker
(1) 16 amp single pole breaker.

Also thinking of adding a keyed 2-way 1 NO Contact, switch. Not sure what people think of these but I was thinking it might be good to lock it up for the kiddos.

From Auber:

(1) Large Controller Enclosure
(1) SYL- 2352 PID
(2) Liquid tight K type, 4 in probe, 1/2 NPT Thread
(1) 40amp SSR
(1) External Mount Heat Sink for 60A SSR (Not sure if there is a cheaper and better way to go for this.)
(2) Contactor, 2 pole, 30A, 120V Coil

From Amazon:

(2) Camco 02963 5500w 240v screw in water heater lime life ripple element - ultra low wat density.
(Many) Terminal connectors.
(Many) Self adhesive tie mounts.
(Many) Zip ties.

From Mouser

(4) Switchcraft Male 502-HPCC4F (One each for the elements, pump, and stir motor.)
(4) Switchcraft Female receptacles 502-HPCP41F1
(4) Terminal Block Interface Module DIN mountable
I think that should be close to everything. I just want to make sure I have all of the right stuff.

From StayOnline:

(25ft) THHN 14 awg stranded 105c*600 volt wire (Black)
(25ft) THNN 10 awg stranded 105c*600 volt wire (Orange)


Thanks!!

Sean

Hey guys, I am planning to pull the trigger on my list and just want to be absolutely sure that I am getting compatible and correct components. Would someone be able to give me the thumbs up on this list. Thanks and happy New Years everyone!

Hey Sean,

I am in the process of building something almost identical. The only difference is that i'm going to use 2 PIDs and a timer instead of 1 PID. How do you plan to mount the element in the cooler. I'm torn if I should go through the bottom of the cooler or the side.

Have you looked into the different temperature probes from Auberin? I'm going to go with the RTD PT100-L50NPT with delux cable. It's more pricey but it can be threaded into a 1/2" tee and the delux cable comes with a mount for the control panel. I'm not sure if this set-up will work for you as mine will be mounted on the ball valve of the HLT and monitor the water there as it is recirculated by a pump, not a motorized stirrer.

Also I've decided use switch craft receptacles and plugs instead of the flanged outlet/receptacle. This will save a bit of money and will the cord to the element to unplugged from both ends. Below are a few links. This was not my idea but recommended as an alternative by another member who's name I can't recall now. If you search switch craft it might up.

Switch craft plug 502-hpcc4f http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Switchcraft/HPCC4F/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvxO7XFMojgsNwp9BDEFdAh

Switchcraft cord rect 502-hpcp41f1
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMtAYTMy7wxAr8ZPx/M65zheoDMfjzVhvpQ=

I have ordered both my SSR and heat sink from ebrewsupply. The SSR is rated for 40amp and has definitely been used with success for the 5500 watt elements. I'm not sure if this is a better choice than the one you mentioned from amazon.

The only other things I added to my order were terminal ends and self adhesive tie mounts from amazon, a DIN rail and mountable breakers single and double pole from ebrew supply, and mountable distribution blocks from mouser. These specific ones look very convenient and were recommended by Kevin. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Altech/CDB6-2/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMuHSyTciuLGfyDUOU3oHpiE

Your coolers look beautiful by the way and I look forward to the finished product.

Corey

I have no experience with using an electric element in a plastic cooler... if the plastic holds up, you need to make sure you ground the cooler (water) some how, otherwise you could have a very bad day.

If you're pumping your wort through the HEX, then why not put a short temperature probe in a Tee right off the outlet from the MLT? Then you would be measuring the actual temperature of the wort as it leaves the mash tun, and could adjust the HLT from there.

Great advice guys!
Is there a reason to use two PID's over just one? I thought that you would need two just incase you wanted to do back to back batches. I was thinking that since I am only using a 30amp breaker that it would probably be best to only use one element at a time. Also saving some money by only having to use one PID. I think the only thing that I will have to do is unplug the temp sensor for one and plug in the other?

As of right now, I was thinking of mounting the elements in the cooler through the sides. For only the reason that it would allow me to use more water. I was thinking that the higher the water needed to be to keep the element wet, that more likely it would be for me to burn the thing out. I considered a float switch but didnt want to add just another thing, so for now, side mounting.

As far as which kind of sensor, I really didn't know which one to get. Your idea of putting into a 2" tee is a great one, and BadnewsBrewery has also a good point on taking wort temps and adjusting HLT accordingly. I think that is probably the way to go.

Yes, I will be grounding the cooler. There are few examples of it out there, I just need to follow directions. Thanks for the reiteration of how important that is.

I will definitely be checking out those receptacles! Thanks for the heads up. Saving money anywhere would be great since these projects always cost more than anticipated! Haha!

Oh, and I need to add a heat sink also! Oops left that one out...

The SSR's at ebrewsupply are all sold out, so I was searching on Amazon and found that one. I wasnt sure if it would work though.

By adding the DIN rail and breakers, would I need to update the schematics or is it pretty self explanatory? Yes, terminal ends and tie mounts, I will add also!

Thanks! THis info is really helpful! I will update my list soon as it is time to start drinking some beer for the New Year!

Happy New Year Guys!

Cheers!

Sean

ssimkins said:

Great advice guys!
Is there a reason to use two PID's over just one? I thought that you would need two just incase you wanted to do back to back batches. I was thinking that since I am only using a 30amp breaker that it would probably be best to only use one element at a time. Also saving some money by only having to use one PID. I think the only thing that I will have to do is unplug the temp sensor for one and plug in the other?

Click to expand...

There is no real good reason for a second PID, and is certainly unnecessary. I am using the first PID to control the element in the HLT which is, from what I read, typically set 2 degrees higher than what you want the mash temperature to be. So the first PID will read what the temperature of the water is in the HLT, not the exact temperature of the Mash. My very curious mind wants to know the exact mash temperature is. So honestly i'm spending the extra money for the second PID to use as a glorified temperature readout as well as an alarm (when sparge temp has been reached).

ssimkins said:

As of right now, I was thinking of mounting the elements in the cooler through the sides. For only the reason that it would allow me to use more water. I was thinking that the higher the water needed to be to keep the element wet, that more likely it would be for me to burn the thing out. I considered a float switch but didnt want to add just another thing, so for now, side mounting.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing you mean that going through the side will allow you to use less water. That is why I too want to go through the side. I've read that it can be tricky to mount this thing through the side of the cooler but it is seems worth the risk. Setting the element in the bottom of my cooler pointing upward it looked like the minimum amount of water required to cover the element would be about 8 gallons. Another note you should be aware of when mounting the camco ULWD 5500 throught the side is that it is a little too long. I was able to bend mine enough that it is now short enough to fit and as little as 2 gallons of water will keep it covered.

ssimkins said:

As far as which kind of sensor, I really didn't know which one to get. Your idea of putting into a 2" tee is a great one, and BadnewsBrewery has also a good point on taking wort temps and adjusting HLT accordingly. I think that is probably the way to go.

Click to expand...

Yea it seems like using a tee and a threaded RTD will be the easiest way. People have raved about the delux cable, its 11$ extra per probe, but I hear its worth that so I plan to add that. The bad news is that it makes the temp sensor as much as the PID!

ssimkins said:

I will definitely be checking out those receptacles! Thanks for the heads up. Saving money anywhere would be great since these projects always cost more than anticipated! Haha!

Click to expand...

Cool, mine were ordered over the weekend and should be here Friday.

ssimkins said:

The SSR's at ebrewsupply are all sold out, so I was searching on Amazon and found that one. I wasnt sure if it would work though.

Click to expand...

I didn't realize they were sold out at ebrewsupply. My bad. I still haven't ordered my SSR and heatsink. That amazon one looks like it should work but I might just pay the extra and get it through auberin as well. I've heard that some of the ebay SSRs have short lives.

ssimkins said:

By adding the DIN rail and breakers, would I need to update the schematics or is it pretty self explanatory? Yes, terminal ends and tie mounts, I will add also!

Click to expand...

There is no need to update the schematics at all. The DIN rail will just make installation significantly easier and keep things organized. Just make sure whichever distribution ends/blocks you get are DIN mountable. It looks like a lot of people choose not to use the breakers but it seems like a good idea. These are also DIN mountable.

Good luck with those purchase orders. Give that credit card a workout! haha

Corey

my only thought is if you are already putting a herms coil in the hlt why not throw ice in the hlt and use the herms coil as your chiller also?

Here is an example of my wiring diagram with utilization of the second PID and the breakers. I have to attach it as a pdf as the JPEG version is terrible quality.

Corey

View attachment Final E-Herms Hop Rehab wiring diagram.pdf

bradjoiner said:

my only thought is if you are already putting a herms coil in the hlt why not throw ice in the hlt and use the herms coil as your chiller also?

Click to expand...

Cool, idea. I would've definitely tried this except Santa just brought me a plate chiller. As long as your can clean and sanitize the coil it during the boil this seems like a great idea.

Corey

Parts list has been updated. Thanks guys for the great suggestions!

As far as chilling through the HLT, I have heard of people doing it, but it seemed to take a long time. From what I understand, the whirlpool immersion chiller chills really fast. Although, I may be wrong...

Your right though, the HLT has a heat exchanger in it, why not use it. Totally makes sense...

smittygouv30 said:

Here is an example of my wiring diagram with utilization of the second PID and the breakers. I have to attach it as a pdf as the JPEG version is terrible quality.

Corey

Click to expand...

Great diagram Corey! Thanks!

I was reading Madgus's build and saw a comment from BadNewsbrewery talking about the on/off switch for the PID. I was wondering the same thing when reading the wiring diagram also. I just figured there was a good reason it was there. After reading their comments, it seems to be a bit redundant. The only thing I can think of is by turning off the PID, the elements are off but you sill have your pump access? I may just remove it from the plans.

Any thoughts?

Sean

Yea. I have always found that unneccessary. I really can't think of many situations you would want your control panel on and PIDs off except, like you mentioned, to have access to the pump on/off switch only. I suppose if you find the PID lights annoying when you want to use only your pump(s) then the switch has value. I can't knock it too much as i'm sure there are plenty of additions I have made to my plans that are silly to other people. It's all about preference I suppose.

The way I see it, having the PIDs on gives you information... whether that's the temperature of the water / wort, or just the air temp, it's something. The only valid reason I can see in turning them off is if you don't like the red / green lights looking at you. The element should be turned off via the element switch / contactor so you're not dependant on the SSR.

But... as Smitty says... some folks want to do things the way they want to do things, and who am I to knock them. As long as they realize it's not necessary, the rest is totally up to them.

I thinking that I don't have element switches. Am I reading the plans wrong? Maybe I should change the two way switch to a three way switch? So, have either element turned on or third position, both off. Does that sound right, or am I missing something?

Thanks guys, all of this is a lot of help... Will be removing PID switch.

Sean

Correct, I'm only using 1 element in the HLT and propane to boil, so a 2-way works just fine me. But, with an element in both the HLT and the BK, a 3-way would be best. This way you can't even try to have both on at the same time, overloading the 30 amp circuit.

But yes that switch after the SSR and before the element is a 3-way switch in the wiring diagram you have.

You could theoretically have a 2-way switch that was ON/ON to switch between your two elements. There may be a fraction of a second when both are on at the same time, but I'm willing to guess that there will be next to no appreciable load difference noticed by the wiring or the breaker and you'd be fine. Obviously the smartest and safest way to go would be a 3-way with ON/OFF/ON so you have to break contact with one element before engaging another.

-Kevin

Awesome! Thanks guys, that makes a lot of sense. I will change two way to three way and remove PID switch.

Sean

I just realized that I should utilize that switch that I was going to use for the PID on/off, for switching between the temp probes. Since I only have one PID and two elements, I will also have two temp probes for two vessels. Instead of unplugging and plugging different probes, I should be able to just use a switch. Simple enough...

I also added my wire list the the planned order.

I think I am real close to ordering.

I think it is a good thing, but I tend to really over think things...

if you are using the pid on two different vessels wouldn't that mess up the autotune functionality? or will the other vessel strictly be in manual mode for the boil?

chris

It will indeed mess up the tune some, but assuming the two vessels are similar enough it shouldn't matter too much.

I didnt even think about the auto tune, but as BadNewsBrewery says, I dont think it will be too far off. Both vessels are very similar in size and shape. I am hoping that it will be fine.

Has anybody heard of the Large Enclosure from Auber not being big enough for these types of builds? I wanted to go with this one because it is cheaper than anything else in that size range. It is also precut for the heat sink.

Sean

I'm pretty sure you will have no issues. I am ordering the same one and am going to try to squeeze 2 PIDs and a timer into it. The issue I see with the size is mostly the depth of the enclosure not so much the height/width. It is only 5.5" deep and that might cause some issues as the PID is also fairly deep. I'm not sure what if anything will be able to sit directly under the PID area. I feel like the depth of the PIDs are around 3" if I remember reading the manual correctly. This might require some creative staggering of stuff inside the panel.

Corey

Cool! Thanks Corey! I will be ordering all of my parts today.

I will keep you guys updated!

Good luck! I got my mouser order today, its so exciting once they all start flowing in!

Parts are staring to roll in and I ended up going with the key switch and started to do research on how to add it to my system plans but every plan I see has either a contactor or relay added to make it work. Is that right? I guess I should have asked prior to the order...haha!

Yea, when I was planning my build Ryan from ebrewsupply warned me about that. Unfortunately, the key switch is only rated for 5 or 10 amps (something like that) and therefore requires a contactor that can handle the juice required by your set-up. It would be the same scenario no matter if you used a key switch or a regular 2-way switch.

p.s. If that's the only thing you forgot to order you are in VERY good shape! Every body likes to pay extra shipping and handling charges anyway. :cross:

Corey

You can get a 40a contactor from the Auber Ins for not much and they're easy to install.

Thanks guys! I will order the contactor, but will probably wait until I receive everything to make sure there is nothing else I will need.

Sean

smittygouv30 said:

Another note you should be aware of when mounting the camco ULWD 5500 throught the side is that it is a little too long. I was able to bend mine enough that it is now short enough to fit and as little as 2 gallons of water will keep it covered.

Click to expand...

Can you elaborate on how you bent this element to fit, please?

cupido76 said:

Can you elaborate on how you bent this element to fit, please?

Click to expand...

It was as basic as can be, and took all but 3 minutes. I just put the far end of the element (the end away from the electrical connection) into a vice and bent the near end towards the concave side of the distal curve. All it did was make the far "ripple" more "rippled" but it was enough to shorten the element by an inch or so which was plenty to have it fit in the cooler without touching the far side.

Corey

smittygouv30 said:

It was as basic as can be, and took all but 3 minutes. I just put the far end of the element (the end away from the electrical connection) into a vice and bent the near end towards the concave side of the distal curve. All it did was make the far "ripple" more "rippled" but it was enough to shorten the element by an inch or so which was plenty to have it fit in the cooler without touching the far side.

Corey

Click to expand...

Great... thanks!

I'd like to try to fit one of these in a vessel that's just a hair over 13" wide, so I don't even need much in the way of adjustment to make it happen.

I have been thinking about wether or not I should be using a fan motor to churn the HLT water or just buy another pump as Corey and many others are doing. I cant seem to find a thread mentioning reasons to go one way or the other. I just assumed that the motor would end up being the cheaper option and just as effective. Do you guys have any thought on this?

Thanks!
Sean

ssimkins said:

I have been thinking about wether or not I should be using a fan motor to churn the HLT water or just buy another pump as Corey and many others are doing. I cant seem to find a thread mentioning reasons to go one way or the other. I just assumed that the motor would end up being the cheaper option and just as effective. Do you guys have any thought on this?

Thanks!
Sean

Click to expand...

You could go the stir motor set up fairly cheap.

A Stir Motor set up like this: The first post in the link (mine) shows the motor I used & it is still available for about $18. You might want to read the rest of that thread as well.

Just something to think about.

Very cool P-J!

Thank You!!

I wonder if this motor would work? It is part of Amazon Prime and is only $6 more than the used one at H&R.

I know, common sense says to just get the one that P-J has used and tested.

It is just so easy to order using Amazon Prime:cross:!

Sean

ssimkins said:

I wonder if this motor would work? It is part of Amazon Prime and is only $6 more than the used one at H&R.

I know, common sense says to just get the one that P-J has used and tested.

It is just so easy to order using Amazon Prime:cross:!

Sean

Click to expand...

The motor in your link is 3200 RPM. I think it is way high for a stir motor.

he'd need some sort of gear reduction to drive it at proper speed for sure.