"The Thief" and Hydrometer readings

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json2001

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Hey guys,

I have been reading other posts in the beginners forum and found a lot of advice saying that you should not pour samples back into the brew. I have wondered about this for a while now actually.

I bought The Thief for taking specific gravity readings after my second batch, as the turkey baster that came in the kit from my lhbs leaked beer all of the counters and floors. I figured the point of The Thief was so that i could quickly take a reading and use its little nozzle to drain the beer right back into the fermenter. Sounds like I should maybe take the sample and drink it instead of pouring it back (I have been tasting my brew every time i siphon between stages - just siphon a little into a cup)

In the back of my mind I also have concerns that the Thief (and other equipment) sometimes still has some sanitizing fluid on it (OneStep) I usually stand it upright on clean paper towels and then try to "whip" the water out. Is this a major no, no? If so, how long can you sanitize before using equipment? I have been sanitizing and leaving the supplies to dry for about an hour before using.

So - should I stop my (perhaps bad) practice of taking a reading and draining back into the batch? TIA
 
Well considering that no rinse sanitizers are wet contact sanitizers there should be sanitizer present on in your theif, your bottles, on your tools that touch your beer.

Drying your tools after sanitizing cuts the efficacy in half..meaning whatever was on the object was killed by the sanitizer, but once the sanitizer dries, anything that lands (think airborn) or comes into contact won't be killed.

If you let the sanitizer dry, the nasties won't die.

At the right concentration the no-rinse sanitizers will not be tasted in your beers...in fact starsan becomes yeast food and is actually GOOD for your beer (and septic system).

As to putting the samples back...DRINK THEM, but don't judge them. A few ounces won't matter if it gaurentees good beer down the line...and adding it DOES increase the risk of infecting your beer...so why risk it?
 
First of all, don't take the chance of messing a batch of beer up because you don't want to "waste" a little of your beer. Use that sample as a taste testing, check it for clarity, flavor, etc. I always shoot for 5.5 gallons in my carboy so by the time I'm done racking and checking the SG I'll still have close to 5 gallons.

As far as the sanitizer, I put my thief in sanitizer(Iodophor) and then right into the carboy for the sample. Certainly you don't want to have a lot of sanitizer in the thief because it might give you a false reading, but a little foam won't make any difference. I think this one of those cases where your probably overthinking it a little, IMO.
 
hah. You're not far off - I'm SURE I'm overthinking everything at this point!

I had no idea that the no rinse meant that it should stay wet! Thank you so much! Thats going to be SO much easier knowing that! So just plunge the equipment in - get my 30 seconds contact (with OneStep) and go right for the brew? Sounds good and easy to me!

I have been looking at peoples hydrometer readings in the Galleries here and looks like there is a much easier way there too - fill the sample container up to the brim for easy reading! I have been trying to read through the plastic...with limited (i'm sure) accuracy.

So are these other sanitizers better than the OneStep? It was just what came with the kit from the local shop so I stuck with it. I like the sounds of starsan. So it foams up? And its ok to have the foam on the equipment and bottles when the beer touches it?


Thanks so much for the advice guys, this is earth shattering news to me and will definitely help streamline my cleaning ways.

My new mantras:
  • I will no longer pour back into my batch.
  • I will top off to 5.5 gallons.
  • I will not dry my equipment!
  • I will taste after I take my SG readings.
 
You are still overthinking a bit.

30 second wet contact doesn't mean the object being sanitized has to be submerged for 30 seconds. Although, it won't hurt but, it is a waste of sanitizer to mix a big batch only to dump it out later.

Learn the way of the spray grasshopper.
 
Revvy said:
I pretty much answered those sanitizer questions (and provided links) in this old thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sanitizer-question-54932/

:mug:
Click to expand...

Thank you very much - you are indeed a sanitizing Yoda! I will be getting some StarSan for the next batch along with the wallpaper tray (GREAT TIP!), and a bottle sprayer for bottling.

GilaMinumBeer said:
You are still overthinking a bit.

30 second wet contact doesn't mean the object being sanitized has to be submerged for 30 seconds. Although, it won't hurt but, it is a waste of sanitizer to mix a big batch only to dump it out later.

Learn the way of the spray grasshopper.
Click to expand...

Ahhh A spray bottle, I could see that being VERY handy! Though I already own a sponge i have been using for brewing and might try using that as a sprayer substitute. As i proceed and get more experience, hopefully I can cut down on the thinking :p
 
json2001 said:
Thank you very much - you are indeed a sanitizing Yoda! I will be getting some StarSan for the next batch along with the wallpaper tray (GREAT TIP!), and a bottle sprayer for bottling.



Ahhh A spray bottle, I could see that being VERY handy! Though I already own a sponge i have been using for brewing and might try using that as a sprayer substitute. As i proceed and get more experience, hopefully I can cut down on the thinking :p
Click to expand...

Get rid of that sponge when sanitizing. Just...Eeeew! Or microwave it wet for 2 minutes but, don;t let it outta your sight.
 
I normally just let it soak in my sanitizing liquid until I need it for something. But after thinking about it, I could see the spray bottle being more effective in lots of cases.
 
The thief collects only a few ounces of beer. You won't miss it. I like to drink all the samples so I can monitor the progress of the brew at each stage. If you don't want the sample just throw it out.

json2001 said:
So are these other sanitizers better than the OneStep? It was just what came with the kit from the local shop so I stuck with it. I like the sounds of starsan. So it foams up? And its ok to have the foam on the equipment and bottles when the beer touches it?
Click to expand...

Don't fear the foam. No rinse sanitizers are really no rinse, including the foam. If you let the foam die down and pour out the liquid you will see it's only a few drops anyway!

I switched from OneStep to StarSan for a few reasons:

1) OneStep was horrible on my skin. StarSan does not dry my skin out.
2) StarSan keeps 2-3 weeks for me. OneStep is only good for 24 hours.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Get rid of that sponge when sanitizing. Just...Eeeew! Or microwave it wet for 2 minutes but, don;t let it outta your sight.
Click to expand...


I actually have a dedicated sanitizing sponge as well...It stays in the vat of sanitizer, unless I don't have any made, and if that's the case it dries out in the sanitizer bucket, until I mix a new batch of sanitizer. I don't use it for anything else....
 
Saccharomyces said:
2) StarSan keeps 2-3 weeks for me. OneStep is only good for 24 hours.
Click to expand...

Really? I wouldn't keep sanitizer for longer than 24 hours as it begins to break down and weaken. The rule of thumb is to change it daily as the ph will increase and make it ineffective. The only way around that is to continue to add more sanitizer.
 
shertz said:
Really? I wouldn't keep sanitizer for longer than 24 hours as it begins to break down and weaken. The rule of thumb is to change it daily as the ph will increase and make it ineffective. The only way around that is to continue to add more sanitizer.
Click to expand...


Wrong info....Especially if you use RO or pre boiled water and store it in a sealed container, you can store it for months...

Tap water, only a few days...

There's plenty of info on this topic both here and online...

IIRC Chuck Talley the inventor of Starsan even talks about the storage efficacy here...

March 29, 2007 - Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San
Charlie Talley from Five Star Chemicals tells us best practices in using household bleach and Star San in sanitizing equipment.

Click to listen to the basic brewing podcast
Click to expand...

Wortmonger, who I believe used to work for 5-star typed up the notes here...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/charlie-talley-five-star-chemicals-notes-brewcasts-58928/
 
shertz said:
Really? I wouldn't keep sanitizer for longer than 24 hours as it begins to break down and weaken. The rule of thumb is to change it daily as the ph will increase and make it ineffective. The only way around that is to continue to add more sanitizer.
Click to expand...

This is solely dependant on the sanitizer in question.

Murl Landman suggests that a solution of Iodophor is good for a maximum of 8 hours.

Similarly, although I have no reference, percarbonate based sanitizers lose their effectiveness exponentially once the stop their effervescence.

Star San on the other hand is extremely stable IF mixed properly, as Revvy points out, with a neutral base water. I have kept a 5 gallon carboy of StarSan mized with RO for 2 years with NO CHANGE in pH. In a non-conditioned garage through 3 digit summer climates and double digit winters.

STar SAn is KING!
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Star San on the other hand is extremely stable IF mixed properly, as Revvy points out, with a neutral base water. I have kept a 5 gallon carboy of StarSan mized with RO for 2 years with NO CHANGE in pH. In a non-conditioned garage through 3 digit summer climates and double digit winters.

STar SAn is KING!
Click to expand...

Hey, what do you cap your starsan storage carboy with? Do youput and airlock, a carboy cap or tinfoil on yours?
 
I make 2.5 gallons at a time and store it in a 5 gallon pail with grommeted lid. I've had tap water last over 2 months, but recently switched to distilled so I can be uber cheap.:mug:
 
Revvy said:
Hey, what do you cap your starsan storage carboy with? Do youput and airlock, a carboy cap or tinfoil on yours?
Click to expand...

I just add the concentrate to the Culligan carboy and use the plastic twist cap that came with it. If it were a cooler bottle i'd just cover the opening with saran wrap and hold it on with a rubber. Band that is.
 
Revvy said:
Wrong info....Especially if you use RO or pre boiled water and store it in a sealed container, you can store it for months.../QUOTE]


I use Iodophor and I wouldn't keep it longer than 24 hours whether the water has been boiled water or not. The slime factor alone is nasty. I work at a dairy and tech sheet says to discard every 24 hours with 8 hours being recommended.
Click to expand...
 
I just bought a cheap, large (100 ml), sterile Seringe. It did the job perfectly.
 
shertz said:
Revvy said:
Wrong info....Especially if you use RO or pre boiled water and store it in a sealed container, you can store it for months.../QUOTE]


I use Iodophor and I wouldn't keep it longer than 24 hours whether the water has been boiled water or not. The slime factor alone is nasty. I work at a dairy and tech sheet says to discard every 24 hours with 8 hours being recommended.
Click to expand...

We're not talking about Iodophors...we're talking about StarSAn...


BUT Iodophors maintain their efficacy until the straw color dissipates (if you use the 1 tbs/ 5gallon ratio)

In a sealed Spray bottle again using RO water...that's 2-3 weeks...In a sealed bucket 2-3 days...In an open bucket you're right 24 hours....I dunno what "Slime factor" you're referring to...Mine doesn't get slimey after using it...
Click to expand...
 
I am a noobie (got that out there!) I;ve heard you can use bleach/vinegar/H2O mix and of course this no rinse stuff. Is there a best spot to purchase these? What kinds are available? I have heard you can use Oxi clean type stuff too is that true?
Muchos Gracious :)


(i just bottled my second batch of Imperial Stout, Yea!!!)
 
kenstogie said:
I am a noobie (got that out there!) I;ve heard you can use bleach/vinegar/H2O mix and of course this no rinse stuff. Is there a best spot to purchase these? What kinds are available? I have heard you can use Oxi clean type stuff too is that true?
Muchos Gracious :)


(i just bottled my second batch of Imperial Stout, Yea!!!)
Click to expand...

Oxyclean is a cleanser, we use it to CLEAN most of our gear and soak labels of bottles...this is done prior to sanitzing

The No-rinse sanitizers can be purchased at your homebrew shop...
 
Revvy said:
Oxyclean is a cleanser, we use it to CLEAN most of our gear and soak labels of bottles...this is done prior to sanitzing

The No-rinse sanitizers can be purchased at your homebrew shop...
Click to expand...

Just bought a 15lb thing of oxyclean at Costco today actually for this purpose. I noticed it had all these blue beads in it. I imagine those are purely for marketing it as high tech, but just to double check - I didn't somehow get an oxyclean that has soap in it and these are normal and safe for homebrew cleaning?
 
json2001 said:
Just bought a 15lb thing of oxyclean at Costco today actually for this purpose. I noticed it had all these blue beads in it. I imagine those are purely for marketing it as high tech, but just to double check - I didn't somehow get an oxyclean that has soap in it and these are normal and safe for homebrew cleaning?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I use....same stuff as at sam's or most stores...

It works amazingly well...

IA lot of people use the generic no name variety to save bucks...but I tried a couple versions and have been un happy, so it's back to the original brand for me...
 
Revvy said:
That's exactly what I use....same stuff as at sam's or most stores...

It works amazingly well...

IA lot of people use the generic no name variety to save bucks...but I tried a couple versions and have been un happy, so it's back to the original brand for me...
Click to expand...

Awesome! Any magical dilution? Or 1/2 cup per gallon of warm water for you? And you give everything a rinse after this cleaning, right?
 
Revvy said:
I use a ton of it...a couple scoops in a five gallon carboy or bucket, let it sit over night and rinse heavily...
Click to expand...

I use two scoops per 5 gallons and soak for a few days as well. No scrubbing of pails or carboys, which is a good thing since brushes would scratch the plastic. I also keep it in my 2L bottles between uses so my beer does not taste like soda (tip I picked up from EdWort).
 
Revvy said:
Well considering that no rinse sanitizers are wet contact sanitizers there should be sanitizer present on in your theif, your bottles, on your tools that touch your beer.

Drying your tools after sanitizing cuts the efficacy in half..meaning whatever was on the object was killed by the sanitizer, but once the sanitizer dries, anything that lands (think airborn) or comes into contact won't be killed.

If you let the sanitizer dry, the nasties won't die.

At the right concentration the no-rinse sanitizers will not be tasted in your beers...in fact starsan becomes yeast food and is actually GOOD for your beer (and septic system).

As to putting the samples back...DRINK THEM, but don't judge them. A few ounces won't matter if it gaurentees good beer down the line...and adding it DOES increase the risk of infecting your beer...so why risk it?
Click to expand...

How So with the septic system??
 
Revvy said:
I dunno, that's what chuck tally said in the basic brewing podcast, hell I don't even quite know what a septic field is :D
Click to expand...

I think in that podcast (great podcast btw, been listening/watching a lot of them) he said that it doesn't kill the good bacteria in your septic system.
 
Revvy said:
That's exactly what I use....same stuff as at sam's or most stores...

It works amazingly well...

IA lot of people use the generic no name variety to save bucks...but I tried a couple versions and have been un happy, so it's back to the original brand for me...
Click to expand...

Just used Oxyclean to clean a round of bottles - wow. Dropped them in, went on a run, checked my email, messed around online (about 1.5 hours total) and the labels were all floating on top of the buckets! Pretty amazing. I did have to rinse them really well and might give them another rinse tomorrow before I sanitize and bottle in them as there seems to be some paper residue that must have just been floating around and stuck to some of the bottles.

Great suggestion. Thank you!.

Quick question though, When you use it to clean your carboys, do you use a full 5 or 6 gallons of water? or just throw a gallon of it in and slosh it around?
 
since I started using starsan, it generates bubbles on top of my sample in the thief. I cant see the damn reading clear because theres bubbles covering the hyrdometer.

and yes i have tried spinning the hyrdo as i dropped it in.
 

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