Brand new, but don't want extract - EQUIPMENT Q's

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gleemonger

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Hey folks of the brewing world...

I'm a brand new brewer. I just got my first kit of equipment a few weeks ago and my first brew is still sitting in primary... an IPA kit that came with my set.

My goal is probably like most people - I want to get really good at brewing (and fast), so I'm not super interested in shortcuts. I hope to learn something on every single batch. I've already spent a good chunk of time becoming pretty good at TASTING beer, and have tried most of the styles out there... and now I'm finally ready to try brewing my favorites.

I bought my kit from Williams Brewing - it's a pretty nice kit with what seems to be most of what I need for now (actually recommended by a friend who's been brewing for a while) - here's the kit I got: COMPLETE BREWERY WITHOUT A KIT @ Williams Brewing

I got the set with their American IPA kit, since I love IPA's and wanted to start with something easy that didn't have any specialty grains or anything, so I could just see how the basic boiling, cooling, sanitizing, fermenting and bottling process works.

So far the kit seems pretty great, but I really don't like how it doesn't list any ingredients. I definitely learned about the initial process, but beyond this first brew, I wouldn't want to brew any kits that don't list the ingredients, since I wouldn't really learn much as far as ingredients and their combinations go. I plan to order my next kit from Austin Homebrew Supply, since they have a bunch of great clones of some of my favorite beers, they say they list all of the ingredients, and they offer extract, mini-mash or all-grain versions of all their kits.

Like I said, I want to learn something from every batch, and I can already tell that I'm not going to be super psyched on extract malts. SO HERE'S MY QUESTION (finally, sorry I'm so long winded, it's a problem): I want complete control over the whole process, which of course (to me) means going all grain, or at least partial grain. But I don't have a huge budget - I'm hoping to get by mostly with what I already have: ie, almost a nil budget. As you can see from the link of the kit I got above, it came with a 32 quart kettle with a KettleValve already installed, which has a thread on the inside for installing a KettleScreen, which they say can turn the pot into a mash tun. It sounds like all I need to get is their KettleScreen and I can use the pot as a mash tun. Given my small budget, WOULD YOU RECOMMEND THIS FOR GOING ALL GRAIN? I don't plan on doing batches any larger than 5 gallons any time soon, so I'm hoping the 32 quart kettle will be large enough for everything - but is one kettle also enough for the whole process including boiling the wort? Other than the screen, would I just need a grain mill? Anything else?

I want to go as cheap as I can, but I also want to be sure I'm set up for at least a good chunk of batches, to brew 5 gallon or less batches and also learn things every time.......

I appreciate any help!!
 
The only other piece of equipment you need is a mash tun. It can be done cheaply if youre resourceful. Your pot is big enough to do full boils but depending on your stove you probably will need a propane burner to get it to a nice boil.
 
If you're just starting out, I'd recommend getting complete control over your process first. From sanitation to the final product ending in your gut. Once you nail that down, then re-evaluate what you need for All Grain or Extract with Steeping Grains...etc. Equipment doesn't make great brew....it just makes getting great brew easier or with less hassle. It's all about the process. Just my .02 of course.
 
I would forget trying to mash in your boil kettle and just make a cheap cooler mashtun, it’s easier to keep your mash temperatures constant and your pot would otherwise need some sort of insulation. I know you said almost nil budget, but maybe you already own a cooler and then all you need is a couple dollars worth or parts at the hardware store.

Is it possible to get your LHBS to mill your grain? Grain mills are not cheap.

Only other equipment that I can think of would be a decent thermometer, assuming your kit didn't already come with one, and a propane burner for full boils.
 
Probably least expensive in terms of equipment is Brew In A Bag (there is a sticky around here about it). Basically instead of 2 or 3 seperate vessels for yoru hot water tank, your mash tun, etc, you do similar to steeping grains, but all in one kettle/vessel.

you don't need a mill unless you buy uncracked grains. Most places will crack for you. Upside, no mill, down side cracked grains are less 'fresh' and go stale quicker.

Place not to skimp - ingredients. Sugar ferments just as fine as Malt or Malt extract - actually better because it is 100%.... BUT it will taste like CRAP because sugar has no flavors. And the beer will feel thin. Now some recepies will say 'add xlb of sugar' and that can be ok if that is the style, but don't just add sugar for the heck of it, or decide, 'I'll use 3lb of malt and 3 of sugar instead of 6 malt because sugar is less $$'

Another thing to look(listen) is the beersmith podcasts (available at apple) one called 'brewing on a budget' where the guest talks about ways to help save money in equipment and help save time.
 
yeah, to be honest this is not a cheap hobby. You'll realize you need a burner to do full boil all grain, then you'll also need to build a mash tun, then you'll do fine for a while with the 32 quart pot, but you'll eventually want to upgrade to a 10 gallon pot (which, if you go aluminum, is relatively inexpensive), then you'll realize after a batch or so that its hard to maintain proper fermentation temperatures for all your brews so you'll want to build a ferm chamber, and if you haven't gotten tired of bottling by now...well, you probably will soon and then you'll look into kegging equipment :D

Anyways my point is, you will always be spending money in this hobby, especially if you think this is your calling and you will stick with it for a long time. So don't skimp along the way, because you'll end up spending more in the long run. Figure out what your main goal is, and save up for it. Even if you have to buy a little at a time.

The easiest way to do all-grain is a propane burner, 8-10 gallon pot (10 gallon preferred), a large enough pot to heat up your water needed, and a mash tun. If you want to try, you can use this method: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/easy-stovetop-all-grain-brewing-pics-90132/

but like i said...you'll always want bigger and better things :mug:
 
You can go the brew-in-a-bag route and spend very little money. You can buy some 5 gallon paint strainer bags from your local home improvement store. Cost for a bag: About five bucks.

If you have about 50 bucks or so, you can buy a corona mill and mill your own grains. I know some people are likely to disagree with me, but I'd rather own a mill than own a mash/lauter tun (MLT). The problems with buying pre-milled grains are that 1) you may not get a very good crush and 2) any unused grains will have to be pitched after a couple of weeks, so it wastes a good deal of money in the long run. I like setting my own crush and I like being able to store whole kernels of grain for as long as I need them. Here's a good thread about setting up a grain mill cheaply

If you have a spare cooler sitting around, you could make your own mash/lauter tun (MLT) with a few parts to make a manifold and valve. Cost for the parts and valve: about $20 to $50.

And then the next step would be making a hot liquor tank (HLT). Basically just a big pot to boil water in, and a valve to drain the water out. Cost can vary wildly.
 
Awesome, thanks for all the super quick replies - this forum is the best!

So what I'm hearing, then, is that even though the 32qt kettle I got can be turned into a mash tun by just buying the $15 screen and attaching it to the spigot, I'm better off going the cooler route for the sake of temp control. I kind of was thinking that, but was just hoping the screen would be a cheaper option than the cooler and all the parts. Actually, though, I do have a cooler I might be able to sacrifice - it's one of those big, rectangle, roller ones, like this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055QGK7G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There is actually already a drain hole in there (not a spigot), but I'm not sure if it'll be the right size to install the necessary parts - but maybe close enough? If I can get all the parts I need for not much more than the screen for my kettle, maybe that's a better route then in the long run.

OTHER COMMENTS ADDRESSED:
- "depending on your stove you probably will need a propane burner to get it to a nice boil" - Yeah, this was actually one of my first issues I ran into with my first batch - I only have an electric stove, and had a hell of a time getting a rolling boil. I'm anticipating this to be an issue in the final results, not to mention just being a stupid issue - since xmas is around the corner, I actually put a good propane burner on my xmas list, along with a propane tank... so hopefully that problem is fixed next round.
- "I'd recommend getting complete control over your process first. From sanitation to the final product ending in your gut". I agree, for sure, I'm just kind of impatient and want to make the most out of each batch... and I'm a pretty quick study (plus I've been reading this forum endlessly). I definitely got over some hurdles and figured out some things I need to address for my next batch (which I don't plan to be an all-grain batch) - but I just know I'll want to get to some form of grain mashing sooner rather than later.
- "a decent thermometer" - I don't know - mine came with one of those candy thermometers... it's pretty long and can latch onto the side of the pot. Maybe there are better ones, but seems okay I guess. Unless there are other cheap options that are better...
- "Brew in a Bag" - Yeah, I've been reading up on that, and it sounds pretty great. I'm sure I'll probably try that at some point just to see if I enjoy the process and feel I can achieve the same results. Either way, though, since I'm already 90% there with a mash tun using either my kettle or maybe my existing cooler, I'll probably start with that first.
- "Is it possible to get your LHBS to mill your grain? Grain mills are not cheap." - That's a good thought. I was thinking I wanted to try and buy in bulk to save money, but maybe that's something I do later on, and just start by having someone mill the grain for me first, thanks.
- "I would suggest either an extract with specialty grains or a partial mash kit next." Yeah, actually I'm thinking the same thing - at least for my next one or two. I've already decided on my next kit as a matter of fact - most likely the Fuller's London Porter clone kit from AHS, which does include specialty grains with the extract version (the IPA I just did included none, so it was SUPER basic). I just need to decide if I want to jump to the mini-mash version or just stick with the extract this time and just add the new process of steeping the specialty grains.....
- "yeah, to be honest this is not a cheap hobby" - I'm pretty quickly realizing that, actually. But that's cool... I'm sure I can convince the wife to allow it in the budget once I've cranked out a few great beers... luckily she does appreciate good beer too.

Thanks again for all your help!
 
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Thanks for all the great replies! This is such an awesome forum. Damn, I've been trying to post a kind of long reply that brings in comments on specific comments from people, but it never seems to make it through... not sure what I'm doing wrong. Maybe it's too long or something? We'll see if this gets through, and if so, maybe I'll post shorter messages that just answer specific comments at a time...

Thanks again!

Yeah, it got through immediately... so maybe I was being too long-winded again. I'll address comments individually... after I go to some stupid meeting here at work, ha.
 
So what I'm hearing, then, is that even though the 32qt kettle I got can be turned into a mash tun by just buying the $15 screen and attaching it to the spigot, I'm better off going the cooler route for the sake of temp control. I kind of was thinking that, but was just hoping the screen would be a cheaper option than the cooler and all the parts. Actually, though, I do have a cooler I might be able to sacrifice - it's one of those big, rectangle, roller ones, like this: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0055QGK7G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There is actually already a drain hole in there (not a spigot), but I'm not sure if it'll be the right size to install the necessary parts - but maybe close enough? If I can get all the parts I need for not much more than the screen for my kettle, maybe that's a better route then in the long run.
 
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...depending on your stove you probably will need a propane burner to get it to a nice boil.

Yeah, this was actually one of my first issues I ran into with my first batch - I only have an electric stove, and had a hell of a time getting a rolling boil. I'm anticipating this to be an issue in the final results, not to mention just being a stupid issue - since xmas is around the corner, I actually put a good propane burner on my xmas list, along with a propane tank... so hopefully that problem is fixed next round.
 
If you're just starting out, I'd recommend getting complete control over your process first. From sanitation to the final product ending in your gut. Once you nail that down, then re-evaluate what you need for All Grain or Extract with Steeping Grains...etc. Equipment doesn't make great brew....it just makes getting great brew easier or with less hassle. It's all about the process. Just my .02 of course.

I agree, for sure, I'm just kind of impatient and want to make the most out of each batch... and I'm a pretty quick study (plus I've been reading this forum endlessly). I definitely got over some hurdles and figured out some things I need to address for my next batch (which I don't plan to be an all-grain batch) - but I just know I'll want to get to some form of grain mashing sooner rather than later.
 
...Only other equipment that I can think of would be a decent thermometer, assuming your kit didn't already come with one, and a propane burner for full boils.

I don't know - mine came with one of those candy thermometers... it's pretty long and can latch onto the side of the pot. Maybe there are better ones, but seems okay I guess. Unless there are other cheap options that are better... As I mentioned in another post, I should hopefully get a propane burner for xmas.
 
Probably least expensive in terms of equipment is Brew In A Bag (there is a sticky around here about it). Basically instead of 2 or 3 seperate vessels for yoru hot water tank, your mash tun, etc, you do similar to steeping grains, but all in one kettle/vessel.

Yeah, I've been reading up on that, and it sounds pretty great. I'm sure I'll probably try that at some point just to see if I enjoy the process and feel I can achieve the same results. Either way, though, since I'm already 90% there with a mash tun using either my kettle or maybe my existing cooler, I'll probably start with that first.
 
Make your mash tun.. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cheap-easy-10-gallon-rubbermaid-mlt-conversion-23008/

I would suggest either an extract with specialty grains or a partial mash kit next. They will give you an idea of what all grain entails.

Northern Brewer has great kits and do list all the ingredients.

Yeah, actually I'm thinking the same thing - at least for my next one or two. I've already decided on my next kit as a matter of fact - most likely the Fuller's London Porter clone kit from AHS, which does include specialty grains with the extract version (the IPA I just did included none, so it was SUPER basic). I just need to decide if I want to jump to the mini-mash version or just stick with the extract this time and just add the new process of steeping the specialty grains.....
 
yeah, to be honest this is not a cheap hobby...

I'm pretty quickly realizing that, actually. But that's cool... I'm sure I can convince the wife to allow it in the budget once I've cranked out a few great beers... luckily she does appreciate good beer too.
 
...I like setting my own crush and I like being able to store whole kernels of grain for as long as I need them.

Yeah, I think it would be worth it too, if I can save money by buying grains in bulk. I'm not a super duper handy guy when it comes to building things, but I think cost savings will be a pretty good motivator when it comes to trying to build my own gear. I'm super thankful that I managed to get a pretty great set of equipment by telling all of my family and friends that I wanted gift cards from the store I got my set from - so that paid for just about the whole thing!
 
For a cheap mill, look up (on here) the Pasta Roller discussion. I use one mounted creatively to a Home Depot bucket and it's pretty good. I do 5 gallon batches, typically around 13-15 lbs. of grain, and I can crunch through it in about 20 minutes....conveniently a little less than the amount of time it takes my strike water (first water addition to the grain) to heat up to temperature. It was really cheap to make and works great until a larger, better mill is affordable. Just be prepared to do a little knuckle-bustin. Corona mills are another option, as mentioned.
Tun: your current cooler looks like it'd work, but I didn't dig much into it. Again in the DIY forum there's lots of convert-your-cooler threads. It's really, really easy if you batch sparge as opposed to fly sparging. Just install a ball valve and SS braid, and you're a-brewin'. Here's a pic of 90% of my brew rig:
6264153464_130652229f_b.jpg


Mash tun on the counter, kettle on the floor. I boil on the gas stove that's out of frame to my right, and while slow it still rolls 6.5 gallons acceptably. Whoever said above that you'll always want more is 100% correct. Buy proper sized, convenient equipment now and save the trouble later. If you like, I can work up a more detailed list of all my equipment along with the pros and cons as I see them of each. You know, I think that'd make the start of a good database. Hmmmm.

Enjoy, a welcome! Kyle
 
I'm pretty quickly realizing that, actually. But that's cool... I'm sure I can convince the wife to allow it in the budget once I've cranked out a few great beers... luckily she does appreciate good beer too.

It's not a cheap hobby but then again neither is drinking beer. Around here anyway. I actually keep a spreadsheet with all of my equipment, ingredient and ancillary costs that breaks down what each 12oz glass of awesome costs me. Many of those costs are one time, so each batch I make, that price goes lower and lower - and since I'd have been drinking beer anyway, eventually, it will have paid for itself and then some. Draw one of these up, show it to the wife and call it a 'business plan'. Reason 378 why I don't have a wife. :D
 
I'm sure others have said this, but there's nothing wrong with extract - you can make amazing beers that way.

But here's the important part for new brewers: brewing with extract let's you dial in the process (water, pitching rates, sanitation, temp control, etc) with the fewest amount of variables. If the beer's lousy (like my first couple were) it's much easier to zero in on which of those fundamentals went wrong and fix it.

If you start all-grain (and I'm not trying to talk you out of it) and your first attempts are less than perfect, you'll have more to figure out in order to correct problems, like mash temp, sparge temp, crush, mash ph, and on and on. Anyway, just my .02.
 
I say get there gradually so as costs gets spread out. Start with the full boil equipment. You have the kettle you need the burner and propane tank. See if you can pick up a turkey drier kit that has a 32-40 quart pot. That way you existing kettle can become your hlt for little more expense than just the burner. I have to agree with others though that containing fermentation temps and yeast pitching should be a priority over all grain brewing though. You pick up a Johnson controller for $50 and likely scrounge up an old fridge if your resourceful. Brewing has become so much more enjoyable for me thanks to my $50 fermentation chamber which also allows for layering too. All kinds of ways to stretch your dollar in this hobby and while it's not cheap if you're someone who will be drinking craft beer anyway your equipment will eventually pay for itself.
 
I actually keep a spreadsheet with all of my equipment, ingredient and ancillary costs that breaks down what each 12oz glass of awesome costs me.

Nice, another spreadsheet guy! I do EVERYTHING in spreadsheets... and already have a pretty decent beer spreadsheet going where I keep track of everything I've tried, and all my notes, links, and things like that. I broke down the cost of my first kit too - and I know it'll just get cheaper once I start buying bulk ingredients. Definitely cheaper than always having to buy all your beer....
 
If the beer's lousy (like my first couple were) it's much easier to zero in on which of those fundamentals went wrong and fix it.

If you start all-grain (and I'm not trying to talk you out of it) and your first attempts are less than perfect, you'll have more to figure out in order to correct problems, like mash temp, sparge temp, crush, mash ph, and on and on. Anyway, just my .02.

Yeah, I definitely think I'll stick with the basics at least for a couple more batches, to be sure I really do have all of it down. I'm not knocking extract or anything - I just think I'll have more fun having the total control of the whole process. But yeah, for sure - I already know there are a couple things I probably didn't do perfectly in this first batch, and I haven't even tasted it yet. Like I couldn't get a rolling boil on my electric stove for one, so I'm getting a propane burner... things like that. That would suck to have so many variables that I don't know what I did wrong, after all that work and waiting......
 
And there's nothing wrong with doing half batches while learning the AG process - that's what i did when I was learning. It let me experiment with $10 of ingredients. If I screwed something up, which happened a couple times, I only had 24 bottles of crappy beer. The downside, o course, is when you really nail it, you only have 24 bottles or so of the good stuff. Anyway, it's a good way to get started. Cheers!
 
Plus, if you do a half batch, your stovetop can probably handle the 3.35-3.50 gallon full boil.
 
Nice, another spreadsheet guy! I do EVERYTHING in spreadsheets... and already have a pretty decent beer spreadsheet going where I keep track of everything I've tried, and all my notes, links, and things like that. I broke down the cost of my first kit too - and I know it'll just get cheaper once I start buying bulk ingredients. Definitely cheaper than always having to buy all your beer....

I also have a spreadsheet. It updates the price per bottle whenever I add equipment, ingredients or bottle more beer. The price per bottle of my first batch started out about $10.50/bottle and, updated, is now up to $24.15/ bottle.

My last batch bottled bring my total to 472 bottles at $2.61 per bottle. It's getting better. I hope to get some equipment for Xmas that will not add to the cost.
 
I've resigned to the fact that stove top is only really successful for partial mashes and extract only. I've done it a few times AG and although made good beer as a end result... The frustration and aggravation is not worth it. From maintaining temperatures, holding 10 pounds of hot wet grain, finding decent volume sized containers for the sparges, boil volumes...
 
And there's nothing wrong with doing half batches while learning the AG process - that's what i did when I was learning. It let me experiment with $10 of ingredients. If I screwed something up, which happened a couple times, I only had 24 bottles of crappy beer. The downside, o course, is when you really nail it, you only have 24 bottles or so of the good stuff. Anyway, it's a good way to get started. Cheers!

Yeah, actually I've been looking into small batches quite a bit - not just for experimentation, but also because 5 gallons is a ton of beer. At least it SEEMS like a lot, knowing that it's about 8-9 six packs of beer. We just moved to a new town and aren't exactly overflowing with friends yet here, so it might take a while to drink it all. Plus I like variety. But we'll see - it might wind up disappearing super fast, so another thing that time will tell... But yeah, definitely for experimentation and learning...
 
+1 to BIAB. You get a lot of control, and the only money you have to spend is for the bag. It works well, it's not really much of a compromise and you can get great efficiency.
 
I see you are a "number cruncher" which explains your desire for bottom line perfection. I think we all desire that goal.. but, as JonM said.. there are a lot of things to learn to control. I'm starting with extracts.. I've made some nice beers. Then on to extracts with grains. I may never go beyond that with the results that have pleased me so far.

However, my next step is to try the BIAB.. One of the nice things about grain brewing is the cost for materials is less .. but you are adding another piece of equipment to use and STORE when not using it. I'm running out of room.. I've gleaned a ton of bottles.. I have kegs but haven't used them yet. Brew pots, carboys, etc.. I have to figure a long term game plan and start getting rid of some stuff.

I'd say.. start easy.. and work your way into the more complex that has more variables to learn to control. Jon hit it on the head. Too many variables.. how do you find what went wrong. Unless you have someone to brew with, (a mentor) "I" would have a difficult time jumping directly into grain.

Incidentally, I don't know if there are any groups in your area.. but, a few miles north there is a very good group called the Sonoma Beerocrats.. lots of chances to rub shoulders with some good brewers. I am going to spend tomorrow with and experienced grain brewer. I hope to learn a bunch.
 
Starting to notice a consensus: ferm temps are crucial. Yes, yes they are. I went AG before I really had a good system for fermenting and it's caused a couple woes. Actually, I still use my not good system because we don't have room for a chamber in the apartment. Currently, I use my boil kettle as a swamp cooler. Fill half way with cool water, add fermenter, and change out ice packs twice a day for a week and a half. Sound like fun? It's not, especially in summer. If you have a little room for a chamber, definitely go that route. However, you can get by with a low-tech method like mine. Your beer just needs a little longer to clean up (.5-1 week extra). Kyle
 
Starting to notice a consensus: ferm temps are crucial. Yes, yes they are. I went AG before I really had a good system for fermenting and it's caused a couple woes. Actually, I still use my not good system because we don't have room for a chamber in the apartment. Currently, I use my boil kettle as a swamp cooler. Fill half way with cool water, add fermenter, and change out ice packs twice a day for a week and a half. Sound like fun? It's not, especially in summer. If you have a little room for a chamber, definitely go that route. However, you can get by with a low-tech method like mine. Your beer just needs a little longer to clean up (.5-1 week extra). Kyle

I also use a cheap swamp cooler, just a $7 Rubbermaid tub half full of water and two frozen 2L soda bottles I swap back and forth once a day. But do you really try to keep it that cool for a week and a half? I believe almost all of the off-flavors will be produced in the first 3-4 days or however long it takes for fermentation to significantly slow down.

Keeping it cool this way really isn't such a burden.
 
Snicks,
I try to keep it at ferm temps (66-68F) through fermentation. I haven't noticed off flavors, and I guess it's more of a works for me scenario at this point. Do I need to go that long? Nah, probably not necessary. Is it habit? Yup. To be really honest I don't watch it all that closely after about 5 days, but still try to keep it around 70. This time of year it's fairly easy and I don't regret using the swamp cooler. In summer, though, I can't brew. It's almost impossible to keep ferm temps below 75-80, as it's above 90F in the apartment. This is when the chamber would be great. (This post is in no way meant to sound snippy.:)) Kyle
 
I just made the switch to AG and love it! Of course the first time was a little hectic but it turned out great! I would get a few extract brews under your belt and read as much as you can on AG. Watch some Youtube videos on it!

I did the mash tun outlined on a previous reply.

I have this burner-
Bass Pro Shops® 30-Quart Propane Turkey Fryer | Bass Pro Shops

The pot is just big enough to do full boils, but you have to watch close. You could use it for strike and sparge water and use your boil pot for the wort. (the rails that hold the pot in place just come off. The edges of the burner are also about half an inch higher then the middle bracket so the pot that comes with it will sit right in, I think it will be fine to just set another pot right on top.) The price can not be beat!

You have the chiller and if your LHBS will mill the grain you are in business! I think you could do all of this for around 100 bucks.
 
Hmm. I've personally never made an extract brew. I started making 1 gallon AG batches from a kit from Brooklyn Brewshop. Things quickly escalated. The mashing process wasn't all that difficult and was easy enough to understand. I don't think I've yet to make a bad beer. At least to my taste buds. I do keep getting more and more precise the more I brew of course and that pays dividends.

By the way, I still use all the equipment from the 1 gallon kit - the gallon jug is used for my starters and for yeast washing, etc. I'll even use it on occasion to split a batch to experiment with different yeast or adjuncts just for kicks. Money and experience well spent.
 
Thank you all so much for the advice! I would say I should for sure do a couple more extract batches - well, extract with some specialty grains to see how that works. And of course I need to at least taste the finished product of my first batch, which should be ready in a couple weeks hopefully. I know roughly what to look for in taste to know if I screwed anything up - maybe not everything though. I might not actually know if it's just not that great of a kit either, but we'll see. I've really been working hard on my tasting ability - to pick out every little flavor.

I've been extremely careful every step of the way - but there are just two things that might affect the end result:

1. I didn't get the rolling boil because I tried to boil too much water on an electric stove. It took forever to boil to begin with, and only "rolled" when I put the lid on - which I know you're not supposed to do once the malt is in there. When I moved it back to the stove after adding the LME, I was "waiting" for it to get to a rolling boil again, like an idiot, before throwing in the first hop addition... I was only supposed to wait 5 minutes, but ended up waiting an extra 15. It never came to a rolling boil, so I gave up and just did the whole thing with a mellow boil. So the fact that it was never rolling, and the fact that I actually boiled the wort for an extra 15 minutes in the beginning (so a total of 75 minutes instead of 60) will probably affect things. I'm just not sure what to look for yet on that one - as far as how it'll affect the taste.

2. Fermentation temp - yeah, I read enough forums before attempting my first batch to know how important that is. One thing I actually have plenty of is space - we have a big storage space just behind our apartment... it's connected, but it's not heated. I had planned on fermenting out there, but I know it can drop down to the 40's at night, so needed to construct something to keep consistent and appropriate temp. After looking at all the alternatives, I decided to go with the rubbermaid tote / fish tank heater idea - and actually purchased the supplies. Then I noticed there was no outlet! I eventually found one in a room that only the landlord is supposed to use and after two weeks of trying to get them to let me use the outlet and not getting replies, I decided to change up the plan, at least on the first batch, and ferment in the closet of our guest room. It's nice and dark, low airflow, and after testing temps in there throughout the day with a thermometer - I noticed that it never drops below about 61, and never goes above 70. So I've been fermenting in there and just hoping that it'll be sufficient - it's a hell of a lot easier than the rubbermaid tote thing, that's for sure. I realize the wort temp is a little higher, so hopefully I'm not running too warm, and hopefully a potential temperature swing of up to 10 degrees isn't too much of an issue. I've taken 3 hydrometer readings so far and measured the temp of the actual wort - 2 were at 68, and 1 was at 71. THINK I'LL BE OKAY??

As I mentioned, since I already have a cooler that I can probably convert into a mash tun, I would just need the parts, plus eventually a grain mill. To do BIAB, I would just need the bag and also eventually a grain mill. So here's my plan for now, based on all your advice:
1. Stick with extract / specialty grain brewing for one or two more batches to be sure I've ironed out all the kinks in my process.
2. Get a bag, buy some milled grain at my LHBS, and try BIAB for a batch or two.
3. Get parts to convert my cooler into a mash tun and try that method too (also after buying milled grain at the store) for a batch or two.
4. Based on which method is my favorite, get a grain mill and go to town on said method.
 
Incidentally, I don't know if there are any groups in your area.. but, a few miles north there is a very good group called the Sonoma Beerocrats.. lots of chances to rub shoulders with some good brewers. I am going to spend tomorrow with and experienced grain brewer. I hope to learn a bunch.

I've been looking into clubs in my area, but don't plan on going until I have at least a few brews done, so I'm not totally lost with nothing to offer. Sonoma Beerocrats does sound like a good one - I actually sampled some of the beers made by some of its members at a festival in Fairfax, and was totally blown away at how good they were. I also might check out a couple a little closer, like the Bay Area Mashers in Oakland or the Bay City Brewers in South SF. I'm pretty fortunate to have a mentor too - but he lives an hour south of me, and we don't get together all that often... but I have learned some valuable tips from him as well. The homebrew community seems like a pretty cool one... I look forward to the day when I have something to offer myself...
 
You can make a mashtun out of your cooler without the expense of a ballvalve which cost around $10 for brass and $35 for stainless. If you go to youtube and search "batch sparge" the first one that comes up is by a guy named Don Osborn. He was able to make one with out a valve just using tubing and a stainless steel braided water line. He also shows how easy batch sparging is. Good video!
 
You can make a mashtun out of your cooler without the expense of a ballvalve which cost around $10 for brass and $35 for stainless. If you go to youtube and search "batch sparge" the first one that comes up is by a guy named Don Osborn. He was able to make one with out a valve just using tubing and a stainless steel braided water line. He also shows how easy batch sparging is. Good video!

Yeah great video! I know it adds a whole new step to the process, but it looks pretty fun to me......
 

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