Beta X grapes

A friend gave us her grapes. She mostly uses them for jam/jelly but gave the rest of them to us for wine. They are a beta-cross, similar to a concord grape but very tart.

We stuck them (once destemmed) in the freezer and finally got around to them this weekend.

When we weighed them, we had 78.5 pounds! I knew there were a lot, but not THAT many. So I got ready to make 13 gallons of wine.

Since they are hard to crush and press without a chrusher or a press, we put them in nylon mesh bags and allowed them to thaw in the fermenters. Bob found a big stake (baseball bat sized) that I bleached and rinsed and he got to work.

I'm using approximately 6 pounds of grapes per gallon, one liter of grape concentrate for the whole batch, and I think it was 22 pounds of sugar total for an OG of 1.085. Pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient was added as well, but no tannin or any other additives at this point (besides the campden when thawing the grapes in the fermenters).

I did not do any acid adjustments at this point, as the grapes are known to be acidic but the must tasted so good I didn't even bother to check the acidity. We'll see if that was a mistake or not!

I thought I'd update this thread.

The wine went into secondary around Thanksgiving, and then sat while we were gone to Texas. It was pretty cool in our house, and the wine went through cold stabilization while we were gone, I guess!

I sampled and racked today. All the carboys were full of wine diamonds (tartaric acid crystals), and the wine has a definitely lowered acidity.

It's beautifully clear, rich tasting, and dry at .990. It's a tiny bit tart on the back of the tongue, so I racked it onto some medium toast oak cubes and I'll let that sit for a few weeks.

I'm very happy with the way this is turning out! It's going to be a wonderful wine.

What yeast, Yooper?

Rossnaree said:

What yeast, Yooper?

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I used k1-1116.

I'm looking forward to sampling it again in a couple of weeks, to check on the oaking!

Concord is in the beta family right?

Does it taste anything similar to Welches grape juice wine, then?

Unferth said:

Concord is in the beta family right?

Does it taste anything similar to Welches grape juice wine, then?

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Yes, concord is very similar (beta is a concord, crossed with a wild grape), and before when we made it was was very concord-ish.

but this time, it's not like Welch's at all. It's got a hint of that tartness, but that's it. It tastes more like a wine grape, but with a hint of concord behind it, if that makes sense.

The grapes had more natural sweetness this year, and I think that's part of it. They were big and really juicy and very ripe when we picked them!

Yooper said:

Yes, concord is very similar (beta is a concord, crossed with a wild grape), and before when we made it was was very concord-ish.

but this time, it's not like Welch's at all. It's got a hint of that tartness, but that's it. It tastes more like a wine grape, but with a hint of concord behind it, if that makes sense.

The grapes had more natural sweetness this year, and I think that's part of it. They were big and really juicy and very ripe when we picked them!

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Awesome. Nice to hear when American varietals come out as great wine. Cheers!

I got 6 pounds of what I discovered to be Beta grapes from my neighbor last summer. I followed Jack Keller's Mustang Grape Wine recipe (kind of) and waited to see the results. At 6 mo it was drinkable, at 9 is damn tasty.

Today I came home from work and the neighbor asked if I wanted to pick as many of the grapes off his vine as I wanted. Me and my daughters went to work. I hit 17 lbs. . . enough for a 3 gallon batch before I felt guilty for picking so many. They told me they still have tons in the freezer from last year, so no worries.

I am now trying to remember exactly what I did. My red wine came out a bit more bold and tart than any welches. It tastes more like a Cabernet than anything else I have made. . . and that is good. I love Cabs, but it is hard to hit those flavors with fruit.

Any advice?

tokerlund said:

I got 6 pounds of what I discovered to be Beta grapes from my neighbor last summer. I followed Jack Keller's Mustang Grape Wine recipe (kind of) and waited to see the results. At 6 mo it was drinkable, at 9 is damn tasty.

Today I came home from work and the neighbor asked if I wanted to pick as many of the grapes off his vine as I wanted. Me and my daughters went to work. I hit 17 lbs. . . enough for a 3 gallon batch before I felt guilty for picking so many. They told me they still have tons in the freezer from last year, so no worries.

I am now trying to remember exactly what I did. My red wine came out a bit more bold and tart than any welches. It tastes more like a Cabernet than anything else I have made. . . and that is good. I love Cabs, but it is hard to hit those flavors with fruit.

Any advice?

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No, no real advice! Since your last one came out so good, I'd just say to do the same thing, pretty much!

If the grapes aren't overly acidic, that's a good start. We're picking our friend's grapes again this year, probably in about a month or so, so they should be fully and richly ripe. That helps with natural sugar.

Some of them had been hit by a white fungus or mold. I picked around these and made sure to discard any that looked affected. It wasn't hard because the mold had decimated them. The rest were very ripe and there were several already on the ground. I'm hoping it turns out half as good as the last go round. I just wish I'd taken better notes. It was my first wine from actual fruit.

Yooper, I foolishly encountered a problem and I thought I might seek your advice on how to fit it. I put all 30lbs of grapes into my 6.5 gallon fermentor along with a few gallons of water. The bucket is pretty full, but yet my grapes aren't all under water. I just added the campden tablet right now. I plan to add the pectic enzyme in about 12 hours (tomorrow am). I plan to pulverize with a 2x2 or 3x3 tomorrow evening, after the pectic enzyme has time to work.

Should I consider splitting this into two batches just for the ease of mushing and smashing? Right now, all 30lbs of grapes are in my mesh straining bag and would be fairly simple to split off some into another bag. I'm just not sure how well I'll be able to mash, or if it would be worth the effort to split for mashing and then recombine for fermenting. . . now that I think about it, the cap when fermenting might be an issue too.

Your (or anybody else's) thoughts?

I'd probably split them up to make it easier to crush them. If the must is really acidic, you'll want to dilute with some water and add some sugar to raise the SG.

Thank Yooper! I split them, there was no way that wasn't going to be a mess when it started fermenting. I'll check the PH (I have a meter, but that is it) in the morning, then add the pectic enzyme. I'll check it (and the OG) again before I add yeast tomorrow night.

I have to say I was deeply saddened to see you change your avatar. . . I'll go stare at my purple grape must to try and get that awful image out of my mind

tokerlund said:

Thank Yooper! I split them, there was no way that wasn't going to be a mess when it started fermenting. I'll check the PH (I have a meter, but that is it) in the morning, then add the pectic enzyme. I'll check it (and the OG) again before I add yeast tomorrow night.

I have to say I was deeply saddened to see you change your avatar. . . I'll go stare at my purple grape must to try and get that awful image out of my mind

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It's football season! I had to change to Clay Matthews. It's not possible to ignore him in September!

The pH may not be at all useful to you, as it's more of a flavor thing than a pH thing. I don't normally take the pH, but with grapes I haven't used before I do titrate the acids to see what I'm working with before deciding to raise the pH.

Yooper said:

It's football season! I had to change to Clay Matthews. It's not possible to ignore him in September!

The pH may not be at all useful to you, as it's more of a flavor thing than a pH thing. I don't normally take the pH, but with grapes I haven't used before I do titrate the acids to see what I'm working with before deciding to raise the pH.

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personally, I miss the guy with duck tape.

I'm getting ready to buy a slew of grapes to do one gallon batches with and Beta is on the list if I can find it. What sort of PH levels should I be looking to hit?

Unferth said:

personally, I miss the guy with duck tape.

I'm getting ready to buy a slew of grapes to do one gallon batches with and Beta is on the list if I can find it. What sort of PH levels should I be looking to hit?

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It's funny, but I never use my pH meter with the grapes. I do titrate the acids with the drops, but I still go more by taste. My technique is definitely unscientific, so I can't answer that one, sorry!