Help me with Bug Selection and Ferm Schedule for a Golden Sour

So having just finished the fermentation my first sour (a Belgian Dubbel with bugs), I'd like to get another one going. This time, I was thinking about doing something like a Belgian Golden Ale that's pretty aggressively tart without being "Balsamic" sour (Duchess, Victinar, etc) and suitably funky from the Brett. I'd love some input from this board on the selection of organisms that will work in a lighter ale.*

Here's the base I was considering:

5gal Batch
9lb Pilsner
2lb Flaked Wheat
1lb Munich
1lb Crystal 20
1lb Malto Dextrin (added after the bugs have started working)
17-22 IBU's from a 60min addition of Hallertauer
Mashed at 155F for some dextrins, Bottle after 12-14 months.

So I'd love to hear what you'd personally ferment this beer with, as well as how you think it would turn out.

I am in Florida, so I don't have access to the best dregs in the world. I can get any White Labs or Wyeast standard packet, and I guess I could get in line for some East Coast bugs if I needed to. I can get*commercial*sours with live bugs in my local stores like Orval and Lindeman's Cuvee Renee.

If I don't get any better suggestions, I'll probably use Wyeast Lambic Blend + Orval/Renee dregs. But my Belgian Dubbel Sour that I'm about to bottle was Lambic Blend + Orval, so I'd like to maybe use something different. Would Rousilairre be a good blend to use on such a pale beer?

Bonus question: Would it be worth it to drain off a gallon to sit on some cherries/appricots/other fruit? If so, what fruit would match well with a pale sour?

I have limited experience with this, but I'll just say it anyways. Jolly Pumpkin. Get your hands on some. I think that's exactly what you are going for. Oro de Calabaza is not sour per se but definitely tart and very funky. I've been using dregs from Oro and Russian River Supplication for my sours, pitched alongside WLP 530. Although I have yet to taste the final product, I can tell you that my sour Belgian blonde tasted straight up like Oro after a month and a half in primary. Jolly Pumpkin does a 149 degree mash combined with very aggressive microflora. I also mashed at 149 and was planning on adding dextrin, but believe me, I wouldn't bother. It's already got plenty of brett character.

No Russian River or Jolly Pumpkin gets distributed down here in FL sadly. Any other ideas on some bugs? Or is there a bug swap I can get in on?

I think you will be very happy with lambic blend, WLP sour mix (665?), roeselare, or any other white labs or wyeast blend along with the rene cuvee dregs. I don't know how different the commercial blends are (except the lambic blend seems to have more yeast strains) but I think all produce good beer. If you want it sour and funky, pitch everything together at once. I have a lambic that is wyeast lambic blend plus rene cuvee dregs and it's excellent. Far more funky and sour than rene cuvee but still extremely drinkable.

Any fruit should be good with that beer. You could get something like a sour duvel by aging on some pears. That could be interesting.

ghpeel said:

No Russian River or Jolly Pumpkin gets distributed down here in FL sadly. Any other ideas on some bugs? Or is there a bug swap I can get in on?

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hey ghpeel, looks like this bottle shop Tipple's Brews may stock Jolly Pumpkin as well as Drie Fonteinen (another great source of bugs)

I brewed a batch pretty similar to yours about 2 months ago, both halves are working pretty nicely and the ECY Bugfarm 5 half just produced a beatuiful pellicle within the last week or so which I will update with a pic in my thread soon.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f127/first-funky-beer-split-batch-bugfarm5-288800/

If you can get an ECY culture do it, the one tasting I did only about 6 weeks in was pretty amazing I cant wait for the finished product.

we definitely get jolly pumpkin in florida. check your local whole foods or total wine.

What dcHokie said. A friend went through Gainesville a few months back. Stopped there and brought back some excellent stuff we can't get here.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150544922315362&set=a.253588220361.173644.228452030361&type=1

looks like are in fact able to get JP (jealous)

Ok good call on Tipples. I just got back from there now. They didn't have the Calabeza beer, but I did get the Bam Noire and the Weizen Bam. Does anyone know if there's live Brett in either of those? I also got an Echt Kriekenbier, which is probably pasteurized, but is ridiculously sour.

ghpeel said:

Ok good call on Tipples. I just got back from there now. They didn't have the Calabeza beer, but I did get the Bam Noire and the Weizen Bam. Does anyone know if there's live Brett in either of those? I also got an Echt Kriekenbier, which is probably pasteurized, but is ridiculously sour.

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Pretty sure all JP dregs have brett, lacto & pedio. There is some discussion about the pedio, but I seem to recall someone plating it and seeing a strain or two of pedio.

JP uses the same bugs for all of the beers. There will be brett in the Bam Noire for sure, as I did a Bam Biere clone using those dregs and it was basically spot on.

Wow so the JP stuff is interesting. I was surprised by how much I didn't like the Bam Noire, but the Weizen Bam is pretty much EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO MAKE. It's a golden sour, with a nice Brett character.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've now got a great new commercial sour to enjoy, AND I've got a new source for bugs, AND I've got a target beer to clone! I love this board

ghpeel said:

Wow so the JP stuff is interesting. I was surprised by how much I didn't like the Bam Noire, but the Weizen Bam is pretty much EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO MAKE. It's a golden sour, with a nice Brett character.

Thanks for the recommendation! I've now got a great new commercial sour to enjoy, AND I've got a new source for bugs, AND I've got a target beer to clone! I love this board

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I've loved the few beers I've made using JP dregs.

Looking back at your recipe, you may to consider reducing, or omitting, that full pound of crystal 20. Most Belgian Golden Strong recipes are pretty basic, just Pils & cane sugar at a ~80/20 ratio. For the Weizen Bam, JP uses just 50/50 Pils/Wheat. Sounds like somewhere between those two might be your sweet spot recipe, just a thought

ghpeel said:

Wow so the JP stuff is interesting. I was surprised by how much I didn't like the Bam Noire, but the Weizen Bam is pretty much EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO MAKE. It's a golden sour, with a nice Brett character.

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Thanks for sharing this. I've recently gotten into sours, have tasted some great examples, and have heard rave reviews about JP. I was able to find a Bam Noire, and to put it simply - hated it. I'll keep my eye out for the Weizen Bam.

Yeah I was being generous with the Noire, I hated it as well. I drank about a quarter of it and dumped the rest down the sink. Thin, slight chalk or aspirin taste, and the funk wasn't particularly complex.

My one caveat was that the bottle I bought was packaged in Sept 2011, so maybe if I let it mature for a few months, it would have been better. The Weizen Bam was made last June, so perhaps that's why it was better.