Too efficient???

Today was my first batch on a 25-gallon system. I decided to start with something simple and malty, so I did a Scottish session ale. I wanted to to come out around 3.4% or so.

Here's the grain bill:
23# Golden Promise
3.5# Cherry smoked malt
2# flaked barley
1.5# Patagonia Especial 140 (recipe called for Special B, LHBS said this would do)
1# Chocolate Rye
1# Roasted Barley
1# Pale Chocolate

Mashed at 152* for 1 hour, batch sparged to pull off 28g.
I was hoping for 1.033 into the boiler (which is what BeerSmith indicated), but got 1.048. I added a gallon of water, but my final OG was still 1.048.

Not a big deal, but I'm curious as to where I missed it on the numbers. Beersmith has always been right on. Surely I'm not getting 99% efficiency, so something is screwy.

Thanks!

I assume your final volume was correct? Are absolutely sure you didn't measure out too much grain somewhere??

Yeah, I ended up with right at 25g. And I've rechecked my grain and can't find anything amiss there. Weird.

This really has me perplexed. I had to manually add a couple of the grains to BeerSmith, but I can't seem to find anything wrong. I'm going to try to figure this one manually (it's been a while) and see what I get. It would be nice to get an idea of the efficiency of this rig before I brew again.

Alright, I know I'm kind of talking to myself here, but maybe someone wiser (basically anyone) will chime in. I used Palmer's system to add up points, and I got 1.048. Looks like I was dead on. Apparently something is a bit off in BeerSmith, probably user error.

ClarnoBrewer said:

Alright, I know I'm kind of talking to myself here, but maybe someone wiser (basically anyone) will chime in. I used Palmer's system to add up points, and I got 1.048. Looks like I was dead on. Apparently something is a bit off in BeerSmith, probably user error.

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Can you post your math? Since you've already done it by hand and all...

Yeah, with long division and everything! On paper!

My most recent revelation is that BeerSmith is fine, assuming that my system ran at 100%. I just don't believe that.

So here's what I got, math-wise:
23# Golden Promise @ 38 ppg = 874
3.5# Smoked Malt @ 38 ppg = 133 (generous approximation)
2# Flaked Barley @ 32 ppg = 64
1.5# Patagonia 140 @ 31 = 46
1# Chocolate Rye @ 29 = 29
1# Roasted Barley @ 25 = 25
1# Pale Chocolate @ 28 = 28 (another estimate from reg. Choc. Malt)
Total = 1199 / 25 = 47.96, so 1.048 or so

Any chance your hydro paper slipped? You definitely did not hit 100% efficiency.


Rev.

Good thought on the hydro, but no dice. Just checked it in water. I agree that I couldn't have hit 100%, but I wonder how close is reasonable on a bigger system? My last brew on my 5g hit about 80%.

This may remain a mystery. I'm brewing a doppelbock next week. We'll see what happens there. Then I'll start to worry.

Kind of off-topic...

I live in Newberg, OR and my LHBS also didn't have Special B but had the Especial. I can't find much information about it online. It must be new.

mrgstiffler said:

Kind of off-topic...

I live in Newberg, OR and my LHBS also didn't have Special B but had the Especial. I can't find much information about it online. It must be new.

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Maybe it's a Patagonian super malt that threw my numbers way off! Or not...

I'm stumped too!! 38 points for the golden promise is probably 37, but that wouldn't make much of a difference. The math looks right on, are you sure you collected 25-28 gals? Maybe less? How are you measuring you volume on your larger set-up??

I'm with Brewerforlife. Assuming your scale is working, and your hydrometer is good, it's gotta be a volume slippup.

Did you measure the preboil SG warm? Sometimes I feel that measurement is not accurate, either due to error in the temperature/density correction calculation at high temperatures or due to density stratification in the hydrometer tube.

Does only one gallon boil-off on a 25 gallon system seem reasonable? It sounds low to me but I only have experience with 5 gallon batches.

Edit: missed the 28gal preboil volume, sorry.

The apparent problem could certainly be caused by not mixing the wort sufficiently before taking the gravity sample.

-a.

ajf said:

The apparent problem could certainly be caused by not mixing the wort sufficiently before taking the gravity sample.

-a.

Click to expand...

This could also very well be the problem, if the pre-boil volume was not mixed well before drawing the sample.

Wort or water for that matter, will expand 4%at near boil temp versus at68F, if you were to take your pre-boil final volume measurment at near boil temp, and were to cool to 68F without even boiling it , there would be 4% less already, due to expansion/contraction. The 4% of 7.25 gal. would only amount to about .29 gals. So that's not a whole lot. Just wanted to explain myself on that one, sorry for the rambling. Hope that helps some!! Cheers!!

Woop's, I forgot this was a 25 Gal. batch. Then 4% would be about .96 gals. If the pre-boil volume was made when it's hot 170F+, as we all do, then we must determine if measuring device was calibrated at those same hotter temps. or room temp. If calibrated at room temp, just simply collect 4% more I would say. Cheers!!

It could very well be a volume issue. There isn't a very good way of measuring volumes on the brew system (yet). I pretty much eyeballed it in terms of post-boil volume. I sparged with the proper amount, and added some water to the boil kettle to knock the OG down a bit, but post-boil volume was just a guess. I'll get a good measurement when I keg, and that may well solve the mystery.

In the meantime, I'm going to mark the sight glasses so I know what volume I have.

Hey man! It was good to hear that you guys landed on your feet. And with a 25 gallon system to play with now! Awesome! Maybe a Science of Beer II can be held at the B&B property now... I'm brewing all grain on a three tier gravity system now and would have NO problem setting up a mid-level homebrew display. LOL...