Force vs Natural Carbonation in Kegging

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More preference than anything. Some will say there is a difference in taste, some say there's not.

This article says no Guinness is artificially carbonated, or filtered.
http://***********/stories/beer-styles/article/indices/11-beer-styles/1458-stout-hearted-in-ireland
 
CO2 is CO2, any way you get it there it does the same thing.

Force carbonating requires equipment, but takes less time,allows for adjustments during the carbonation process, and results in less material at the bottom of your bottle.

Bottle conditioning is cheep and easy to do.

I prefer force carbonation, but it is an investment in equipment.
 
I have done both, and I am starting to lean towards naturally carbing my beers.

1. I then have more gas to serve my beers with and ultimately save myself a trip to the welding shop. (Damn I need a bigger tank)

2. It all but FORCES me to leave my beer alone for at least another 3 weeks while I am waiting for it to carb. This gives my beer time to mature (which chances are I would prefer anyway) but damn if it doesnt suck having to wait! (But its worth it!)
-Me
 
This link is not actually appropriate, as it does not describe what home brewers are doing when force carbing. By force carbing, you are speeding the process, but not altering your beer as in the methods described in this link. I'm posting it merely because I thought you might find it interesting.
 
WortMonger said:
Aging is everything. The spunding valve I mentioned is added insurance only for priming. Measurement is key in natural carbonating!!!
Click to expand...

Crap... Good thing I can still force carb if need be! I kind of eyeballed the 'half of priming sugar' packet when I primed my kegs the past several times.
-Me
:mug:
 
I have yet to try force carbonating and I also have yet to have a problem with natural carbonating. Maybe if it ain't broke don't fix it!
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
This link is not actually appropriate, as it does not describe what home brewers are doing when force carbing. By force carbing, you are speeding the process, but not altering your beer as in the methods described in this link. I'm posting it merely because I thought you might find it interesting.
Click to expand...

Yea I mean I'm assuming you would have to condition longer before force carbonating right?

Would you need to account for the extra priming sugar that is added?
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
This link is not actually appropriate, as it does not describe what home brewers are doing when force carbing. By force carbing, you are speeding the process, but not altering your beer as in the methods described in this link. I'm posting it merely because I thought you might find it interesting.
Click to expand...

The link is intersting... but I disagree. The local brew-pub filters their beer and it is fantastic stuff, they don't pasteurize though.
 
I prefer to naturaaly carb. I gives my beers an extra three weeks to mature, also since I don't secondary it gives more time to settle out alot of the stuff that doesn't get filtered out when I keg my brew.

Yellow 70 cooper
 
yellow70cooper said:
I prefer to naturaaly carb. I gives my beers an extra three weeks to mature, also since I don't secondary it gives more time to settle out alot of the stuff that doesn't get filtered out when I keg my brew.

Yellow 70 cooper
Click to expand...

I've heard a few people say they don't secondary and a bunch say they do. What would be the reason for not doing it?
 
Nathan2508 said:
I've heard a few people say they don't secondary and a bunch say they do. What would be the reason for not doing it?
Click to expand...

I generally don't secondary. I don't do it because it is not a useful step for me. The beer will clear at whatever rate it clears no matter what it is sitting on. I'll leave it in primary for 3 weeks generally, gives it time to settle time, time for yeast to clean up/drop out. Then I siphon to the keg and put it on gas to carbonate for a week, I'll normally continue to age even at that point, but I can sample if I want.

I also don't secondary because it is just one more chance for an infection to sneak in.
 
I believe it's hard to compare the two methods because of our nature of being anxious to drink our product.

Given two beers that are aged for the same length of time and carbonated to the exact same level of co2 volumes, they should pour and taste exactly the same (with perhaps the slightest difference due to increased alcohol in the bottle conditioned beer).

However, I suspect that those that compare the two methods actually do NOT have cases of same aging time/ same carb level. It's not easy to nail co2 volumes when bottle conditioning. It's much easier to do so in force carbing if you measure your temp accurately and give it enough time (3 weeks) for absolute equilibrium.

The patience thing is huge. People who force carb tend to try rushing by elevating pressures and/or shaking. In that case, you have no idea what your volumes of co2 are. Even if you set and forget at the chart pressure, many think they're at equilibrium in a week and a half. Nope.

In conclusion, please compare apples to apples. I have beers that are 3 months old that have been at equilibrium for a long time. I know the volumes of CO2. Carbonic acid levels have subsided. I'd put it against all my bottle conditioned beers. Don't pour a 2 week old beer that you shake carbed 2 days ago and compare it to a 2 month old bottle.
 
conpewter said:
I generally don't secondary. I don't do it because it is not a useful step for me. The beer will clear at whatever rate it clears no matter what it is sitting on. I'll leave it in primary for 3 weeks generally, gives it time to settle time, time for yeast to clean up/drop out. Then I siphon to the keg and put it on gas to carbonate for a week, I'll normally continue to age even at that point, but I can sample if I want.

I also don't secondary because it is just one more chance for an infection to sneak in.
Click to expand...

You never do any straining of any type? I feel like I'd have a cloudier beer even if it was allowed longer to settle.
 
Bobby_M said:
I believe it's hard to compare the two methods because of our nature of being anxious to drink our product.

Given two beers that are aged for the same length of time and carbonated to the exact same level of co2 volumes, they should pour and taste exactly the same (with perhaps the slightest difference due to increased alcohol in the bottle conditioned beer).

However, I suspect that those that compare the two methods actually do NOT have cases of same aging time/ same carb level. It's not easy to nail co2 volumes when bottle conditioning. It's much easier to do so in force carbing if you measure your temp accurately and give it enough time (3 weeks) for absolute equilibrium.

The patience thing is huge. People who force carb tend to try rushing by elevating pressures and/or shaking. In that case, you have no idea what your volumes of co2 are. Even if you set and forget at the chart pressure, many think they're at equilibrium in a week and a half. Nope.

In conclusion, please compare apples to apples. I have beers that are 3 months old that have been at equilibrium for a long time. I know the volumes of CO2. Carbonic acid levels have subsided. I'd put it against all my bottle conditioned beers. Don't pour a 2 week old beer that you shake carbed 2 days ago and compare it to a 2 month old bottle.
Click to expand...

So the general consensus is that force carbonation is more controllable and will produce a beer equivalent in quality given the same amount of aging time?
 
Nathan2508 said:
You never do any straining of any type? I feel like I'd have a cloudier beer even if it was allowed longer to settle.
Click to expand...

Nope I don't filter after fermentation, I do try to keep the hops out of the fermenter, but I get all the cold break in the fermenter. I use Irish moss in the kettle and always get clear beers after aging. Cold crashing helps as well, but since I tend to drink the beer slowly it cold crashes in the keg really, the first pint or two is cloudy but after that it is brilliant.

I made graff recently and forgot the irish moss so I ended up transferring that one to secondary with gelatin and now it looks great.
 
Anybody know of some reliable force carb instructions? One member seemed to think it was important to transfer kegs after saturation but I have not seen that spelled out anywhere else.
 
That is just for a really clean keg (ie little to no sediment in your serving keg). I personally don't move mine after it goes in the kegerator, so the first couple of pints and it pours crystal clear. That is with a long primary, carbonation in my primary, and counter-pressure transfer.
 
No. I mean, if you transfer to the keg too soon before it has cleared in the fermenter and you want to be able to transport that keg to a new serving location, you'd want to do a closed transfer. Otherwise, it's not necessary.
 
Bobby_M said:
No. I mean, if you transfer to the keg too soon before it has cleared in the fermenter and you want to be able to transport that keg to a new serving location, you'd want to do a closed transfer. Otherwise, it's not necessary.
Click to expand...

Also if this is a concern, you might want to think about filtering equipment, but you want to filter before carbonation. I don't do this yet but am looking in to it. I have a canister system now (got it for free) but have not set it up yet, but think I might like to look in to a the plate systems.

I have found that just letting the keg sit for a week at 33 during the end of Carbonation, clears up the beer a lot, after the first pull.
 
This may be a stupid question, but can you force cabonate in both Corny and Sanke kegs? All of the posts I have seen on force carbonation seem to be with Cornys.
 
On the last couple of batches I have naturally carbonated the kegs. I like this because it allows more conditioning time at room temp which speeds up the conditioning process and as soon as a tap is ready I can put it on and it is ready to go.
 
Niederhofer said:
This may be a stupid question, but can you force cabonate in both Corny and Sanke kegs? All of the posts I have seen on force carbonation seem to be with Cornys.
Click to expand...
Yes, they are no different in what they are only how they operate. The ports are different, but that is it. They are both pressure vessels.
 

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