Ok to pitch a starter made w/ stirplate?

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PistolaPete

PistolaPete

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In the "Brewing Classic Styles" book they state it might not be good to directly add a starter that was "continuously aerated" (I'm assuming they mean w/ a stirplate) since this could alter the flavor of the finished beer, and instead should be put in the fridge so only the slurry is pitched. Would you agree with this?

The book also says to only pitch the slurry if the starter is too big for the size batch you are doing, but it doesn't clarify on what this ratio would be. Any thoughts on this as well?
 
I ALWAYS cold crash my starters for at least 12-24 hours before decanting the spent wort and pitching just a slurry. It has nothing to do with using my stirplate, but everything to do with not F'ing up the flavors from the grains, and hops, used to make the brew. I use light/extra light DME in the starter, and don't want to dump that into my brew. I leave just enough spent starter in the flask to get the yeast mixed into a thick slurry.

I also use yeastcalc.com to get the starter size needed to produce the yeast cell count needed for my batches.
 
I agree with Golddiggie. I use a stirplate now, but even when I didn't I always crashed and decanted. I decided after tasting the starter wort that it was nothing I wanted in my nice fresh beer.
 
PistolaPete said:
How long will the starter keep in the fridge for?
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I agree with all the above as well and IMO a week in the fridge is about all ill go without getting it going again with a little fresh wort
 
PistolaPete said:
How long will the starter keep in the fridge for?
Click to expand...

I'm typically pitching the slurry after chilling <24 hours. But that's mostly due to timing it so that the starter is going in to cold crash the day/evening before I'll be brewing. Once you've made a few starters, with the same yeast strains, you'll learn how long they take. Just be aware that older yeast can take longer to get going. If you're going to use older yeast, better to do a two, or three, step starter. Depending on the age of the yeast, you might need twice as long, as normal, for the first step.
 
In JZ and Chris White's yeast book, he recommends decanting for large starters subjected to continuous aeration, and sets the cutoff at 5% of the beer volume.
 
Light beer I will crash, if I have an active starter under 1 liter I do not have a problem tossing that into a stout or porter.
I also heard Chris white say a 1 liter could not be detected if tossed in.

Today I am brewing an American stout, have some rinsed yeast from 2 weeks ago in fridge. Made a 500Ml starter to wake them up
and going to pitch it straight in.
 
Denny said:
I wonder how he knows what I can detect?
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He can't, I'm sure there are folks that are more sensitive to some flavors than others, and that likely includes whatever off flavors a yeast starter has in it. Obviously what he meant was that most everyone won't be able to detect a full 1 liter starter in a 19 liter batch of beer.
 
I found this on info on the Mr. Malty site: "I like to pitch starters while they're still very active and as soon as the bulk of reproduction is finished, usually within 8 to 18 hours. This is really convenient, because I can make a starter the morning of the brew day or the night before the brew day and it is ready to go by the time the batch of wort is ready. There is no need to make a starter a week in advance, because I pitch the whole starter, liquid and all (up to a certain size of starter). Yes, you can wait longer and completely ferment it out so you don't have to pitch the liquid, but if you're going to do that, you should use a larger starter and allow the fermentation to go complete cycle over several days, chill, decant the beer and pitch just the yeast. If you're making a smaller starter, it is better to just pitch the entire active starter within about 6 to 12 hours of pitching the yeast into the starter."
 
PistolaPete said:
I found this on info on the Mr. Malty site: "I like to pitch starters while they're still very active and as soon as the bulk of reproduction is finished, usually within 8 to 18 hours. This is really convenient, because I can make a starter the morning of the brew day or the night before the brew day and it is ready to go by the time the batch of wort is ready. There is no need to make a starter a week in advance, because I pitch the whole starter, liquid and all (up to a certain size of starter). Yes, you can wait longer and completely ferment it out so you don't have to pitch the liquid, but if you're going to do that, you should use a larger starter and allow the fermentation to go complete cycle over several days, chill, decant the beer and pitch just the yeast. If you're making a smaller starter, it is better to just pitch the entire active starter within about 6 to 12 hours of pitching the yeast into the starter."
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I'd advise you to try it both ways and decide for yourself. I did that and concluded that I didn't want to pitch the starter wort.
 
Denny said:
Yeah, well, I'd still advise ya to try things for yourself. I'm a long way from perfect.
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Nah, I just have found that with the "try different ways and see what works best for you" approach, I (well, 99% of the time probably) end up siding with you in the first place; so I just let you do all the work. :p
 
AZ_IPA said:
Nah, I just have found that with the "try different ways and see what works best for you" approach, I (well, 99% of the time probably) end up siding with you in the first place; so I just let you do all the work. :p
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I'm here for ya, man!
 
For me, it really depends on what I'm making, and the size of the starter.

If I'm making 5 gallons of oatmeal stout, I'd have no qualms about pitching a 1-2L starter in it. But 10 gallons of a Bohemian pilsner with 9 liters of starter wort? Well, no of course not.

And for everything it between, again, it depends.

Most often I make the starter ahead and decant. But I did pitch a whole starter recently in a hoppy APA with good results. The starter was at full krausen, and it worked out great.
 
I kind of like to do a 1 liter, two vial, stir plate starter, pitching the whole thing, for my belgians, as long as that gets me enough yeast for the particular beer. For english beers I tend to decant since those yeasts flocc better.
 
I usually do 2L starters and unless it's a lighter style, I pitch the whole flask.
I'll cold crash a 2L starter for wheat, belgian, american pales. Most of what I brew is in the 1.080-1.120 OG range so most of the time I just pitch the whole thing.
I pitched a whole 4L starter on my last brew. We'll see if that changes the flavor. I've always done 2L starters until this one with a planned OG of 1.130-1.140. Didn't hit the target, ended at 1.128. But this is going to be aged for at least a year so I doubt I'll detect the 10% heavily oxidized wort.
I've never tried separating a starter on a big beer. But then again I take a very low tech approach to my brewing and don't brew to style. YMMV
 
I usually turn the stir plate on at the beginning of the week to ensure the starter has enough time to make yeast for me. Cold crash when starter fermentation is done, or the evening before if I got it started too late, and decant just before i am ready to pitch. Oh, and buy an extra stir bar. You're gonna pitch it eventually.
 
Agree with Dan and Yooper--lighter beers & lagers, definitely consider chilling and decanting. Ales and darker, more flavory beers (particularly ales with 1-2L starters), don't worry about it. In between, make a judgment call.
 
So the size of the batch vs starter, as well as the style being brewed, will determine if you decant or not...I got that. But a lot of you mentioned whether you decanted or not, but there was not a lot mentioned on whether you are using a stirplate or not. I would assume if your starter is oxygenated w/ a stirplate than the same rules would apply. So even if starter isn't that big, but the style being brewed is light, than you should prob decant to avoid any unwanted flavors.

Another question: I've only used my stirplate once for my first starter ever made and I never really saw any froth form on top. I hear people talk about pitching at "full krausen" but I did not witness this forming with the stirplate. Is that normal? If it matters, the lag time was the shortest I've ever witnessed and the krausen in the fermenter seemed more active than what I'm used to seeing.
 
PistolaPete said:
So the size of the batch vs starter, as well as the style being brewed, will determine if you decant or not...I got that. But a lot of you mentioned whether you decanted or not, but there was not a lot mentioned on whether you are using a stirplate or not. I would assume if your starter is oxygenated w/ a stirplate than the same rules would apply. So even if starter isn't that big, but the style being brewed is light, than you should prob decant to avoid any unwanted flavors.
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I suppose one could argue a stir plate starter could benefit more from decanting since there's more growth (and thus probably more esters) and oxygen exposure.
 
I use a stir plate and sometimes my starter beer smells so nasty that I think it might be contaminated. Nope, just nasty, oxidized beer. I think pressure canning the wort makes it even worse. Here recently I had to go downstairs the day after pitching and sniff the airlock just to reassure myself. Beer turned out great. Moral of the story, dump that nasty starter beer. I go so far as to pressure can small jars of water for making yeast slurry so that I can pour off as much of it as possible and just save the yeast.
 

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