OLD YEAST :mad:

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Biermann

Reinvented Biermann
HBT Supporter
Joined
Mar 24, 2006
Messages
1,462
Reaction score
32
Location
East Peoria, IL
Ok, the other day, I brewed a Victorian Porter. Good recipe, much anticipated. I found out my wyeast pack (London III) was a propagator and not an activator-- I made a starter, but this was for a 12 gallon batch-- soooooo. . ./

when ready to pitch, I frantically looked for some yeast that would be usable in proper pitching numbers-- I had some harvested WL English Ale, about 1-2 months old, large amount of slurry-- so I pitched it.

Took 36 hours to start, had a vigorous ferment for about 7 days, then essentially stopped--- except it still bubbled about once per 60 seconds.

My FG was where I expected it, and I tasted it-- funny off aroma with a funny off flavor-- o/w it tasted like a Porter.

I guess I need some reassurance-- this was the 3rd generation for this yeast-- I'm afraid it did something a bit different than was expected.
 
Fast fermentation, if 7 days is fast for 12 gallons, can lead to high diacetyl levels (and other by-products for that matter) which will give it an off flavour. The good news is that the yeast will clean that up so long as you leave it on the cake. Give it a week or two as you have nothing to lose. If the batch is crap then it'll be that way in two weeks. If not, you've got some good beer to drink. Bubbling once every 60 seconds is still rather active in my books and it sounds as though the remaining yeast is probably doing exaclty what I said.

The hardest skill to learn when brewing is patience.
 
It doesn't taste like diacetyl-- I've tasted that problem before. Actually there is more of an aroma problem than anything-- I think the flavor will mellow. My concern is if the yeast was either impure or lacked genetic stability-- like I said, essentially, this was the third generation-- I initially made a starter. . . didn't use it, stored it, made another starter, pitched into an amber, then bled it off, stored it, and then used it for the porter.

I'm wondering if the off aroma/flavor is due to the yeast becoming a little "altered."


I think the beer will be drinkable given some time. Although my initial thought was "uh-oh, I f'd this one up."

It still bubbles about once ever 90 seconds, btw, even in secondary--although its a conical fermentor secondary, so I'm sure there's a small yeast cake left. .
 
Well, I take the one bubble per 90 seconds back.

Actually, I looked at my records-- I brewed this back on March 1st. I let it sit in primary until Sunday, when I bled off the trub/yeast. At that time, it was giving off a small bubble every 90 seconds. I went to take a look tonight, and its bubbling again, once ever 20-30 seconds or so. It's actually increased in frequency.

I've never had a yeast pretty much stop, only to revive itself. I think I'll take another gravity reading in about a week. The OG on this was about 1.066, and the initially FG reading was 1.020, which is about in line for the expected attenuation with the English Ale strain I used.

What's up with this??
 
I think my last 4-6 batches have been less than stellar and believe it's been because of stretching the limit on my yeast slurry saving. It's not that I go too deep in generations but it may be 2+ months before I get back to it. I had to dump a 5gl batch because of this I believe.

I think I'll be happy getting 2-3 batches out of a single vial but only if I do it within 4-6 weeks max. I'm hoping that's my case anyways otherwise I got other problems :(.
 
RDWHAHB. Green beer is green beer. Sometimes, my beers that turn out great in the end taste like monkey spit in carboy; other times, beers that taste great in carboy turn up wacked-out in the end. Don't start fretting yet. Once you have two whole 5-gal batches that are spoiled/infected (like me), then you can fret...

mad.gif
 
Update: I kegged this sucker tonight. There was still a sizeable yeast cake that had flocculated out of solution. The beer itself was extremely clear, as expected for WL English Ale yeast, but it still had that sharp, almost sour aroma to it. The taste had mellowed, and tasted pretty much like a porter should. The fermenter smelled like $#it though. I bled CO2 through both kegs, and waited for the smell to dissipate some.

I wonder if this didn't get a small infection from impure yeast?? I know microorganisms normally follow the law of competetive inhibition, but I can't help but wonder.

I think I need to learn a lesson from this: Hard days brew, good recipe, bad yeast= bad beer.

I've never had an infection. ..

Anyone have input on the smells that they experienced with a suspected infection??
 
I've got it. The smell is that of GREEN OLIVES!!

I went to Easter dinner with my folks yesterday, and low and behold, they had green olives there. . . .And something clicked. . .

The off flavor and smell in my porter is the same (albeit much less).

What the F@#$ is the chemical causing this???
 
Biermann said:
I've got it. The smell is that of GREEN OLIVES!!

I went to Easter dinner with my folks yesterday, and low and behold, they had green olives there. . . .And something clicked. . .

The off flavor and smell in my porter is the same (albeit much less).

What the F@#$ is the chemical causing this???

Um, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but...uh oh. This h'aint a chemical, it's a bacterial infection. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the same thing that happened to my first oatmeal stout. Don't be surprised if, in the coming weeks/months, the bottles get increasingly sour, and turn into gushers.

I remember that taste. It pissed me off something awful. It was like...ketchup, and olives, or that sour nasty taste that you get when you drink orange juice right after brushing your teeth.

But hopefully I'm wrong, and it's something else entirely. But just to be safe, I'd pour that yeast down the drain if you haven't already.
 
The yeast was thrown out.

There really isn't any off tastes. Its just an aroma in the porter. I bled off some CO2 from the keg today to get a whiff, and it was pretty much gone. I'm going to put in on tap under pressure, and take a taste in a few days.

Its weird, though, I had the same off aroma in a lager yeast starter recently.

I certainly hope you're wrong though. I'm absolutely careful about sanitation. I even use high proof vodka to sterilize everything followed by flaming the opening to containers that I'm puting recycled yeast in.

Just to be certain that this won't happen again, I iodophored the fermenter this was in, followed by a scalding hot rinse, and now a star san bath is sitting in there.
 
Evan! said:
Um, I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but...uh oh. This h'aint a chemical, it's a bacterial infection. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the same thing that happened to my first oatmeal stout. Don't be surprised if, in the coming weeks/months, the bottles get increasingly sour, and turn into gushers.

I remember that taste. It pissed me off something awful. It was like...ketchup, and olives, or that sour nasty taste that you get when you drink orange juice right after brushing your teeth.

But hopefully I'm wrong, and it's something else entirely. But just to be safe, I'd pour that yeast down the drain if you haven't already.

You got me all worried now. I went and put it on tap. I drew off a glass (flat and warm), and took a whiff and a taste. It tasted like a porter and the off aroma was pretty much gone.

I'm still wondering if this was due to the yeast being old. I have to work a 12 hour shift overnight, so I'll taste it in the AM when I get back home.

If this is an infection, its my first. I certainly hope that it isn't.
 
Back
Top