Beers keep going bad

I have had a terrible after taste on the last 4 batches I have brewed. It was so bad on a lager that I had to dump it. The other batches have been bad but drinkable, and the latest (Octoberfest lager) is also very bad. My others were an IPA and a stout which were not as bad probably because it was masked. The taste has been bad enough on all not to share the beer with friends.

The taste doesn't hit until you pull the beer away. It is minimized by simply drinking the entire beer in one sip, which causes other problems.

My Specs:

• I use kits from reputable online vendors (Northern Brewer, Austin Home Brew)
• I keg
• I always do at least 1 week, then 2 weeks, then force carbonate

My suspected issues:

• I have a small crack in my primary bucket lid, on the side. It was caused by pulling the lid off and it splitting. I have brewed good batches with it, though, so didn't suspect it until now.
• I use pure tap water, and I know our tap water has lime in it. I'm considering boiling all water in advance but don't know if that is the right solution. Again, I used this tap water successfully on batches for about 6 months, then things started going bad.
• I live in Texas, so our indoor temps have been closer to 75 degrees than 70.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts! I have 3 batches waiting to be brewed but am obviously very leery.

~Jared

What's the bad taste? If you can describe it then it will be easier to figure out the source.

Without any recipes or processes or description of this terrible taste it is difficult to help, but here's a shot in the dark..............

Try using bottled water or R/O water for the next batch
Try to keep the beer in the primary longer, like 2-3 weeks or even 4 and forget the secondary
Do not continue fermenting at ambient room temperatures, ales like 62-68 and lagers need to be fermented cold and for a longer time. A swamp cooler is not adequate for lagers either but work for ales
Replace the cracked lid
Evaluate your cleaning and sanitizing process and what products you use.

If you can shed additional light on something of the things I mentioned in terms of process, temperature, description of off flavors, etc. we can help narrow things down or pinpoint problems with what you are doing. If you need help with off flavors look here: http://www.kroc.org/Links/TroubleshootingGuide.htm

You can't make lagers without precise temperature control

Ales are more workable, but still - your problem is most likely temp control, followed by your primary being too short

From what you described in you post, I can think of two things.

It could be your water, brew a batch with bottled spring water from the grocery store. Tap wateroften has chlorine in it at can cause off flavors.

Second get your fermentation temp down. 75 is too warm for most yeasts. If you brewed a lager at those temps , it is definitely way too high.Look up the recommended temp for the yeast you use and try to stay at the low end of that range. Search swamp cooler as a way to easily keep the temps down.

Any other information you can give us will help to pinpoint your problems.

You said you have brewed good batches. Has anything changed at all from those batches?

Thanks, gang. I just ran out of CO2 so won't be able to more precisely pinpoint the taste until I reload tomorrow.

I've brewed many batches using the same process and similar kits, so I think I can safely rule them out as culprits. The lager that was terrible was temperature-controlled in my chest freezer per the instructions, so that makes me scratch my head regarding the fermenting temps for that batch and in general, though it does seem to be the most likely suspect. It's been the same bad taste in all 4 batches, just at varying levels.

More to come in terms of understanding the taste better. Attaching an image of the lid crack.

"Bad taste" is far too generic to troubleshoot. We need a better description.

sorry double post

I don't think the issue is with the crack in your lid unless your doing a long primary or your keeping your fermenter in some odd or funky place. Even then when fermentation takes off airborne critters have a hard time getting in during active fermentation from all the co2 that is gassing off. Do replace it though.

I recommend replacing the following then brewing with bottled spring water. Use SPRING water not distilled or anything labeled "drinking" water".

Replace: All transfer tubing (this is cheap)
Bucket and lid (scratches in bucket can lead to funk and your lid is toast)

Be honest now when was the last time you cleaned your beer lines a faucets? Also pull those kegs apart make sure you have a brush to run through the dip tubes allot of crap can get stuck in there.

Is that a mrbeer fermenter?

beerman0001 said:

Be honest now when was the last time you cleaned your beer lines a faucets? Also pull those kegs apart make sure you have a brush to run through the dip tubes allot of crap can get stuck in there.

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I clean my lines and faucet every two or three kegs. As far as the dip tube, I could transfer to my other keg and see if it is any different.

Toga said:

Replace: All transfer tubing (this is cheap)
Bucket and lid (scratches in bucket can lead to funk and your lid is toast)

Click to expand...

Thanks, I will definitely do both of these. My tubing has started to go off-color. Although I sanitize it thoroughly, I've definitely been meaning to replace it.

Water..just because you get it from the same tap that you got good results from before does not mean that your water is the same as it was at that time.

if your tasting butter, slick mouthfeel, canned corn, cooked veggie, green apple type palate.
these are most of the off flavors attributed by diacetyl. The lager would be the worst culprit if fermented to warm or no d-rest was done at the end of fermentation.

Yeast naturally produce this substance during fermentation but then "clean" it up when fermentation is done.
It is crucial to leave the beer on the yeast long enough so they can do there job and get rid of all those off flavors.

I would recommend fermenting in primary for ATLEAST 2 weeks if not more on high gravity brews racking to keg or bottling and condition for another 2 weeks.
No beer IMHO should be "ready" within 1 month grain to glass

Bringing this back up because I've had a chance to brew another batch with changes that were suggested in the thread. My wife and I felt the green apple taste was most accurate. Another batch that had been fermenting at the time has since finished and it had the same issue, so that made 5 in a row.

I just finished with a stout. I used spring water from the store instead of tap, used a brand new bucket for primary, used new tubes to transfer, and have a brand new double tap system. It was in primary for 3 weeks and secondary for 2. The only things the same as previous batches were the keg, the pots, and the secondary carboy. Even the CO2 tank is a refill.

This new batch has the same #$%^& taste. That makes 6 in a row.

Two things come to mind....
1) As suggested, it could be fermenting too warm. I just have a hard time with this, because I brewed 5 batches in this closet before this started happening without any problems (and dozens at my old house at similar temperatures). I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on a swamp cooler to test the theory, but if that's what it takes....
2) Can the kit ingredients be going bad because I'm not using them quickly enough? The yeast is being refrigerated, but what about the other ingredients?

Any help at this point would be appreciated! I poured out a full keg last night and will pour out two more today. And I have 3 kits waiting for me. Deflating.

Thanks,
Jared

You stated in one post you had a temperature controlled environment and now you are talking about swamp coolers and a designated closet??? Which is it?

As for "Bad Taste" perhaps you should visit this site: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html and try a little better on your description.

If it really is green apples then you are not allowing your beer enough time to properly condition before tapping it and it's just young.

The swamp cooler method can be as simple as a wet t-shirt put around your fermenter with a regular fan blowing on it. It provides the evaporative cooling to the fermenter which helps to keep the temp down.

Another option is a water-tight container that you fill partially with cold water, and put your fermenter into. You would then control the water temperature using ice or frozen 2-liters filled with water. The cool water then controls your fermentation temps

Edit:
I highly doubt it's the ingredients.

You could pick a type of yeast that works better at high temps if you're concerned about the temp.

You could brew a batch with a brewing buddy and go through their process with them. This could give you a new perspective on the process.

What do you use for sanitation? I remember having bad batches in the 90s when I was using bleach and plastic buckets.

How old are your kits? How old is your extract? How old are your grains? What are your FG readings like? You shouldn't have even thought about fermenting a lager at 70 degrees, that beer had no chance from the get-go.

You HAVE to stop using "bad" and "undrinkable" and "****ty" as taste descriptors. That tells us absolutely nothing. Try taking your car to your mechanic and tell him "somethings wrong with it." Based on what little taste descriptors you're giving us, I'm leaning towards wonky fermentation temperatures and/or possible contamination. I was getting some of that green apple **** taste in mine until I really buckled down and got serious about temperature control. 5 degree swings are more than enough to monkey with your beer, especially since you're fermenting at the high end of OK ale fermentation temps in the first place. Honestly I myself don't even go above 67 anymore for most yeast strains.

Jared_from_Subway said:

• I use kits from reputable online vendors (Northern Brewer, Austin Home Brew)
• I keg
• I always do at least 1 week, then 2 weeks, then force carbonate

~Jared

Click to expand...

This though just jumped into my head. Are you doing 2ndry fermentation in your cracked bucket? How are you doing primary AND secondary fermentation in the same vessel? You are possibly highly oxidizing your beer and/or contaminating it during the transfer profess. Secondaries are unnecessary for most beer styles. Extremely high gravity beers, lagers, and most fruit beers can benefit from racking to secondary. Other than that, I don't bother anymore. My last IPA was dry hopped in primary, and was the best IPA I have made to date. Although I only have about half a dozen IPAs under my belt...

TLDR:
-You might be unnecessarily oxidizing your beers depending how you are doing primary/secondary.
-You might also be inadvertently contaminating your beers.
-Your fermentation temperatures are excessive.

Hope this helped.

duboman said:

You stated in one post you had a temperature controlled environment and now you are talking about swamp coolers and a designated closet??? Which is it?

Click to expand...

I stated that my lager that I brewed was temperature controlled in my chest freezer and other batches have been in my indoor closet at between 70 and perhaps 75 degrees during the summer months. So, one batch in the freezer, five in the closet.

I would say your ferm temps are too warm. If thats the case, let the stuff age for a while. If you have the ability to bottle from kegs, bottle the stuff up and shelf it for 2 months or longer, depending on the beer.

How long are you aging the beer before you tap the keg? Is 70-75 the ambient closet temp, or the temp of the fermenting wort?

stpug said:

What do you use for sanitation? I remember having bad batches in the 90s when I was using bleach and plastic buckets.

Click to expand...

I use Star San.

HopsMan said:

How long are you aging the beer before you tap the keg? Is 70-75 the ambient closet temp, or the temp of the fermenting wort?

Click to expand...

This last one was 5 total weeks (3 and 2). 70-75 is the ambient closet temp.

I've been doing this for 5 years and have even done 1 week and 1 week a few times, never having had this problem. Now six straight batches, most of which are 3-4 weeks each, and they are all bad. I hope you are right that it's the timing, but I'm just having a hard time rectifying that suddenly my beers have needed longer to ferment versus the past.

I will get you guys a better description than "green apples" to pinpoint it more. It's an unusual taste for me but I can have others help if I can talk them into tasting it.

Thanks for all the help!

Jared_from_Subway said:

I stated that my lager that I brewed was temperature controlled in my chest freezer and other batches have been in my indoor closet at between 70 and perhaps 75 degrees during the summer months. So, one batch in the freezer, five in the closet.

Click to expand...

Sorry... 70-75 is just way too warm to ferment ales unless you are using a Belgian strain, kolsch or saison. If that's the ambient your beer could have been up in the 80's as fermentation can generate 5-10 degrees of heat. No doubt your beer developed some extreme off flavors and IMO aging them won't help much.

TheBeerist said:

This though just jumped into my head. Are you doing 2ndry fermentation in your cracked bucket? How are you doing primary AND secondary fermentation in the same vessel?

Click to expand...

I use a bucket for primary and carboy for secondary. This last batch I used a brand new bucket for primary, so no crack in the lid.

Jared_from_Subway said:

This last one was 5 total weeks (3 and 2). 70-75 is the ambient closet temp.

I've been doing this for 5 years and have even done 1 week and 1 week a few times, never having had this problem. Now six straight batches, most of which are 3-4 weeks each, and they are all bad. I hope you are right that it's the timing, but I'm just having a hard time rectifying that suddenly my beers have needed longer to ferment versus the past.

I will get you guys a better description than "green apples" to pinpoint it more. It's an unusual taste for me but I can have others help if I can talk them into tasting it.

Thanks for all the help!

Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't know what to say about the beers being good in the past and suddenly changing. Like some of the others have been saying, it could be that the water has changed significantly.

I would look into a way to cool your ferms down though, for a starter. If the ambient temp is 70-75, your fermentation temps could be anywhere from 75-85 or so, depending on how vigorous it is. This will certainly affect the taste...and I know this from experience.

duboman said:

No doubt your beer developed some extreme off flavors and IMO aging them won't help much.

Click to expand...

I'd agree that it won't make them stellar beers, by any stretch, but I happened to ferment a lager at around 70 for the first beer I ever made (not knowing any better), and after about 6 months, it was decent enough to drink. I figure it was better than throwing it all away!

Jared_from_Subway said:

I use a bucket for primary and carboy for secondary. This last batch I used a brand new bucket for primary, so no crack in the lid.

Click to expand...

Skip the secondary this time. Keep the beer in the fermenter for 2 weeks, then keg.

Take apart the keg, if you haven't already, and clean it well- especially in the posts and poppits.

To keep the fermenter cool, sometimes all you need is a cooler and a water bath up to the level of the beer in the fermenter. Add a frozen bottle of water (or two) to keep the water temperature around 64-68 degrees. The beer will be much better!

Where are you in Texas? It seems like on every corner in the cities there is a "Water Machine" to fill up jugs of water. Try that- use 100% RO water for your next batch. Overall, the water in many places in Texas isn't good for brewing.

Also, yeast is important. For now, use only S05 dry yeast to avoid making a starter or underpitching liquid yeast.

Using 100% RO water, the correct amount of dry yeast, and keeping the fermenter between 65-68 degrees (beer temperature, not ambient) should fix the technique part.

Taking apart the keg, replacing all the plastic tubing, and sanitizing well should fix any sanitation issues.

Hopefully, that should fix your flavor issues.

I think your biggest issue is figuring out the taste. Getting a better description of what taste your getting will help determine where that taste came from. Like you said, get some other home brewers or even professional brewers close to you that could help you with the taste? Once you figure what you are tasting, I'm sure the experts on here can pinpoint where your issues are.
Good luck.