Motor Oil stout?

How could I go about thickening up a beer to the point where it's extremely viscous? Would I just add less water and more grains when mashing? Or would I just increase the boil time so that more water boils off?

I had a family member request that I brew a batch that poured really thick, and you almost need to "chew on it" when drinking (I don't want a sludge, just a little thicker than even the biggest stouts)

This is my first recipe, and I'm only so far as designing the grain bill. I haven't decided on the hops yet, I'm just trying to get a list of what to order. (since I have like 20 pounds of hops in my freezer)

For grains I was thinking (5hal batch)

20lbs Maris Otter
8lbs Caramunich III
2lbs Flaked Rye
2lbs De-Husked Carafa III
2lbs De-Bittered Black
1lbs Chocolate Malt
0.75lbs Special B
WLP099 Super High Gravity Ale or Wyeast 1764 Pacman

Is there enough Caramunich and Rye Flakes in there to give it a really thick body? Is 20lbs Maris Otter enough to convert all the specialty grains?
I'm thinking about a longer mash time and a 90 minute boil as well.

The longer you boil, the more concentrated (and carmelized) you are going to make your wort. If this sounds like what you want maybe boil for an hour then start your 60 min boil/hop additions? This would thicken it up....not sure what it may do to the flavor though. Repost on here to let us know what you do and how it comes out!

No choc malt in there?

Good Luck!

Flaked rye is even higher in beta-glucans than oats, a pound or two will really thicken up the body. A few more things you can do for extra body include, low carbonation (prime to <2 volumes of CO2), high OG (extra base malt), and a high FG (carapils and a high mash temp).

Don't go too heavy on the Special B, the flavor can get overbearing at higher levels, say >1 lb (although people argume over what that level is).

I updated the OP with what I'm thinking for a grain bill. I'm placing a big oder at Brewmasters Warehouse today for a bunch of equipment, and I'm hoping to include this in my order.
First original recipe *crosses fingers*

A little malto-dextrine is an easy way to add some body. That beer will be huge with that much grain. If you hit 50% eff for a 5 gal batch that is OG 1.121. I would think about something more along these lines for 5 gal:
7.5 lbs Maris Otter
1 lbs flaked oats
.75 lbs roast barley
.5 lbs choc malt
.5 lbs maltodextrine

and hops between 30-50 IBU (to your taste)
I would mash at 158 and you will get a thick stout.

A stout that big will take forever to age out from all the alcohol content, and might be too sweet to boot. I'd think about doing a closer to normal gravity on the beer and add malto-dextrin. It adds a lot of mouthfeel and body to the beer without a lot of sweetness.

I remember reading that Maris Otter has the ability to convert it's own starchs to sugars, but will also have some left over for specialty grains as well. In looking at recipes for IIPAs, RISs, and other really high-gravity beers, having 20-25 or more pounds of grain isn't uncommon. I just brewed an IIPA that used 23 pounds of grain.
Won't caramunich and carapils both increase the beer's body?

I'll add some malto-dextrine to the mix too. Would about 1lbs be right? (going for really thick here)
For yeast, I'm thinking WLP099 - Super High Gravity Ale or Wyeast 1764 Pacman.

I don't think you need to add malto dextrine as well if you are using all those specialty grains. If you re going to go ahead with a beer that big you need to get a serious yeast plan going. I would look for a yeast that can handle 15% alcohol and make a huge starter.

bbrim said:

I don't think you need to add malto dextrine as well if you are using all those specialty grains. If you re going to go ahead with a beer that big you need to get a serious yeast plan going. I would look for a yeast that can handle 15% alcohol and make a huge starter.

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That's why I was thinking the WLP099. You need to pitch a LOT of yeast, so I was thinking of making a starter, then splitting that one up and growing two from it.
From AHS's site:

• Aerate very heavily, 4 times as much as with a normal gravity beer, because less oxygen dissolves into solution at high gravity.
• Pitch 3-4 times as much yeast as normal.
• Aerate intermittently during the first 5 days of fermentation. This will help yeast cells during a very difficult fermentation. Aerate with oxygen for 30 seconds or air for 5-10 minutes.
• Higher nutrient levels can allow yeast to tolerate higher alcohol levels. Use 2 times the normal nutrient level. This is especially important when using WLP099 to make wine and mead, which have almost no nutrient level to begin with.
• Do not start with the entire wort sugar at once. Begin fermentation with a wort that would produce a 6-8% beer, and add wort (it can be concentrated) each day during the first 5 days. This can be done in combination with the necessary aeration. This step is mandatory to achieve 25% ABV.
• Attenuation: >80%
• Flocculation: Medium
• Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-69 F (18-20.5 C)
• Alcohol Tolerance: +15%

If this was me, I'm not sure id want a beer that fully fermented with the super high gravity yeast. I think its known more for its attenuation and alcohol tolerance than its flavor.

I'd ferment with fairly neutral strain like S-04 or US-05 and then pitch a big starter of the 099 to finish it off.

revised the recipe a bit. I focused more on a few key malts, rather than spreading myself all over.

20lbs Maris Otter
3lbs Caramunich III
1lbs De-Bittered Black
0.5lbs Flaked Rye
1lbs Chocolate Malt
0.75lbs Special B
1lbs maltodextrine
WLP099 - Super High Gravity Ale

I took out the carafa in favor of the caramunich. I kept the De-Bittered Black in there to help it achieve the "dark as Satan's nether-regions" look I want.
specialty grains account for only 23.6% (caramunich says it can be used for up to 30% of the grains according to Weyeman's website)

I like that last recipe better. Much more reasonable on the specialty grains. I'd also ferment it with S-05 before putting in another yeast though. What's your OG calculation for that brew?

According to BeerSmith:
Estimated OG: 1.145
Estimated FG: 1.026
Estimated Color: 64.6 (how dark is that?)
Estimated ABV: 15.81%
IBUs: 46.8

I'm thinking 1oz of columbus and 1oz of centennial, both with 60min left in the boil (boiling for 90min) (that's what I used to calculate the IBUs)

Yikes that is even bigger than my RIS planned for a couple weeks from now. 68.4 is very very dark, darker than the recommended style for RIS (40) so... very black.

conpewter said:

Yikes that is even bigger than my RIS planned for a couple weeks from now. 68.4 is very very dark, darker than the recommended style for RIS (40) so... very black.

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Black as Satan's crotch, or should I add another 0.5-1oz de-bittered black?

How about the hops? Good choice of type/amount? Should I add some chinook? At 15%, I want the beer to still be fairly drinkable though. I know it's not gonna be sessionable, but I don't want to feel like it's a struggle to get through a glass either.

Well I've not seen nor plan to see Satan's nether regions. but the stout you have planned is coming in with a SRM number above any of the recommended style guidelines, so yeah.. it's gonna be black, and hopefully not bitter from that many dark grains.

As for the hops, hard to say, you will definitely have a malt backbone, but you also get bitterness from the roasted grains. For inspiration you could look at Saq's Dark Lord clone as that is a really dark really viscous beer, I'm planning on brewing one similar to that soon.

An idea I was toying with was to add some lactose for some additional flavor and smoothness. This could be my RIMS beer (Russian Imperial Milk Stout)

The nice thing about de-bittered black is-it's just that, all the color of black patent but without the bitterness. I hope age will really improve this beer too (and it's gonna be a loong time)
I definitely wanna keg this one. That way I can just dispense a tiny bit if I wanna taste it, not have to waste an entire bottle.
I'm currently looking at 2oz of columbus and 6 oz of centennial for hops. That puts my IBUs at 160.4. It's going to be bitter as hell at first, but age should mellow it out. I need something to counter the sweetness from all the malts too. (especially if I go with the lactose)

Any feedback on the idea of adding lactose?

conpewter said:

Well I've not seen nor plan to see Satan's nether regions. but the stout you have planned is coming in with a SRM number above any of the recommended style guidelines, so yeah.. it's gonna be black, and hopefully not bitter from that many dark grains.

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I've found that for bigger beers most formulas tend to overestimate the SRM. I believe that this is because during the mash the huge amount of pale malt actually holds onto some of the color from the dark grains (just look at the mash when you are finished sparging). The last RIS I did was ~10% and Promash claims 57 SRM, it certainly isn't roastier/darker than a standard commercial one (still has some red highlights when held to the light).

valicious said:

Any feedback on the idea of adding lactose?

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Wait until bottling, if it tastes like it needs it, add some. That way you don't end up with a beer that is overly sweet.

I agree that you should wait on the lactose. It is too easy to add some in after the fermentation is complete, and not have too sweet a beer. For s stout recipe the only thing I see missing is Roasted Barley. Personally I would back down the Cara Munich III in favor of a 1lb - 2 lbs of Roasted Barley. The Roasted Barley will also help keep the beer from being overly sweet.

Ed

Brewmasters Warehouse said:

I agree that you should wait on the lactose. It is too easy to add some in after the fermentation is complete, and not have too sweet a beer. For s stout recipe the only thing I see missing is Roasted Barley. Personally I would back down the Cara Munich III in favor of a 1lb - 2 lbs of Roasted Barley. The Roasted Barley will also help keep the beer from being overly sweet.

Ed

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New recipe time!

20lbs Maris Otter
2.5lbs Caramunich III
1.5lbs Crisp Roasted Barley
0.75lbs Flaked Oats
1lbs Chocolate Malt
0.75lbs Special B
1lbs maltodextrine
WLP099 - Super High Gravity Ale
6oz centennial
2oz columbus
1lb lactose added at bottling

According to BeerSmith:
Estimated OG: 1.151
Estimated FG: 1.027
Estimated Color: 72.4
Estimated ABV: 16.4%
IBUs: 154.3

I replaced the 1lb debittered black with 1.5lbs roasted barley. I also reduced the caramunich by half a pound.
I also replaced the flaked rye with flaked outs. I heard rye gave a bit of a spicy character, but what I really wanted was the 'sticky' mouthfeel that oats give.

Get ready for a $300 order Ed

Mash high, use flaked oats, maltodextrin, and carapils