using a personal fan inside keezer?

Hey guys hows it going? Had a question.about how to keep my beer lines cool in my. keezer cool. Need a fan and didn't want tto wire something in so was thinking about this
http://mobile.walmart.com/m/phoenix...i-V6-Personal-Air-Circulator-Passion/15907882

What you guys think? How expensive would it be to run this 24/7?

That'll work but it's probably overkill! Shouldn't be expensive to run on low, but they don't say the power or current rating so no way to know. Most of us recommend and use PC fans because they're cheap ($5 at the most), easy to mount and use almost no power. The wiring is as easy as twisting two pairs of wires together! Chances are you have an old DC power supply (can even be an old cell phone charger...) that'll work to power it.

If you're using 120V AC anything inside a keezer where moisture is present, please please please use a GFCI outlet.

ZamaMan said:

Hey guys hows it going? Had a question.about how to keep my beer lines cool in my. keezer cool. Need a fan and didn't want tto wire something in so was thinking about this
http://mobile.walmart.com/m/phoenix...i-V6-Personal-Air-Circulator-Passion/15907882

What you guys think? How expensive would it be to run this 24/7?

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Hi

The fan running cost won't be as much of an issue as it's wear out time. For what ever reason, those fans don't hold up really well running 24/7 in a cold damp environment. Computer fans seem to hold up better.

Putting a 110V anything inside a keezer is not a really good idea. There are just to many ways for things to go wrong. A protected outlet only helps with some of them.

Bob

If it has a full sized cord, you will introduce moisture due to the gap caused by the cord between the seal and the collar- assuming you are going to do it that way since you say you don't want to wire something.

Another issue is that 100% (virtually) of the power used by the fan will be input into your keezer as heat. Assuming most keezers only average ~20W, you may well double the run time, or more, of your keezer.

The small 12VDC PC fans use ~2 watts, and even less when run at 5VDC which provides more than enough circulation when left on 24/7 like any fan should be.

Dont know but I used some little wally world cheapies in mine. They are 120v but the heat they produce is minimal.

LuckyBeagleBrewing said:

Dont know but I used some little wally world cheapies in mine. They are 120v but the heat they produce is minimal.

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The heat they produce is *exactly* equal to the power of the fan, minus some miniscule EMI perhaps. The current on the label probably isn't accurate, and is probably high. A meter would let you know the steady state draw for your application.

Nice collar. Can you give some detail on the layup? I am tired of the 2X8 approach, since I don't have access to a jointer. Unless you can make the collar out of one board, the big side dimension can vary up to 1/4" between 2 boards, not to mention the bow in boards that thick made of pine.

Do you have a single layer cutout on the inside for the faucet area to keep the shanks, and subsequently the faucets, cold?

2x6 box with 1x6 surrounding those boards. I tried to get nice looking 1x6s that I knew would stain up nicely. The top and bottom are 1x3s to give cleaner effect. I stink at woodworking so I cheated to make it look decent. Wood filler works wonders for poor sawing skills in my case. I figure with abut 2.5 inches of wood, it will have a good insulating effect. This is also a 23 cf so I need a little more than a computer fan to circulate. I set it on the switch circuit so it only runs when the freezer is on.

LuckyBeagleBrewing said:

2x6 box with 1x6 surrounding those boards. I tried to get nice looking 1x6s that I knew would stain up nicely. The top and bottom are 1x3s to give cleaner effect. I stink at woodworking so I cheated to make it look decent. Wood filler works wonders for poor sawing skills in my case. I figure with abut 2.5 inches of wood, it will have a good insulating effect. This is also a 23 cf so I need a little more than a computer fan to circulate. I set it on the switch circuit so it only runs when the freezer is on.

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I am all about cheating when building collars. I may try just using 1x6's 1x2, or 4's and building a box collar. the 1x stuff in finished lumber is a little more consistently sized and straighter.

RE: wood insulating factor. I don't remember the number, but it is a crappy insulator compared to foam. As long as you have a fan to control stratification, though, it doesn't add much to the overall heat loss compared to an insulated collar.

RE: Fan on only when freezer is on. The collar area heats up pretty quick during the idle times. Maybe one on the switch, and another on a timer for 5 minutes every 20 or so would keep your faucets cooler. A smaller fan running continuously is more effective, though. Especially blowing from the bottom up aimed right at your shanks. And the longer and more exposed the shanks the better, until they get in the way of things. I have 6", but may get 8" for any additional faucets. However, all this shank envy may be caused by trying to keep faucets cold in a hot garage. Kept in the house, it probably isn't much of an issue.

Nice collar. Can you give some detail on the layup? I am tired of the 2X8 approach, since I don't have access to a jointer. Unless you can make the collar out of one board, the big side dimension can vary up to 1/4" between 2 boards, not to mention the bow in boards that thick made of pine.

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I went with 2x8 for the collar, but then clad the 2x8 in 3/4x10 red oak. This allowed me to have slight overhang on the top (to hide the lid seal) and about a 1 1/2" overhang on the bottom.

It gives a cleaner look, although not anywhere near as good as LuckyBeagle... That sucker is NICE!

bwarbiany said:

I went with 2x8 for the collar, but then clad the 2x8 in 3/4x10 red oak. This allowed me to have slight overhang on the top (to hide the lid seal) and about a 1 1/2" overhang on the bottom.

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My issue was that for a large ~20CF keezer I built, I had no choice but to use two 2x8s. The difference between the two boards wide dim was at least a full 1/4". It made sealing the collar to the chest more difficult. I chose to use the flat side for the lid seal so that I didn't put a set in it, or in case it couldn't accommodate the 1/4" step.

I do like the idea of covering up the collar to lid and chest interfaces with a fascia board though. If I do that, I will mount the shanks to the fascia board, and bore out the 2x8 to allow air circulation to as much shank as possible. Having an equivalent inch+ shorter shank to play with is no fun- TWSS.

LuckyBeagleBrewing said:

Dont know but I used some little wally world cheapies in mine. They are 120v but the heat they produce is minimal.

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Hi

The reason they pull current, but don't heat up a lot is "power factor". A cheap fan motor is basically an inductive load. A pure inductance will draw current at AC, but produce no heat. That makes the normally reliable "check it with a current meter" approach a but less useful.

Bob

carlisle_bob said:

Hi

The reason they pull current, but don't heat up a lot is "power factor". A cheap fan motor is basically an inductive load. A pure inductance will draw current at AC, but produce no heat. That makes the normally reliable "check it with a current meter" approach a but less useful.

Bob

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No need to over-complicate things, again.
Regardless of power factors and other issues like motor efficiency, 100% of the real power being used by the motor will go to heat inside the keezer. The imaginary part, too. (See, I can do it, too.)

A cheap clamp meter will be more than close enough to see how much power is being drawn, and a fancy Fluke one can give you true power with a power factor correction. Although I usually hear power factor being used as it relates to multiphase balancing. (Oops, did it again.)

Yeah what luckybeagalbrewing did was what I was thinking. Though I'm not oppossed to using a computer fan if its as simple as twisting two wires. How would i work? I know the fan has some special plug so would i just cut and strip some wire ajd do the same to a phone cord tthan twist the two together and seal em? Any pictures of what it would look like? The simplier the better
thanks guys

ZamaMan said:

Yeah what luckybeagalbrewing did was what I was thinking. Though I'm not oppossed to using a computer fan if its as simple as twisting two wires. How would i work? I know the fan has some special plug so would i just cut and strip some wire ajd do the same to a phone cord tthan twist the two together and seal em? Any pictures of what it would look like? The simplier the better
thanks guys

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Exactly as easy as you just described.

Cannibalize some piece of gear with a fan- as small as 2" is big enough, but the 4" fans common in PCs are probably the most widely used. They can be bought for ~$5 if you don't have anything to raid.
Find an old cell phone charger or any wall wart that supplies from 5VDC to 12VDC. The higher the voltage, the faster the fan will spin. The real lightweight wall warts are much more efficient, and accurate, than the heavy ones. Just make sure that if the voltage of the charger is less than the rating of the fan, it is enough to get it spinning, and it spins fast enough to move enough air, which isn't much. You don't want to overvolt too much either, but a 5VDC fan will probably tolerate a 12VDC supply. It will just die an early death.
Cut the wires to both the fan and the charger, and twist them together- preferably with at least a couple of wire nuts. Getting the +- correct will make the fan more efficient, since it will spin the right way. It will work either way, though.
Place it in the bottom of your keezer using something to hold it off the bottom to allow some air intake, and aim it at your shanks.
Plug it into the wall.
Done.

There are more sophisticated methods for every step, but those are the basics. Speed controllers, duct tubes, timers, and more have been done.

cwi said:

No need to over-complicate things, again.
Regardless of power factors and other issues like motor efficiency, 100% of the real power being used by the motor will go to heat inside the keezer. The imaginary part, too. (See, I can do it, too.)

A cheap clamp meter will be more than close enough to see how much power is being drawn, and a fancy Fluke one can give you true power with a power factor correction. Although I usually hear power factor being used as it relates to multiphase balancing. (Oops, did it again.)

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Hi

That's nonsense.

Bob

carlisle_bob said:

Hi

That's nonsense.

Bob

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Exactly which part?
Or, are you just providing your usual degree of enlightenment?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservation_of_energy

That is all.

Wow lots of great info. If I get a chance to do any upgrades to the keezer I am thinking of the cycling fan idea but for now, it is keeping the beer cold and not cycling a lot. When I put those fan in, I siliconed the length of the wire channel. I might put some foam on it later too but now I am trying to build up the brewed beer supply which has lapsed. cwi is right and there will be heat generated from these. Probably a lot more than computer fans but I am also keeping this thing in an air conditioned house so that helps.

And did I mention it is keeping the beer nice and cold.

Since your fans are only on when the freezer is on, which should only be ~2 hours per day max, they are not adding much heat due to being oversized. As long as you aren't having issues with foaming beer or hot faucets, no need to modify things. Being kept inside definitely helps mitigate lots of temp issues.

You might keep an eye out for some computer fans just to play with. I have seen some ducted versions using common PVC fittings to direct the air from the bottom to the shanks. It made for a clean unobtrusive look, but not as impressive looking as your lid fans, though. Reminds me of the dash of 18 wheeler cabs I used to see on the highway as a kid.