How Fast is Fast? My DIY Immersion Chiller -2 parallel 20'x3/8" coils

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htc

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I spent a long time looking at the immersion chiller threads and google image searches trying to come up with the best bang-for-my-buck design for a wort chiller. It was built with 3/8" OD soft tubing, and 1/2" hard pipe and fittings.

I'm not going to go into theory for two reasons: one, because that's covered elsewhere on this site in unfathomable depth; and two, 'cause I've been celebrating the success of my handy work and I'm in no condition... In summary, use small diameter tubing (cause it's cheap) in short runs ('cause it heats up fast) throughout the wort (so's to spread around the coolin')
There. Theory.

My success? No brew today, but I got anxious and tested the chiller on 5 gallons of water on the stove-top. Using 52 degree F water from the garden hose I went from boiling to 70 degrees in roughly 5 minutes.

I say roughly, because I turned on the hose before I readied the timer on my phone, and the back pressure from the in-line ball valve caused a leak, so I opened it and started chilling to avoid death by wife due to flooded kitchen. There was probably about 15-20 seconds worth of panic before I gave up looking for the timer and realized the microwave has a clock.

I did manage to steady the camera to do the fancy talking for me. :)
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Very nice. One practical consideration: Sometimes when I'm making a big IPA or American Barleywine I use a TON of hops and consequently hop bags. I find with my 50 IC that I barely have enough room in the middle of the rings to put the hop bags while I chill/whirlpool. This design looks like it may make whirlpooling a bit of a challenge.

That said, I'm very impressed and have been hashing out a HERMS coil in my head and this could work out very very well. Seems like minimal recoiling to boot?

Nice work.
 
I kind of like this idea for getting around the element in my electric kettle. It would eliminate the need for clever bending and wiggling for placement.

Nicely done.
 
Seems like minimal recoiling to boot?
Barely any recoiling, it basically comes in that shape. I just tightened it up starting in the center and worked my way out one side at a time.

As far as whirlpooling goes, I was planning on using a drill powered paint stirrer through the center of the coils - not fast enough to draw a vortex, but enough to move the wort with some vigor. But since you mention it, whole hops might make things interesting and hop bags of any useful size are definitely off the table.
 
That is very ingenious designs, I'm thinking about making one myself.
 
Thanks for the feedback!

Another perk to this design - it's expandable. So far the coils are about 8" in height from the bottom of the kettle, I have room for another set under 5 gallons worth of wort in my turkey fryer. If/when I move to boiling in a keggle, all I'll have to do is cut the risers, add some coils and the chiller will grow with my system.

Also worth considering - I was planning on using Bobby_M's method of soldering a barbed x garden hose fitting over the end of the riser, but when looking at water supply fittings I found 1/2" pipe x 1/2" MIP thread adapters and the corresponding garden hose adapter to be a cheaper alternative. It also adds the benefit of adaptability - almost everything can connect to 1/2" MIP thread.
 
Actually I heard the copper is good for your wort and recommended, to place it in the wort for the boil. I heard that from brew strong podcasts.
 
Actually I heard the copper is good for your wort and recommended, to place it in the wort for the boil. I heard that from brew strong podcasts.

Ashton Lewis from Brew Your Own (amongst others) doesn't seem to think so...

"Brass, Copper and Carbon Steel should never touch beer... Ever", to quote his book.

My immersion chiller is copper with a fair bit of solder. Personally I have no beef with copper or solder :D
 
SimonB said:
Ashton Lewis from Brew Your Own (amongst others) doesn't seem to think so...

"Brass, Copper and Carbon Steel should never touch beer... Ever", to quote his book.

My immersion chiller is copper with a fair bit of solder. Personally I have no beef with copper or solder :D

So in brew your own Palmer says copper is beneficial to yeast. Copper is bad though if it builds a layer of verdigris.

http://***********/stories/projects...d-it-yourself/1149-metallurgy-for-homebrewers
 
Not knocking your design, I think it's pretty cool. However, you could have built a counterflow chiller that uses 1/2 that amount of copper and just as (if not more) efficient. Again, kudos for thinking outside the box and I'm sure it works great.
 
Not to take this too far off subject, but counterflows are not always the best option for all rigs. My personal setup is built to whirlpool the kettle, in which case I can kill two birds with one stone by using an immersion chiller with the added bonus of not having to worry about cleaning the inside of a chiller or losing flow rate required for good whirlpool-age. Of course, this situation does not pertain to everybody. What should be taken away from this design is the concept of cooling coils set at specific heights without having to bend your chiller to look like it came out of the front suspension of a Dodge Caravan. (Variable rate spring humor, anybody?)

Now what I am most curious about is the dynamic flow of water through what are essentially manifolds. The pressure inside a vessel is equal throughout the vessel only applies to a static environment. Since you have fluid flow and restrictions (tubing sized down from 1/2 to 3/8) I'm wondering if the return manifold might hinder flow through the lower coil. I doubt any hindrance will be very much, but much like the cat, sometimes I just gotta know!

So, HTC, I was wondering if you might happen to own an IR temp gun or some form of thermometer that might quickly and accurately measure the temperature of the outside of those coils. And if you do, would you be a sport and hook that chiller up to a hot water source then monitor the rise in temperature of the two coils as it heats up? I'm sure that eventually the two will hit equilibrium. But I wonder if the upper coil might warm up a little quicker than the lower. To quote Bill Nye, SCIENCE RULES.
 
So, HTC, I was wondering if you might happen to own an IR temp gun or some form of thermometer that might quickly and accurately measure the temperature of the outside of those coils. And if you do, would you be a sport and hook that chiller up to a hot water source then monitor the rise in temperature of the two coils as it heats up? I'm sure that eventually the two will hit equilibrium. But I wonder if the upper coil might warm up a little quicker than the lower. To quote Bill Nye, SCIENCE RULES.

The more I think about this, the less I think turbulence in the "out" manifold is going to matter, but I would still love to see that come true in an experiment.
 
If it's lead free what's it matter... You have solder on your houshold hot plumbing lines probably...

But your household plumbing carries water at no more than about 130F, not boiling wort at a pH in the 5's. I'm not arguing whether or not it's a problem (I doubt it is) but household water vs. wort isn't really a fair comparison. They are vastly different conditions to expose metals to.
 
But your household plumbing carries water at no more than about 130F, not boiling wort at a pH in the 5's. I'm not arguing whether or not it's a problem (I doubt it is) but household water vs. wort isn't really a fair comparison. They are vastly different conditions to expose metals to.

I can see that point... :mug:
 
tektonjp said:
Nice, but I'd personally rather not have all that solder sitting in my wort.
The Worthington/Lenox Lead Free Solder MSDS says it contains Tin, Copper, and Selenium. Copper and Selenium are both metabolized and used by the body, however, tin is not. Like everything else in the world, they all show toxicity at certain levels. Still, I drive on public roadways, spend time in the sun, and consume alcoholic beverages while trying not to think about my inevitable demise. ;)

What are the lengths of the coils in each level?
The coils are 20 ft in length

brew2enjoy said:
...you could have built a counterflow chiller that uses 1/2 that amount of copper and just as (if not more) efficient.
I considered in-line chillers, but I like the idea of chilling the whole batch in the kettle before transferring. And I don't want to have to use a pump to do it.

So, HTC, I was wondering if you might happen to own an IR temp gun or some form of thermometer that might quickly and accurately measure the temperature of the outside of those coils. And if you do, would you be a sport and hook that chiller up to a hot water source then monitor the rise in temperature of the two coils as it heats up? I'm sure that eventually the two will hit equilibrium. But I wonder if the upper coil might warm up a little quicker than the lower.

I had this same concern, and after obsessing over various designs for balancing flow I realized that I have limited funds, tools, and metalworking experience (as displayed by my beautiful solder drips and runs :D), and the fittings I included in my plans didn't actually exist. In the end I decided to keep it simple and ditch the Frankenstein designs.

To answer your question, I do not have a temp gun. But you have inspired me to test the variance between the coils. I'm worried that even with an isntant readout, the low specific heat of the tubing would cause a temperature change too rapid to measure for any idea of flow rate. But, I have an idea. I could lay the chiller horizontally and submerge the coils in separate water baths (of similar volume) and monitor their respective temperature change. This would prolong the reading and measure the total transfer of heat over time, directly correlating to flow... in a horizontal orientation. How much effect would you suppose gravity would have on flow?
 
I have an idea. I could lay the chiller horizontally and submerge the coils in separate water baths (of similar volume) and monitor their respective temperature change. This would prolong the reading and measure the total transfer of heat over time, directly correlating to flow... in a horizontal orientation. How much effect would you suppose gravity would have on flow?

I like where your head is at. Watching the change in temperature of a volume of water would indeed give your data better resolution. Being a natural blonde, I had not considered orienting the device sideways!

Household water pressure ranges from something like 30-80psi (depending on city or well water), so I think with all the flow and turbulence that the affect of gravity can be considered negligible for the purposes of our testing. If they start brewing beer in space, perhaps then we can justify being so precise. <---Wait, that doesn't make sense, does it?

To repeat, I think that my (our?) initial concerns are unwarranted. The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that we will find the two coils to heat (or cool) at nearly the same rate, if not identically. But if there is one thing that I like as much as science, it is fun. So let's make this fun, FOR SCIENCE!

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I bet ONE THOUSAND INTERNETS that you (we, vicariously?) find that the two coils change temperature at roughly the same rate.:D
 
I bet ONE THOUSAND INTERNETS that you (we, vicariously?) find that the two coils change temperature and roughly the same rate.:D

You're right! Umm...too bad we didn't shake on it... the bet is off!

Here's what I did... and my girlfriend thinks I'm nuts btw, but she is supportive and did help during the experiment.

I lined a milk crate with a towel and filled half of its available space with two empty milk jugs (they fit perfectly!) The other half I divided into two narrow sections with a tight fitting, folded piece of cardboard to act as an insulator and provide some structure. I lined those sections with doubled up trash bags and filled them with equal amounts of cold water from the tap, roughly 10 pints each. I submerged the coils in their water baths and connected the chiller to the hot water supply feeding the washing machine (measured at 131.2 degrees if you're as curious as I was). I then measured the temperature of the water baths. I had my lovely assistant start the timer while I turned on the hot water and began measuring. Because I only have one decent thermometer, I had her alert me in 10 second intervals to record the temperature and move the probe to the other reservoir. We did this until the measurements showed only a small change and finally a repeated result. At that time I confirmed the repeated result was was also the temperature of the water leaving the chiller. We were done. Confused? I made a graph. And a data table.
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The graph starts at 50 degrees, and the horizontal lines represent increments of 2 degrees. The vertical lines represent increments of 10 seconds. The green line represents the top coil and the red line represents the bottom coil of the chiller.

Also, note that I did not agitate the water baths during the test, and I did try to maintain the location from which my measurements were taken (roughly 1/2 inch from coils).

The results are pretty clear. There is negligible difference in the transfer of heat for each coil, which I correlate with a negligible difference in flow rate. The apparent higher performance of the top coil early on in the experiment is most likely due to human error.
 
That is awesome! Here I just went out drinking with a friend to a series of craft beer events... I missed out on all this steamy hot science! Lolcatz.

Thank you for doing the foot-work. My next chiller will look very similar to your own, only perfectly spaced to fit around the 5500 watt element in my kettle.

BILL BILL BILL BILL!
 
So, htc, great minds, right?!?!

I built this a couple of weeks ago. It has 4 x 25' 3/8 copper. I did not want any connections to be inside the kettle, so all of the lines arch over the edge of the pot into a manifold. I very unscientifically used my highly calibrated finger to gauge the effluent temperature and it seemed to be similar across all of the coils. I have been very impressed with it's efficiency. I thought I would post a picture for those who are concerned about having solder joints immersed in wort. That said, I did solder a few places where the tubing crossed to give it a little more stability.

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So, htc, great minds, right?!?!
Holy Cow!!! That thing is awesome! What kind of chill times are you getting with 100 feet of coil? It looks like we had about the same shopping list...

I'm diggin' the quick disconnect btw. I definitely hate screwing the garden hose onto the chiller. Does it leak at all?
 
Htc,

I haven't timed it. I want to make an easy way to be able to suspend the chiller so the uppermost coil is just below the surface of the wort to maximize convection. Once that's done, I can time it with and without agitating the wort. My ultimate goal is efficient cooling times without any user intervention.

Adam
 
Finally time for an update! I tested the chiller last month; 5 gallon final volume, low chilling water hose measured in the low 40's,

Timed from Boiling:

to 150°F in 1:57
to 125°F in 2:48
to 100°F in 4:21
to 63°F in 9.22!!! :mug:
 
For anyone that has made this adapted / upgraded Immersion chiller, have you tested what the temp is coming out compared to the temp in the kettle? I wonder if more 4 shorter coils spread out more vertially.

Just a question, I am going to hopefully build this in the next week or so, too bad copper is so expensive now.
 
I'm wondering why you used T joints for the two 'bottom' connections, did you just not have any 90's?

I'm not sure if HTC had other plans, or why the bottom "legs" were uneven in length, but whenever I get around to building one this design, I will be using those to space to coils off the bottom to avoid my heating element.
 
I'm wondering why you used T joints for the two 'bottom' connections, did you just not have any 90's?

Sorry I missed your reply. I didn't use 90's because I wanted to keep the bottom coil off of the bottom of my kettle, mostly to minimize chiller contact with the kettle and maximize wort contact. I know it wouldn't be much, but every little bit helps.

As far as the uneven legs go. Chalk that up to poor engineering. I tried to remove the cap on the longest leg and shorten it, but it takes an incredible amount of heat to un-solder a sweated joint.
 
I'm wondering why you used T joints for the two 'bottom' connections, did you just not have any 90's?

Sorry I missed your reply. I didn't use 90's because I wanted to keep the bottom coil off of the bottom of my kettle, mostly to minimize chiller contact with the kettle and maximize wort contact. I know it wouldn't be much, but every little bit helps.

As far as the uneven legs go. Chalk that up to poor engineering. I tried to remove the cap on the longest leg and even it, but it takes an incredible amount of heat to un-solder a sweated joint and I just couldn't pull it off.
 
I think I just found the design for my next IC.

P.S. Don't assume that there isn't any water left in your IC and leave it in your unheated garage in the winter...
 
You're right, that design does make it a pain to drain the water from. I try to rotate it around the coils to get it empty, but it lives indoors so it's not a worry.
 
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