B.C. Pale Ale

I posted the following thread about 9 months ago about pale ales I had last time I went to B.C. Canada. They were an awesomely malty style, almost no detectable hops and it tasted like liquid bread (only way to describe it).

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/canadian-pale-ales-298492/

Now, I am trying to put together a recipe with the liquid bread flavor that British Columbian style pale ales have. I can't seem to find much information on these other than on beer advocate. However, the beer I remember most (Powerhouse Pale Ale by Begbie Brewery) has this description from the brewery: A generous portion of lightly roasted malt gives this beer a smooth yet distinctive character. That makes me think victory malt. Also in the thread above, Nugent mentioned the use of chocolate malt in those types of ales.

As such, I am thinking of the following recipe (5.5G):
9 lbs American 2-row (maybe Canadian 2-row if my LHBS has some)
1 lb Victory Malt
.5 lbs Crystal 45L
.25 lbs Pale Chocolate Malt

.5oz Nugget @60
.5oz EKG @30

Wyeast British Ale

OG:1.053
FG:1.013
IBU:32-35 (depending on the program used)
SRM:12

Is this going to get me what I am looking for? I was also thinking of reducing the crystal and/or chocolate by half, and/or increasing the victory up to 1.5 lbs, but I don't know exactly what that will get me. I am worried I will end up with something that tastes like fat tire, which is not what I am shooting for.

have you tried emailing some breweries? if the technique is a regional style, it's unlikely to be a secret.

Full disclosure: This recipe was taken from Dan's Homebrewing in Vancouver's website.

Granville Island Pale Ale is one of the BC malty pale ales. Might help.

Granville Island Pale Ale - O.G. - 1.048

10 lb Pale Malt
8 oz British crystal
4 oz carapils malt
1 oz chocolate malt

8 AAU Northern Brewer 60 minutes
.75 oz Cascade finishing hops

ale yeast

Fairly dark, for a pale ale, malty, a bit sweet, but the hops do come through, especially when consumed with barbequed food.

Well I just emailed the brewery, so hopefully I'll get a response soon. However, I was wondering what people thought was giving the beer its bready flavor. Is it the yeast, a specialty grain, or just a high mash temp with a clean yeast?

They could be using Vienna or Munich malt for a portion of the base grains. That gives a bready/toasty flavor. Or you might try using a British pale malt like Maris Otter instead of domestic 2-row.

I haven't heard from the brewery yet, but I am preparing for a brew day and I am thinking of brewing the following recipe for my first attempt at this style.

Batch size: 5.5G
9 lbs UK Pale Malt
2 lbs Victory Malt
2 oz UK Chocolate Malt

1 oz Challenger @60
.25 oz Glacier @60 (to reach 31 IBUs)
.5 oz Glacier @Flameout

Wyeast 1968 @62deg F (Edit: will be using Wyeast 1098)

Mash: Single Infusion @152deg F

OG:1.056
FG:1.011-1.013
IBU: 31
SRM: 13

A few questions:
1) Is there a better choice of yeast to get me a clean malt-forward flavor?
2) Should I be mashing at a lower temp? Attenuation with the 1968 is putting the FG at 1.018 which seems way too sweet for this.
3) Is there anything else I should consider?

I always hear biscuit malt mentioned as giving warm bread notes to a beer. I've used it in milds, but never in a pale ale.

I would just use a neutral yeast like US-05. It will attenuate better than 1968. Plus with that recipe if you use an ESB yeast, you're making an ESB. If you want it to be a pale ale, I would use a california yeast. Good luck with your brew!

ong said:

I always hear biscuit malt mentioned as giving warm bread notes to a beer. I've used it in milds, but never in a pale ale.

Click to expand...

I think bicuit and victory are very similar.

And I forgot to mention in my last post that your recipe looks pretty good for what you're going for! Cheers!

I'd use a more neutral British yeast like WY1098. Will attenuate more but leave some esters behind.

BC pale ales are very much like ESB's or Best Bitters. Granville Island Brewery's English Bay Pale Ale is the classic. The recipe from Dans Homebrew looks close but GIB's English Bay is the beer most commonly found in my fridge other then home brew. It doesn't have cascade hops. Id use Fuggles, First Gold or EKG for the finishing hops, go easy there is little to no hop aroma in these beers. Bitter with northern brewer or Centennial (these are all hops that are grown here in BC from what I am told). Cut the chocolate to 1 oz its mostly for colour. Also use a neutral English ale yeast, american ale yeasts are not common in BC Craft Brewery's (yes I know GIB is owned by Molsen sadly very few truly independent brewery's still exist in BC, most that are left are barely bigger than brew pubs and don't get much distribution outside of their local area, one of the many reasons I brew my own). They brewery's here tend to emulate European beer styles. Mostly English and Belgian.

I am doing this BC Pale Ale (in Beer Smith I list it as a best bitter as that is closest IMO) soon for an office Xmas party.

(5 gallons)
2# maris otter
4# pale lme
.5# carastan 35L
.5# turbinado

20 grams northern brewer 60 mins
10 grams fuggles 20 mins
(Keeping ibus low so as to not make bmc drinkers cry. These beers tend to be very malt forward any ways.)

Safale S04 yeast @ 68F

For all grain I would mix Maris Otter and Canadian 2 row (Gambrinus is best its a Malting house located here in BC and is commonly used by Craft Breweries here) or use all 2 row and add 1 pound Biscuit probably will want some Carapils too, that's already in my LME. I still don't know if I will add any chocolate malt, I'm leaning towards no. Sometimes simple is better. Commercial breweries actually tend to have simple grain bills because....well its cheaper.

So, I brewed the recipe below and it didn't turn out like I had planned. I was aiming for something nice and bready, but instead it tasted like a watered down version of my ESB, lightly fruity and distinct english yeast character. I used British Ale Wyeast yeast at 65F, it didn't have a bready taste at all.

Recipe designed for 75% efficiency
Mashed at 66.5C

9 lbs Maris Otter
1 lb Biscuit
4 oz crystal 45L
4 oz carapils
1 oz chocolate Malt (British)

1.6 oz (31IBU) Glacier at 60 min
.25 oz at flameout

OG:1.053
FG:1.008

Any ideas? Should I use the american II yeast or maybe the scottish yeast? I don't want fruity esters, but I want a malty bready flavor.

Regardless, I think I need to use a different yeast, but I am torn between 1) using the same recipe with a higher mash temp, and 2) completely rethinking the recipe. I'm uncertain with what yeast to go with, at this point I might try american ale yeast and see what happens, unless someone thinks something else will work better.

1) I was thinking of mashing at around 156F, which I haven't done much and am dubious about how it might come out mashing that high.
2) What exactly is considered "lightly roasted" malts? Does that term include Vienna and Munich, or is it only reserved for biscuit/victory/amber/special roast? And if it is more inclusive than I originally thought, what about adding 2 lbs of vienna?

Thoughts?

If you want it to be maltier you will have to change the recipe. Yeast can bring maltiness forward, but it has to have the maltiness you want in the recipe to begin with. British ale yeast is a pretty malt forward yeast, so I think it's a good choice.

Mashing higher will not add maltiness/bready flavors either. It will only increase long chain dextrines which will increase mouthfeel and perhaps sweetness.

I would replace some of your base malt with Vienna or Munich and maybe add some aromatic or melanoidin malt. 2 pounds of Vienna or Munich is a good start, but they both have enough enzymes to convert themselves so you could go as high as you want with those. I believe Munich is slightly maltier than Vienna. And maybe add about 0.5 pound of aromatic.