hoegaarden clone

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pcolson

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I recently had a beer named hoegarden or something like that it was a belgian whit beer i was wondering if anyone knew a clone for it? i looked on beertools.con found nothing... stuff is really good...
 
my friend made the clone from clonebrews (or was it beer captured?...one of those.) it was awfully tasty, but it didn't taste like a hoegaarden and it was much darker of course (any extract recipe will be.)
 
I want to make a hoegaarden clone very badly but most recipes claiming that title look much like many other wit recipes. I don't know how to capture whatever flavor it is that makes hoegaarden so good. My best idea is to culture the yeast from a bottle of it.
 
hmm i must find this badly i really love this beer! i have a 6 pack waiting in the fridge for when i get off work!
 
As in flaked wheat? Put this in beersmith terms for me please:D

no, unmalted wheat. raw, unmalted wheat.

you'll have to add it to beersmith ;) but first you have to find it...

torrified wheat is as close as i can get at my LHBS, but it has made an incredible difference in my wheat beers. gives it a brilliant wheat flavor.
 
also, use white wheat as it will give a lighter color, pilsner malt, SMALL amounts of coriander and orange peel.

damnit, now i'm going to have to make a hoegaarden clone. i think i'll pick up a 6-pack tonight for study :D

i'll discuss with my genius brewing buddy, too. we'll figure this on out and i'll post in the next few days.
 
highgravitybrew.com has a pretty great clone. called lady in white. friends were impressed and it was my first brew. its extract with specialy grains but they do have mini mash and all grain as well.
 
I've made a Wit Beer based on Jamil's recipe thats tastes damn close me thinks. I changed a few things thoug. Instead of using orange zest I used about a 3/4 jar of marmalade ( something like 6 oz I think) and used Wyeast Forbidden Fruit (3463) yeast. Fermented it high at 78- 80 and after it mellowed out a bit, tastes great. That yeast though, is a stinker and does produce some funky flavors at first. It is supposed to be the Hoegarden yeast.
 
no, unmalted wheat. raw, unmalted wheat.

you'll have to add it to beersmith ;) but first you have to find it...

torrified wheat is as close as i can get at my LHBS, but it has made an incredible difference in my wheat beers. gives it a brilliant wheat flavor.

Go to any health food store and they should have several different types of raw bulk wheat
 
a hoegaarden story:

It was around this time last year, (ok, april...) that a friend and I got to spend a few days in London, before we were to fly out to France. Anyways, having been acquainted with cask-ale the year before in the states (our local Middle Ages Brewing co puts out a nice selection) I set out to find a pub that had a good selection of real ale. After lots of walking about and many side trips into random pubs to try the local brew, my friend and I finally found a pub that had cask-ale and a large selection of draught beer that I had never heard of. So after a few pints of the warm "real-ale" I decided to take a break and try a beer that I had never had. I ordered a Hoegaarden.

Having tried Hoegaarden, I was hooked. For the next few days I drank the stuff at every possible opportunity and while in France continued to do the same. (Though, i have since realized that there are far superior witbiers out there)

A few days later I was at a bar in Nantes France, when I met a guy from Texas while talking about Hoegaarden, and came to find out he was a homebrewer and had worked abroad in the brewing industry. At that time my homebrewing experience was limited to a Mr. Beer 'Canadian pils' kit - that I royally f-ed up. Anyhow, we got talking about homebrewing and he told me how I could brew something similar to Hoegaarden. So interested in doing so, I had him write me down a list of ingredients and things I needed, ect. One of the ingredients: Unmalted wheat berries.

Months later and back in the States, I tried to brew the recipe he had given me. It contained pale malt, flaked wheat, raw wheat berries, Saaz / East K. Golding hops, and Coriander / Bitter Orange peel. Though, he didn’t give me the specifics amounts of each. Undeterred, I got the ingredients together and after reading a few books on brewing and lots of help from my LHBS, brewed my first ‘real’ beer.

The result was very similar to Hoegaarden in everything but the aftertaste. The color was nearly spot on; it had a wonderful head and good flavor. The only downside, the aftertaste was god-awful. Like eating yeast sludge.

So yes, I imagine unmalted wheat should be included in the recipe – and I think my next brew might just have to be a Hoegaarden clone.:D

Thanks
 
Go to any health food store and they should have several different types of raw bulk wheat

i think i can find something around here...thanks :mug:

Is a separate mash required for unmalted wheat? I heard on the Jamil show that a separate mash (coupled with boiling the cereals) with a decoction is required. Is that right?

i think it would benefit from a decoction. never heard about the separate mash. i'll look into it more...

in regards to ingredients, so far i'm leaning towards:

70% wheat: half unmalted, half white wheat
30% pilsner

For 5 Gal:
0.5 oz coriander
o.25 oz bitter orange peal

i'm also thinking about small amounts of sweet orange peel, camomile, and other spices (in VERY small amounts)

hops will include the possibility of tettnanger, saaz, hallertau and/or styrian goldings.
 
here's a good article: http://www.realbeer.com/spencer/Belgian/white-brewing.html

most important part to me, looks like i'm doing a protein rest:

Museums use wheat starch as a glue, and once you mash in you'll see why. Start with a loose mash using two quarts of water per pound, and plan on using an extended protein rest (45 mins-1 hour) at anything between 117 and 126 degrees farenheit. This is how the Belgians do it, and you'll be amazed at how the proteolytic enzymes work a mess of wallpaper paste into a light, workable mash. Never has the miracle of mashing been better demonstrated.

The white beer protein rest offers a tradeoff. If you run the rest longer (1 hour) you'll get an easily spargeable mash, but the final beer may be clearer and less colorful than you want beer; rests of 45 minutes or less give wonderful color, but can be sticky to lauter. Personally I use 45 minutes and watch the lauter tun carefully. If you're willing to sacrifice some authenticity, you can substitute several pounds of malted wheat for a portion of the unmalted variety.

looks like i'll be doing a short protein rest. some rice hulls probably won't hurt either. i'll still use a portion of malted white wheat, but perhaps a smaller percentage. we'll add oat flakes as well.

it doesn't seem like mashing the unmalted wheat by itself would have any benefit, as it doesn't have any enzymes. i'm not sure about boiling it.

i'm going to go with all styrian goldings for this brew. i think i can still get the belgian wit II (WLP410) but supposedly the WLP400 is the hoegaarden strain. we'll see how that works out. i recently made a black/wit with WLP410 and torrified wheat and it was amazing.

i think i'll use the yeast cake for this batch to make the black/wit again, but with a higher gravity to make it more of a dark strong ale, maybe 9%...similar to Trois Pistoles.
 
ya know, i wonder if they use something to lighten the body...i have half a mind to add a pound of flaked maize to this batch...

EDIT: looks like they may use a smaller percentage of wheat to get the lighter body. maybe i'll only go with 50% wheat and 50% pilsner...
 
http://www.highgravitybrew.com/docs/LadyInWhite.pdf

Ingredients
5 lbs Briess Bavarian Wheat DME
0.5 lb. Flaked Wheat
0.5 lb. Melanoidin
0.25 lb. Flaked Oats
1 oz W.G.V. pellet hops (Bittering)
0.5 oz W.G.V. pellet hops (Flavor)
0.5 oz Czech Saaz pellet hops (Finishing)
0.75 oz Bitter Orange Peel
1 ¼ tsp Coriander
¼ tsp Cumin
1 tsp. Irish moss
3/4 cup corn sugar to prime
Wyeast 3463

Mini-Mash Instructions
Reduce the Briess DME to 3 lbs.
Add 2.5 lbs Weyermann Pilsner
Malt and increase flaked wheat to
1.25 lbs.
Mash pale malt with specialty malts
in 1 gallon of water to get a single
infusion mash temperature of 150°
F for 60 minutes. Sparge with hot
water of 170° F or more to get 3
gallons of wort. Then follow the
extract recipe using the reduced
amount of DME.
All Grain Instructions
Mash 4 lbs Weyermann Pilsner
Malt, 3 lbs Light Wheat with flaked
wheat increased to 2 lbs, with the
specialty malts in 2.5 gallons of
water to get a single infusion mash
temperature of 150° F for 60
minutes. Sparge with hot water of
170° F or more to get 6 gallons of
wort. Bring to boil and use the
extract hopping and fermentation
schedule using 0.75 onces bittering
hops (25% less than the extract
recipe).

all extract directions
A. If using Wyeast liquid yeast, activate the yeast 3-5 hours prior to pitching.
B. Following the cleanser package instructions, thoroughly clean and sanitize the following
using No-Rinse cleanser.
Primary Fermenter
Grommeted Lid
Airlock
Hydrometer
Heat tolerant spoon
Thermometer (to monitor water temperature)
C. Place enough water into a 4 gallon or larger pot to completely cover specialty grains and heat
to 150°. Place specialty grains in muslin grain bag and steep at 150° F for 30 minutes. DO
NOT BOIL THE GRAINS. Carefully remove the grain bag and allow it to drain into the brewpot
without squeezing. Sparge (slowly run water through) the grains with 1 gallons of 170° water.
Discard the grain filled bag.
D. If needed, add enough water to bring to 3 gallons. Add
the liquid malt extract. Bring to boil and use the
following boiling schedule.
Beginning of boil: Add bittering hops (be sure to place
the hops in the muslin hop bag). Bittering hops are
boiled for the entire 60 minutes. ****Note: If doing a full wort boil of
6 gallons for the extract or mini-mash version, reduce the bittering hops by 25% to
0.75 oz.
45 minutes into the boil: Add flavoring hops (add to
existing hop bag). Add Irish moss and ¼ oz of the Bitter
Orange Peel, ¾ tsp of the Coriander, and 1/8 tsp Cumin.
****Note: Be sure to crush spices to ensure flavor is extracted.
Flavoring hops are boiled for 15 minutes.
58 Minutes into the boil: Add finishing hops (add to
existing hop bag). Add ½ oz of the Bitter Orange Peel,
½ tsp Corriander and 1/8 tsp Cumin. ****Note: Be sure to
crush spices to ensure flavor is extracted. Finishing hops are
boiled for 2 minutes.
60 Minutes into the boil: Remove from heat. Discard the
hops.
E. Cool the wort rapidly to about 80° F and transfer to
fermenting vessel. Add enough cold water to bring wort
level to 5 gallons. ****Note: cooling can be done quickly by
placing the brewpot in the sink with ice water. Other methods are
available to the homebrewer. Ask High Gravity for advice and
instructions regarding wort cooling.
F. Sanitize a hydrometer and take the Original Gravity
reading. Write down this number for future reference. ****Note: please refer to hydrometer instructions
to adjust for temperature variation.
G. Carefully open the yeast package and pour into the wort. There is no need to stir. Secure the
lid onto the fermenter with the airlock in place (approximately half filled with clean water).
H. Place the fermenter in a warm area to maintain a temperature of 66° to 76° F. Keep the
fermenter away from sunlight and fluorescent lights. You should notice bubbling in the airlock
within 24 hours. Bubbling will slow down significantly and then stop completely after 3-10
days. ****optional: if transferring to a secondary vessel, allow the wort to remain in the primary fermenter for 3 to 7
days, then transfer to secondary vessel and let set for an additional 4-10 days before going to step I.
I. When bubbling has stopped, sanitize a hydrometer and take the Final Gravity reading. If this
reading matches the reading specified in your recipe, then go to step J. If the reading is higher
than the reading specified in your recipe, place the lid back onto the fermenter and allow the
wort to sit a few more days and repeat this step. ****Note: your Final Gravity may not match exactly. The
best way to determine whether or not your wort is finished is when the hydrometer reading is the same for 2
consecutive days.
J. Thoroughly clean and sanitize the following items using No-Rinse cleanser.
6.5 Gallon Bottling Bucket Bottle filling wand
Racking Cane Siphon Tubing
48 12 oz bottles Bottle caps
Boil bottle caps in a few cups of water for 5 minutes to sterilize.
In small saucepan dissolve priming sugar in 1 cup clean water and boil for 5 minutes. Pour into
the bottling bucket. Siphon beer from the fermenter to the bottling bucket, being sure to leave
the sediment behind. The siphoning action should thoroughly blend the wort and the priming
sugar. Fill bottles using the siphon tubing connected to the spigot at one end and the bottling
wand at the other. Bottles should be filled to one inch from the top. Cap the bottles.
Carbonate at room temperature for 2-3 weeks.
Beer is ready to drink as soon as it is carbonated but will benefit from a few months aging.

side by side other then mine is clearer and darker because of my boiling the dme lme full 60 min it tastes about the same.

i plan on getting the kit again and adjusting the dme lme boil and seeing if i can get the right color. maybe this will be my first mini-mash
 
where's the unmalted wheat? i don't want flaked wheat in my recipe.

i'm working on an all-grain and i'll also make a simple partial mash recipe, but this is not really what i'm shooting for.

the cumin is a fantastic idea, tho, i'll incorporate that.

whoops, thread hijacked :D i'll make a new thread...
 
Death,
Could you update us with the status of this beer when you brew it? I am curious about the unmalted wheat. I have heard it does great things for wheat beers but am hesitant to use it due to potentially complicated mashing.
 
Here is a recipe that I made up.

[size=-1]BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com[/size]
[size=+2]Recipe: Hoegaarden[/size]
Brewer: Matt
Asst Brewer:
Style: Witbier
TYPE: Extract
Taste: (35.0) Great tasting Wit! A summer favorite! Lacy white head that lasts and lasts.
Distinctive, light wheat beer with a hint of spice. Sweet... great color! big flavor!

Recipe Specifications



Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 3.25 gal
Estimated OG: 1.045 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: - %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
Code:
Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU      
6 lbs         Wheat Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM)            Extract      80.00 %       
8.0 oz        Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM)                  Grain        6.67 %        
8.0 oz        Oats, Malted (1.0 SRM)                    Grain        6.67 %        
8.0 oz        Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM)                   Grain        6.67 %        
1.00 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (60 min)    Hops         14.1 IBU      
0.50 oz       Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %]  (30 min)    Hops         5.4 IBU       
0.50 oz       Hallertauer [5.90 %]  (5 min) (Aroma Hop-SHops          -            
0.25 oz       Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 30.0 min)       Misc                       
0.50 tsp      Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)             Misc                       
0.50 oz       Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)        Misc                       
0.75 tsp      Coriander Seed (Boil 30.0 min)            Misc                       
1 Pkgs        Belgian Wheat Yeast (Wyeast Labs #3942)   Yeast-Wheat

Mash Schedule: None
Total Grain Weight: 1.50 lb
Code:
Steep grains as desired (30-60 minutes)
Notes:

Beersmith file View attachment hoegaarden.bsm
 
Death,
Could you update us with the status of this beer when you brew it? I am curious about the unmalted wheat. I have heard it does great things for wheat beers but am hesitant to use it due to potentially complicated mashing.

i've used the torrified wheat a small number of times and while it can be sticky, i haven't had a huge problem. looks like the protein rest will help, and i add about a pound of rice hulls.

the torrified wheat gives it a wonderful nutty wheat flavor. i recently made a hefeweizen with 60% torrified unmalted wheat and 40% 6-row. it's in the primary now. i can't wait to see how that turns out.

i may use the torrified for the hoegaarden recipe. a few places i read said that unmalted wheat indeed has to go into a cereal cooker before being used in the mash. torrified wheat is pregelatinized so it can go directly in the mash.

EDIT: and yes, when i brew this, i'll post a new thread and give updates with complete recipe information to tasting. it'll probably get brewed this weekend.
 
On a side note, they say you have to drink a glass of Hoegaarden in 3 sips :D.

Unconverted starch is key to a Wit and is what causes the 'white' affect. It also leads to the beer being very poor at keeping, so it is best drunk fresh. I sour mine as well post mash/pre-boil.
 
Death let me know how it turns out and will ya post the recipe converted to mini-mash or extract if at all possible! thank you all for the feedback i really want to clone this beer Rachael and I love it.
 
I'll make a mini-mash version and post a link to the thread here. I'll take pictures too, if i remember my camera :D

If you're new to mini-mashing, check out the link in my sig.
 
ya know, i wonder if they use something to lighten the body...i have half a mind to add a pound of flaked maize to this batch...

EDIT: looks like they may use a smaller percentage of wheat to get the lighter body. maybe i'll only go with 50% wheat and 50% pilsner...

Agreed try the 50/50 pilsner/wheat. Do a protein rest with the wheat at 122. I used 50/50 wheat malt:wheat and skipped the rest, the color and flavor are OK but not what I wanted. A separate cereal mash of the wheat with some of the pils will get you a protein rest without having to step the whole mash. I'd consider raising the temp to mash temp and then mix it in with the rest of the mash. I don't think it's necessary to boil it if you use flaked wheat. If you use crushed unmalted wheat better boil it.

WLP400 gets pretty close. My Wit has the Hoegaarden nose. Use Indian coriander, the coriander from the megamart tastes like sheeeet. Light on the coriander and the orange. 1/2oz each seems to be on the money.
 
ok, i'm gonna buy the ingredients in an hour or so. i've already got all the spices from when i did my black wit.

i was talking to my friend about the color and really pilsner has too much. i may change my mind when i talk to my main man at the shop, but i think i'm gonna go with the following:

5.5 gallon batch @ 75% efficiency (1.045 OG, 1.010 FG)

protein rest at 122°F for 30 minutes

saccarification rest at 150°F for 60 minutes

2.25 lbs belgian pilsner
2.25 lbs belgian pale
2.25 lbs white wheat
2.25 lbs torrified wheat

2 oz styrian goldings 1.9% @ 60 min
1 oz styrian goldings 1.9% @ 10 min

0.50 oz coriander
0.25 oz cumin (too much?)
0.25 oz bitter orange peel
0.25 oz sweet orange peel

WLP400

yay!
:mug:
 
Sounds like a plan.

i was talking to my friend about the color and really pilsner has too much.

:confused: Belgian Pils is 1.5L. Belgian Pale malt is 3.5L. My wit came out too dark because I used a pile of wheat malt at 3L instead of flaked/torrified wheat which is 1.5L.

EDIT: hmm 298 posts time to do some post whoring. :D
 
ok, i'm gonna buy the ingredients in an hour or so. i've already got all the spices from when i did my black wit.

i was talking to my friend about the color and really pilsner has too much. i may change my mind when i talk to my main man at the shop, but i think i'm gonna go with the following:

5.5 gallon batch @ 75% efficiency (1.045 OG, 1.010 FG)

protein rest at 122°F for 30 minutes

saccarification rest at 150°F for 60 minutes

2.25 lbs belgian pilsner
2.25 lbs belgian pale
2.25 lbs white wheat
2.25 lbs torrified wheat

2 oz styrian goldings 1.9% @ 60 min
1 oz styrian goldings 1.9% @ 10 min

0.50 oz coriander
0.25 oz cumin (too much?)
0.25 oz bitter orange peel
0.25 oz sweet orange peel

WLP400

yay!
:mug:

Looks great, but I thought WLP410 is the hoegaarden strain, not 400, any reason for using the 400 instead?
 
i can't get the 410 at my LHBS. according to this chart the 400 is the hoegaarden strain anyway.

i don't know what i was thinking about the pilsner vs. pale. i was looking at gravity points or something and got screwed up. what we were talking about was the haziness and how the pilsner/pale will take away from the haziness.
:drunk:

anyway, i went with:

4.50 lbs pilsner
2.25 lbs torrified wheat
2.00 lbs white wheat
0.25 lbs acid malt

using only a few grams of the cumin. everything else should be the same.

i need to make a starter for this batch tonight :)
 
i don't know what i was thinking about the pilsner vs. pale. i was looking at gravity points or something and got screwed up. what we were talking about was the haziness and how the pilsner/pale will take away from the haziness.
:drunk:

LOL.

anyway, i went with:

4.50 lbs pilsner
2.25 lbs torrified wheat
2.00 lbs white wheat
0.25 lbs acid malt

Sounds good. If you want to be doubly sure to get plenty of haze throw a tablespoon of flour into the boil.

:mug:

Be sure to put this one in the database so I can find it next time I get around to doing another Wit. ;)
 
i'll make a new thread with brewday notes, pix, etc. if it all works out and it truly is a hoegaarden clone (or close enough) i'll post in recipes. otherwise, i'll keep working on it ;)

*sigh* i wanted to bottle condition this, but i suppose i should keg it so we can have results in a month :D i'll bottle it when i get it perfect.
 
Mine took 3 weeks for the krausen to drop, then I bottled it and it was fully carbed in a week. Nice thing about a wheat like this, there are plenty of hungry yeast still in suspension to do the carbing quickly. ;)

This sounds so good, I might just do an Imperial version of it for Winter. hmmm.....
 
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