Saison BBD Saison Furtif

I brewed this up about 3.5 weeks ago. I modified the grain bill a bit only a pound or two so it really should not effect the final results. Well anyway I hit the 1.067 SG right on the head, but it seems to have stalled at 1.020. I had to use the WLB 565 because that is all my LHBS had and from what I have heard this is not unusually for this yeast strain. My question is should I use some other yeast to finish it up, I have a packet of Safale 05 laying around but also have been thinking about trying to use some Orval dregs to finish it up. I am still somewhat new to the hobby so any input would be great. Thanks!!!

S-05 won't dry it out like a saison should be. If you're going to repitch, then I'd do it with 3711. If you can't get that, then your only recourse is to keep it warm and wait it out.

Thanks for the quick reply. I could have my LHBS order it for me, they offered but I really didn't want to wait for it to come and make a second trip out there. So would the Orval dregs not dry it out either? The sample I pulled out tasted pretty good, I am excited to get to taste the final product:rockin: I always have made starters but have never repitched, should I make a starter if I go this route?

Orval dregs would open a whole new can o' worms and to build up a decent population from the dregs you'd have to do a stepped starter. Just pitching the dregs won't be much of a cell count. Plus, with orval dregs you're getting more than just yeast.

Just let it sit, keep it warm and maybe rouse the yeast once or twice. Or call your LHBS and ask them to order the 3711 and pick it up later. Either way is about the same really because in the time it takes for them to order it and you to pick it up and make a starter, your 565 will be slowly working away at the beer and will have made progress.

I am sort of in the same boat. My LHBS had a Saison yeast, but not 3711. I believe it was the 3724 (Belgian Saison). WyYeast says,

"This strain is notorious for a rapid and vigorous start to fermentation, only to stick around 1.035 sg. Fermentation will eventually finish, given time and warm temperatures."

At 1 week, I added sugar that had been boiled with a bit of water and citric acid - a very light belgian candy. The beer re-activated for 4 days and has now stalled.

If I racked it to the secondary fermentor, I wonder if it would "mix things up" a bit, without adding too much oxygen. Thoughts?

Next time, I am going to contact my LHBS and ask them to get 3711....

Shouldn't have transferred to secondary until it was done fermenting. Now it's gonna have real trouble getting down.

ChshreCat,

Haven't transferred it to a secondary - was a question. What do you mean by getting down? The gravity?

I am going to take a hydrometer reading, see where it sits, and maybe move it to a warmer spot.

Ahh, I misread you. I thought you had already transferred it. Yeah, I was referring to getting down to your final gravity.

Wait, keep it warm and maybe give it a gentle swirl once or twice to resuspend some of the flocculated yeast and it should eventually get down there.

Awesome - thanks. Should do the trick. Sounds like a slow yeast - not quite as robust as the 3711.

Even with the 3711, I give it a month in primary. It'll shoot from 1.067 down to 1.005 or so, then slowly tick down a few more points after that. My most recent batch is 7 weeks in primary now.

I bottled my version of the Furtif on Wednesday night. I'm calling mine Hwy 57 Farmhouse Ale. My wife's family owns a dairy farm on Hwy 57 north of Milwaukee and I've got some photos of the farm from the 1900's that will go on my label.
It spent 3 weeks in the primary and another 2.5 weeks in the secondary. The final gravity reading was 1.002. It had the finest champagne like bubbles in the hydrometer tube. I sampled the beer after the reading and it's slightly citrusy and the peppery finish seems to have mellowed since I racked it to the secondary. It's incredibly easy going down which is scary given the high alcohol. I'm figuring at least three weeks in the bottle?

mine carbed well at 3 weeks... love this recipe!

Did you have to add yeast to the bottling bucket since this is such a high % beer? This is gonna be the first saison I make and I'm pumped!

Carbs just great with no added yeast and mine hovers around 9% abv.

chshrecat said:

carbs just great with no added yeast and mind hovers around 9% abv.

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+1

This sounds incredible.

I ended up with about 4.5 gallons of beer so I used .675 cup of corn sugar to prime. I boiled that in 2 cups of water, put in a bucket, racked the beer into that and mixed very gently to combine and then bottled. I'll report back in three weeks, hopefully it's good to go.

ChshreCat said:

Carbs just great with no added yeast and mine hovers around 9% abv.

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Just wondering cuz my pliney clone seemed to kill the yeast and the beer didn't carb so I just want to make sure.

Can't wait to make this.

mine is cold crashing right now. or call it frozen crashing...Last night i taped the probe in the keezer so it would hoover up high out of the way. The digital readout read 55*. there was a lot of beer on the floor(3-22ounces of my IPA broke and somehow leaked out the drain despite being frozen causing breakage). Opened the keezer and yeah, everything including the sides of the freezer were frozen solid. Never figured the temp gradient could be so dramatic. I guess I'll need to add yeast at bottling time right?

You might, but unless the carboy was frozen solid, you're probably fine as long as you warmed it back up to a realistic temp after you found it.

So I want to brew this but not sure how to go about making a AG version of this.

Anyone have a suggestion on how I should do that using the partial mash info in the op.

IPAAAA said:

So I want to brew this but not sure how to go about making a AG version of this.

Anyone have a suggestion on how I should do that using the partial mash info in the op.

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I'd drop the LME and up the pilsner by 6 lbs.

ChshreCat said:

I'd drop the LME and up the pilsner by 6 lbs.

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So you are saying to make it like this...

11.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 37.04 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.81 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 7.41 %

What if I made it like this...

8 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 42.1 %
6 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 31.6 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 15.8 %
2 lbs Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 10.5 %

Btw...do you know how to add the Wyeast 3711 into beersmith with the correct info for it?

EDIT: Bah looks like my local brewstore doesn't carry this yeast and the place I am gonna order my hops from online doesn't either...hmm. Any good yeast substitute like a white labs version or should I just get this one online?

Your recipe won't quite be the same as mine, but I'm sure it'll be tasty too. Little less of the pilsner taste, bit more wheaty. Part of homebrewing is taking a recipe and making it your own.

IMHO... there is no substitute for Wyeast 3711. There are other saison yeast you can use, but most of them are balky and don't have the attenuation that the 3711 gives you. I'd find a shop you can get that from and get your hops and yeast there if you can.

ChshreCat said:

Your recipe won't quite be the same as mine, but I'm sure it'll be tasty too. Little less of the pilsner taste, bit more wheaty. Part of homebrewing is taking a recipe and making it your own.

IMHO... there is no substitute for Wyeast 3711. There are other saison yeast you can use, but most of them are balky and don't have the attenuation that the 3711 gives you. I'd find a shop you can get that from and get your hops and yeast there if you can.

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Very true but you have tasted yours and I haven't even made one so I want it to be good.

How would I go about making it less wheaty with that second recipe I posted. Also, do you think I should still do the pound of sugar after the fermentation like you posted in the op?

Well if you want it like mine, then just swap out the LME for 6 lbs of 2-row and keep everything else the same.

Ok. How many days into the fermentation did you pour in the pound of sugar?

I add the sugar right as the krausen starts to fall.

I dissolved the sugar in a bit of boiled water, cooled it and then added it in.

ChshreCat said:

I add the sugar right as the krausen starts to fall.

I dissolved the sugar in a bit of boiled water, cooled it and then added it in.

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I don't have a carboy so that is why I ask. O well I guess I will just watch it and see.

Thanks.

What do you ferment in?

i'm very surprised how (aside from the extract; i went AG) similar this recipe is to how mine ended up. I mean, it's totally different, but thematically it's similar.

I took my notes for my (called it Wabbit Saison!) recipe based on the Jamil Show on saison. I mashed LOW as in 147-148F. Initially i had a hefty spice bill, but after that podcast i lowered it to a total of all the spices down to 1tsp that i forgot to add at flameout and decided to toss in midway through chilling. I'll be amazed if it even has any of those spices in the flavor. Also, 7.5oz of hops to counteract the high abv once this finishes.

The yeast i chose is from East Coast Yeast and their Saison Brasserie blend. My OG was 1.077 and took off in about 6-8hrs. Had to clear the airlock twice.

Congrats on the award! I'm very jealous.

Zircon encrusted... those wouldn't be tweezers, would they?

ChshreCat said:

Zircon encrusted... those wouldn't be tweezers, would they?

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I don't get many things encrusted with zircon, but tweezers would be one of them for sure.

ChshreCat said:

Zircon encrusted... those wouldn't be tweezers, would they?

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LOL did I miss something? I still have some of these left... not many... But enjoying one now. I think the yeast is the key to this one... I'd special order if you have to. Washed mine and have some for a saison lite for the next batch... brewing lighter in color for this one (no black pat for color) just liked the dirty color on a big bear of a beer like this!

starrfish said:

LOL did I miss something?

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Only if you're not a Zappa fan.

WHY DOES IT HURT WHEN I PEE!!!

best Zappa ref I could do short notice!

Chshrecat, I definitely will be tying your saison recipe. I just bottled your Double Chocolate Oatmeal stout recipe and it was good enough to drink on bottling day. I can't wait for a couple of weeks to start popping them.

If this is anywhere near as good, I'm stoked. Thanks for the great recipes and keep them coming.

I like my oatmeal snout a lot, but this is hands down my favorite beer. I hope you like it.

To answer your other question, I don't have any problems with standard bottles and caps with this recipe.

Why is the sugar added towards the end of primary? Why not add it in the boil? Is it just to avoid caramelization or is to not confuse the yeast?

Simple sugars are easier for the yeast to digest. They don't need to make the enzymes they need to break down more complex sugars like maltose. If you give them a bunch of simple sugars right off the bat, they'll digest them more than the maltose and not produce the enzymes. It's possible to end up with a stuck ferment that way.

By adding them later, you give the yeast a chance to eat up the maltose first before you provide them with the simple sugar.