Tempted by the better bottles....

Ever since I found those scratches on the bottom of my primary carboy (so much for "you can't scratch glass carboys", I've been considering the purchase of ported Better bottle carboys. I am also getting tired of lifting the full carboys and having to sanitize the autosiphon. I think the elimination of siphoning is a great idea. It also seems like a better bottle will protect against oxygen better than a glass carboy will, because taking off the rubber stopper to rack or to perform a hydrometer reading will introduce way more oxygen to the wort than the permeability of the better bottle will.

I have a few questions about the operation of the better bottles. I read on the BB website that you can do a no oxygen transfer from carboy to carboy, and it requires CO2 gas. So, basically, you attach a tube from the top of the primary (while it's fermenting) to the valve of the secondary, which sends CO2 from the primary to the secondary, which pushes all the oxygen out of the secondary and it escapes through the airlock. Then, when it comes time to rack, you close the valve of the secondary, attach the CO2 hose to the top of the secondary's airlock, and then begin the transfer of the wort from the primary to the secondary. Is this correct?

Also, considering the better bottles are 6 gallons instead of 6.5, is a blowoff tube absolutely essential or will a airlock still work? What is the hose barb fitting used for ?

Also, where's the cheapest place to buy the better bottle products? I'd be interested in buying all the stupid and expensive little adapters for the bottles, but my homebrew shop nearby only sells the bottles (for some reason) and the prices seem to vary depending on where you go online. thanks

buckets are awesome....

I have two ported BB's, a five and a six. You'll want a blowoff for sure for the sixer if you plan on primary ferm in it. I love them. It's very easy to rack using the port(you can slip 1/2" tubing OVER the BB spigot and very quickly transfer the entire volume. I've never done the CO2 transfer because gravity is so easy.

They are VERY easy to clean, usually just a few rinses with soap and water does it, this is also aided by the larger neck. Also, if you're into dry hopping, the larger neck really helps when you're trying to get the wet muslin bag of hops out.

I've purchased mine from Austin Homebrew(b/c of their shipping deal). I'd say go for it, although be warned, you're near $50 by the time you buy all of the various gadgets involved.

Its hard to beat a 6.5 gallon glass carboy that wont scratch for
$21.00 as long as you don't drop it.....

I got my bottles from Hops and Dreams: http://brewbyu.com/cgi-bin/miva?Merchant2/merchant.mv+Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=PETCARB
and the accessories from Midwest: http://www.midwestsupplies.com/products/site_search.aspx?SearchStr=better bottle

I use a 1/2 inch OD hose fitted into the o-ring on the standard closure as a blowoff. I've heard recent sucess stories of greatly reducing the krauesen "head" using Fermcap, but my only attempt at using a conventional airlock and an orange carboy cap on my primary resulted in popping off the cap and putting the airlock into orbit. I haven't tried the fermentation CO2 purge of the secondary. (Too much hassle moving the whole setup around for me) I now use my kegging CO2 to do the purges. I used to use one of the bicycle tire CO2 inflators to purge the setup. You can use the large tubing over the racking port, but I could never get rid of the bubbles in the tubing during racking. Using the smaller diameter tubing inside the racking port slows down the flow, but immediately purges all bubbles out of the line.

Bob Loblaw said:

buckets are awesome....

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+1 I use buckets as primaries, but I don't secondary my beer.

I would recommend buckets with spigots as primaries and 5 gallon Better Bottles as secondaries. No siphoning needed to the secondary and no blow off tubes needed for the primary. Much cheaper system too.

Brew-boy said:

Its hard to beat a 6.5 gallon glass carboy that wont scratch for
$21.00 as long as you don't drop it.....

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They DO scratch.

Brew Dude said:

They DO scratch.

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I would think that is more of a defect in the glass. How can a soft brush scratch glass?

The better bottles rock, I love the racking arm and valve set up.
Buy them soon, they are in the process of a new price increase "mid April" I was told.

EdWort said:

+1 I use buckets as primaries, but I don't secondary my beer.

I would recommend buckets with spigots as primaries and 5 gallon Better Bottles as secondaries. No siphoning needed to the secondary and no blow off tubes needed for the primary. Much cheaper system too.

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+1 To Ed. I'm really moving in this direction. I'm terrified by moving full glass carboys......even siphoning them down to reduce weight/risk is a PITA. I have glass and BB's. The betterbottles are great. I used my carboy brush on them hardcore before reading about the risk of infection from scratches on this forum. I've never had an infection after using an oxyclean soak and light brushing on the krausen ring in a BB.....but the neck is a PITA to get past when cleaning. Now, I'm realizing that buckets are half the price, have an awesome handle, and are easy to drain with a spigot.Way easier to clean too. I usually bulk ferment for a full month before racking to keg, and I see nothing wrong with doing this in a bucket. Don't be intimidated by what others say is the "best" method....I bet you could make championship beer in buckets.....

Buckets to kegs. It can't get simpler.

I sold my carboys when I moved, and will be going with EdWort's bucket-to-keg system. Thought about picking up a BB for those beers that I want to "secondary", but I can't think of anything I could do with a BB that I can't do with a corny keg.

Yea, I ferment in buckets too!! I have never entered a competition, but my beer usually tastes really good I ferment for usually 3-4 weeks in a bucket and bottle/keg.

I have always been leary of fermenting with a bucket and spigot though....but heck if EdWort does it, i might too....I hate siphoning even though it's really easy with the autosiphon.

Bucket and Better +....5(I think)

I secondary just because I usually re-use a yeast cake a couple of times, and it doesn't hurt.


GLASS LOVERS: TO EACH THEIR OWN, BUT I WILL NEVER GO BACK TO GLASS.

I think you all are becoming outnumbered, or you soon will be...so let's fight!!!

Ed Wort - When you first open the spigot, how often is a yeast glob the first thing to come out? I've always wanted to just drain with the spigot but was afraid of transferring to much yeast into the keg so I siphon.

I have already removed the word secondary from my vocabulary and I am now just going to double my primary time and then go right into a keg.

Has anybody ever tried using gravity to drain from the bucket and into the liquid out tube of a keg? If you locked the vent open during this process it would simplify some of the sanitization and keep more of the CO2 in the keg during the transfer. I always worry that the exterior of my hose will touch a counter top or something that isn't clean and then I unkowingly stick it inside the keg.

Linc

missing link said:

Ed Wort - When you first open the spigot, how often is a yeast glob the first thing to come out? I've always wanted to just drain with the spigot but was afraid of transferring to much yeast into the keg so I siphon.

I have already removed the word secondary from my vocabulary and I am now just going to double my primary time and then go right into a keg.

Has anybody ever tried using gravity to drain from the bucket and into the liquid out tube of a keg? If you locked the vent open during this process it would simplify some of the sanitization and keep more of the CO2 in the keg during the transfer. I always worry that the exterior of my hose will touch a counter top or something that isn't clean and then I unkowingly stick it inside the keg.

Linc

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Yea, i wonder that as well...is the bottling bucket spigot high enough to avoid the sludge?

missing_link, the word secondary is misleading!! It really should be called clearing. All fermentation should take place in the primary. I got a few people into homebrewing at my work, and they are obsessed with the "secondary". They transfer way to early every single time. I keep telling them, WAIT!!!!!! but they don't. O well. At least they are homebrewing.

I tried to rack from my bucket spigot once, but the spigot itself was separating at the meld point, which resulted in beer fizzing out in all directions. Unless better spigots are available, I'm sticking with auto-siphoning. I'm also curious to find out how you avoid getting trub when you use the spigot.

Brew-boy said:

Its hard to beat a 6.5 gallon glass carboy that wont scratch for
$21.00 as long as you don't drop it.....

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Show me how you port one.

EdWort said:

Buckets to kegs. It can't get simpler.

Click to expand...

What's with the red light? Are you developing film at the same time? Do you run the Bee Cave brothel?

missing link said:

Ed Wort - When you first open the spigot, how often is a yeast glob the first thing to come out? I've always wanted to just drain with the spigot but was afraid of transferring to much yeast into the keg so I siphon.

Click to expand...

I crash cool my buckets to about 37 degrees. This compacts the yeast into a nice firm cake that is pretty solid. When I go to rack to a keg, I spray the spigot with starsan a couple times over a 3 minute period. It drains into my gray Rubbermaid Bus Pan below. After it is sanitized, I pull the airlock, then gently open the spigot and draw off about 2 ounces. The yeast resting in the spigot comes out, then the rest is clear. I then pull off a hydrometer jar sample before connecting a short length of sanitized 3/8" silicone hose. I lower the hose into the keg before pushing it on to the spigot. It is cut to fit right to the bottom and because it is silicone, it does not curl. The keg has been purged with CO2, so splashing inside is not an oxidation risk.

I do all my beers this way and it has worked very well for me. Beers are clear and tasty. The only time I use my Auto Siphon is for my Apfelwein which is in Better Bottles.

blacklab said:

What's with the red light? Are you developing film at the same time? Do you run the Bee Cave brothel?

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Adds a certain Je-ne-sais-quoi to the ambience, doesn't it.

Acutally, I forgot to hit the autoexposure on the camera.

EdWort said:

I crash cool my buckets to about 37 degrees. This compacts the yeast into a nice firm cake that is pretty solid. When I go to rack to a keg, I spray the spigot with starsan a couple times over a 3 minute period. It drains into my gray Rubbermaid Bus Pan below. After it is sanitized, I pull the airlock, then gently open the spigot and draw off about 2 ounces. The yeast resting in the spigot comes out, then the rest is clear. I then pull off a hydrometer jar sample before connecting a short length of sanitized 3/8" silicone hose. I lower the hose into the keg before pushing it on to the spigot. It is cut to fit right to the bottom and because it is silicone, it does not curl. The keg has been purged with CO2, so splashing inside is not an oxidation risk.

I do all my beers this way and it has worked very well for me. Beers are clear and tasty. The only time I use my Auto Siphon is for my Apfelwein which is in Better Bottles.

Click to expand...

Ah, crash cooling.

Have you ever done it without crash cooling? Reason I ask is because I was thinking of using this method and going right to bottles.

Wait, Im an idiot. I forgot about priming. I would still need to go to another bottling bucket....but still this would be easier than siphoning. And the second bottling bucket would have more room at the bottom for any sludge that gets transferred.

I forgot to crash cool once and still, if you disgard the first couple ounce, the yeast cake should stay pretty compacted. Any yeast gets to settle in my kegs as it would in a secondary.